Gator

Lever missed rounds 1 and 2 with a hamstring.

Adelaide knew Lever wasn't staying before the finals started. They still chose to select him to represent the AFC on their biggest day. To say that we'll select you for a GF, even though we know you're leaving, but we'll then block you from turning up to the B&F is about as small minded as you can get. That's why it's a plastic club.

What do you expect from a club that took back Jack Gunston's Mark Bickley award after he told them he wanted a trade. http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/crows-stripped-gunston-of-award/news-story/c710d976b084a311027f22c1cbd9dbf4

I didn't include Scully, because there were exemptions when GWS and Gold Coast entered the competition. Adelaide lost Davis, Footscray Ward, us the Rodent. So different circumstances, even if just as galling from a MFC point of view.

Whether it be Cameron Mooney, Leigh Matthews, or Dwayne Russell, many in the media are complaining about Jake Lever's decision to leave the Crows after just 3 years. I won't bother mentioning Scott Thompson, and I recognise there are some differences with his move, but what about Josh Caddy leaving the Suns after just two years ? He was pick 7 in the 2010 draft and wanted out after his two year contract was up. Not a word in the media. I know there will be other examples, but it appears there's selective outrage in the AFL industry.

Frost is a chronic fumbler.

I never said I was perfect.

I rejected it because I've seen him run around like a plonker when he's started forward at the beginning of games. Maybe you have a poor memory, but McDonald started forward in a couple of games with Roos and was shouse. He's always been better when it's happened mid game and there's been an element of surprise. This happened under Roos a couple of times (mid game) and it was ok when Goodwin tried. I was still skeptical he could be a quality permanent key forward after the West Coast game. Even now I'm not totally sold, but the evidence is mounting. I'm not sure even McDonald thought he could be a quality key forward tall a month ago. Anyway, enough. You're boring.

"I'm still not convinced Tom will be able to keep up his strong performances in the forward-line, but I'm a lot more open-minded than I was 3 weeks ago. I'd be silly to ignore the evidence."

OK, this is what I said,: "There is, of course, the question of what to do with the McDonalds and Frost if we were lucky enough to recruit Lever. My guess is that Frost would be traded. Oscar is developing well and at 197cms he has a tonne of physical development left. Splitting up the brothers is also problematic." This comment was made before Tom McDonald morphed into Peter Hudson on the weekend, where balls mysteriously landed in his hands in marking contests and he slotted goals that were once beyond his pay grade. To me, there wasn't much point securing Lever and retaining the aforementioned players when we also have the 191cm high leaping Joel Smith, who is also thereabouts. Has the weekend changed my views ? Yes, to an extent. Imo, Oscar and Frost have both been better without Tom down back with them. I don't like all three in the backline together due to their kicking skills out of defence*, plus, we now have enough evidence to suggest Oscar and Sam have grown without Tom. It's been win/win. I'm still not convinced Tom will be able to keep up his strong performances in the forward-line, but I'm a lot more open-minded than I was 3 weeks ago. I'd be silly to ignore the evidence. I agree with the need for outside speed and I agree the need for Lever is less than it was a month ago. But gee, Lever will be a star. *There is kicking and there is kicking. Oscar and Frost are becoming reasonably reliable in that they usually hit easy targets, but there is no flair or creativity in their kicking and I still have concerns with them under pressure or their ability to hit a difficult kick that's required at the right time and moment.

It's not wrong and it's certainly not disrespectful. If Melbourne wants Lever, and we're reported to be very keen, list management requires most people on the list being discussed as potential trades. The club will be looking at TMac's best long-term position; whether OMac, TMac, and Frost work together in the same back-line; how to fit Lever into that mix; how the high leaping Joel Smith fits in; etc. They don't look in isolation and get offended when a name is mentioned as possible trade bait. They look at all the permutations and discuss what is the best eventual outcome as they take into account the current player mix. Also, this seems to be needed to be clarified, if you throw up a player's name as potential trade bait it doesn't 'necessarily' mean you don't rate that player as highly, or more highly, as someone who doesn't want said person traded. That may be difficult for some to understand. For me it's nothing personal. It's about making us better and closer to a flag.

If we don't have a defence of Tom, Oscar, Frost and Lever then I wouldn't trade Frost either. Remember, I posted before Tom morphed into Peter Hudson.

