mo64

51 minutes ago, binman said:

Great post. 

The game plan and method we came into to the finals  with was significantly different to that used in 2021 and the first half of 2022. 

The last third of the season  really only the freo game 'looked' like a Melbourne game.

I suspect that change was equal part a response to what the opposition were doing better (both in terms of negating us and their model) and mitigation against our issues.

We played much more aggressively, particularly in first halves and as you suggest leaked goals as a result. 

In simple terms, the approach seemed to be get a big enough lead by half time and then hang on for dear life.

I reckon the biggest change was that we  stopped using tempo control. 

 

What games were you watching? In the finals we conceded more goals in the 2nd halves when we were passive.

And we never used tempo control in 2021. It was all about getting it forward quickly and locking it in, or long down the line and get a stoppage. Nothing changed from 2021 to 2022.

56 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

I get that people are frustrated and disappointed right now, but if you think we didn’t try new tactics and structures through the second half of the year you weren’t watching very closely.

 Changing a method as drilled and dependent on positioning as ours mid season is very difficult. When we Implemented changes to put some speed on the ball, our defensive structures broke down behind the ball and we leaked goals.

 When we changed from 2 talls and a resting ruck to one tall and a defensive forward Brown became ineffective due to the blanketing he got from defenders. We should have been able to leverage the extra pressure forward to lock the ball in, and often we did, but our kicking inefficiency made that look like a fail also.

 We rotated a number of options through the second wing through the second half of the year but none of them really worked.

We tried plenty of things, mostly they fixed some things while breaking others. We will need to make a few changes to the team in the off season and rework our method thinking about all 3 phases of the game rather than just trying to fix the attacking  phase. I think Goody was saying loud and clear that he and the FD are on it.

Totally disagree. For starters, Goody continually embraced our imperfections at the start of the season because we were winning. Once we came up against better teams, our wastefulness came back to haunt us.

We continued the game plan of kicking into the forward pocket even when we were in total control. The scoreboard never reflected our dominance.

The only time I can remember us trying to quickly transition the ball out of our backline was in the dying stages of the Carlton game, when Hunt basically changed the game.

You are correct that Brown became ineffective as the lone key forward, so why not trial JVR? 

Our defensive structures fell apart in the 2nd half of games because our defensive pressure dropped off. And most of that was due to our lack of forward pressure. What were Neal Bullen and Spargo doing in the team if they can't apply defensive pressure?

2 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

We are not gonna give up a lot for Grundy. Chances we could get the dogs and Freo's first pick for Jackson. We use the dogs pick to pick a key forward and use Freo's pick on Grundy as long as we are paying half his wage. That would be a good deal IMO.

For starters, the Pies aren't going to pay half of Grundy's contract for 5 years ($500k pa). Secondly, giving up a 1st rd pick on a player who struggled in 2021 and basically missed all of 2022 through injury is insanity. He is not a current AA player, so his deeds in the past are irrelevant. 

The Pies need a majority of Grundy's contract off their books in order to get the players they have targeted. The fact that they see Grundy as being surplus to their needs is telling. He's a salary dump, and we are reportedly his only suitor. A token pick is all we should be giving up.

Simon, you are stating the bleeding obvious. You talk about our inefficiency going forward, and yet the coaching dept failed to change the game plan or personnel required to address things. That's on you and the rest of the coaching dept.

And I'd like to know how pursuing Grundy addresses our "vulnerabilities". Lack of sustained forward pressure was an obvious vulnerability, so how does the plan of having Gawn or Grundy resting forward address that?

7 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

I'm just going to dig this up to play devils advocate and ask a question of demonlanders:

Would you prefer to 1 up the Pies and do a Swans-Buddy move by chasing McStay, Instead of going after Grundy? And looking elsewhere for a backup replacement ruck.

Pro's: Actual forward craft and experience.  Unrestricted free agent ie no cost - Keep our 2 first round picks

Cons: Costly if 600k-700k a year so its a big risk, Not a viable long term backup ruck option

 

I eagerly await your response, and facepalms.

 

McStay is a far better fit than Grundy, but he'll probably want a 4 year deal on $600k-$700. So it's a no for McStay, and a no for Grundy.

3 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Weird has shown plenty the last couple of games as a ruck forward.

Be interested to see him played in that role for the pre season and into next. Just might be his future role at AFL level.

Couldn’t play him, Tmac and Brown in the same forward line but you could play him Tmac and JVR who has a lot more mobility and much better below his knees

No you can't. Weid is not a 3rd tall forward at AFL level.

And your pregame spiel on JVR was off the mark. We played 3 banged up talls in BBB, Gawn and Jackson, and none of them could give 100% effort across the whole game. Regardless of the level of play, JVR gives effort every time you see him. And I don't see how JVR is any different to Jye Amiss, who made an impact for Freo in a final.

4 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Weids been huge today and capping off his afternoon with two contested grabs and a goal. Ruck/forward will be his way back into the team going forward .

The ruckwork of T Mac and JVR when up forward has me thinking that Max plays 85% game time as a pure ruckman, and T Mac and JVR could share the other 15%. Ditch the idea of playing Max up forward. 

I've liked how Weid has developed as a ruckman, but he's not good enough as an AFL forward.

3 minutes ago, smiFFy said:

its a joke we played Hunt ahead of Bowey

Hunt earnt his spot. Rivers and Salem were poor in both finals.

2 minutes ago, Click_Bate said:

I’d be comfortable with Tomlinson back in. Turner could be one pre season away from exploding as well. He’s looked great all year at VFL. 
 

Geez that forward line does sound refreshing!

I'd had Turner ahead of Tomlinson. Most of the damaging AFL key forwards are either mobile (Curnow, Cameron, Naughton, Hipwood, Daniher, Riewoldt, McKay) or beasts {Lynch, Hawkins). Tomlinson is a straight ahead player with poor agility. I don't see him as an AFL defender any more.

Just now, ElDiablo14 said:

And Fritsch, Kozzy and Spargo?

Leave Spargo out. We can do better than him. If Bowey can't break into our backline, I'd rather have him playing whatever role Spargo plays. Bowey is better in every facet of the game.

Mitch White is so important in conditions like this.

Baker, lol. JVR goal after all that.

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Kane Cornes on SEN this morning reckons there's some talk from SA clubs that Pickett is a bit of a watch this space.

 

Adelaide have Rachelle and now Rankine. Fail to see how or why the Crows could get