Boy he goes to ground a lot.

OK mate.

Oscar McDonald wasn't up to it, which is why he was dropped. I've not overly complained about them getting games into him. And he's improved as a result. I'm for getting games into young developing players, which is why I've been for getting games into Weideman. Pedersen has been fantastic. I still don't rate him as a stay at home key forward and I suspect the club doesn't either. It will be interesting to see how his role develops for the remaining of the year. Watts finally pulled his finger out, which only vindicated my views of his hopeless years. Even then, I believe he has much more to give. Here's the thing and perhaps where we differ, I'm not fussed who rates my opinion or doesn't rate my opinion. Who cares ?

I couldn't disagree more. It would be a hopeless structure. I also said you can't have the kicking skills of the McDonalds and Frost together coming out of the backline. Let's not keep going around in circles. Clearly our footy views are polar opposite.

You put an argument, but I gave it short shrift. You said, "A back six of Hibberd, Jetta, Frost, the McDonalds, and Lever looks pretty damn good." I don't see a back 6 that includes 194cm, 194cm, 195cm and 197cm. It's way too tall. I don't see a back 6 with the McDonalds and Frost by themselves let alone them with the acquisition of Lever. It would be diabolical. And wouldn't happen. The McDonalds and Frost are suspect kicks under pressure. Imo, you can't have the three of them in the back-line together. Kicking in the back half is super important. I can see a back 6 that includes Hibberd, Hunt, Jetta, the McDonalds and Lever. That works for me. We often play a 7 man defence, so fitting Smith in would also work. If and I know it's a big if and probably unlikely, but if Lever came to the club I see Frost as the logical player to make way. Hunt and Smith, who is just as fast, more than make up for what Frost brings to the table.

No worries. I like to argue logically and dispassionately and I realise that's a bridge too far for most supporters. Thankfully, our list management committee will work through scenarios like me and not like you. Btw, there is room for sentiment, but for a player like Frost, who is already at his second club, and with obvious deficiencies in his game, he becomes expendable for the greater good. As for Smith becoming a mid ? I haven't seen enough, but on early viewings I don't agree. He's never trained as a mid and he's been developed as a back. He's getting into the 22 as a back. It's nothing more than wishful thinking to assume he'll become a mid. When I was at a supporters forum with Brendan McCartney in October 2016 he was asked for his best longterm team. He slotted Joel Smith into a back pocket. They rate him highly as a courageous and fast line breaking defender. As for Jones ? Perhaps you're not as keen, because you're a hoarder. It's easier to pass on Jones if you don't want to give up what you've got. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you or I think, what if the club is keen on Jones ? What if the club is keen on Lever ? How do YOU get those deals done ?

I don't see it at all.

How about in attempt to win a flag and build a dynasty ? So you think all of Hibberd, Jetta, Hunt, Frost, Joel Smith, the McDonalds, and Lever can all play in the same side ? All play their best footy in defence. All are best behind the ball, which is an easier position to play. And all won't fit. Also, how do you plan on securing both Lever and Jones if it was feasible to do so. It's a hypothetical, but one the club would love to be in a position to enact. Hogan, Weideman, and Watts are the future in the forward-line. Trying to convert Tom into a forward is unnecessary and not his best position. And he won't be needed there.

Tom isn't going to be a key forward long-term. He's done OK, but he's not a natural forward and will revert to defence in 2018 and beyond. Lever is still physically developing as a 21 year old defender, but he's 195cms. He's brilliant at intercept marking and his best position is in defence. He'd be the general in defence, wherever he plays, for a decade. Trying to turn him into a mid isn't going to happen. Yes, injuries occur, but assuming they're all fit and firing they're not all going to be in the best 22. If one has very good value and could be used in a trade you do the deal to get a player like Lever. If there's a possibility to land both he and Jones something has to fall from the tree. Adelaide and Sydney will want very good compensation, so what would you propose ? Frost would go a long way to securing Jones, which allows first round pick/s to secure Lever.

I know, which is why he has value. No point stockpiling what you have an abundance of. If it looked like we were Lever's preferred club should he decide he wants to shift back to Victoria then all of Tom McDonald, Oscar McDonald, Frost, Lever, and Joel Smith is at least one too many and potentially two. And I don't see the McDonalds being split up. So what is your solution if we were a chance to secure Lever ?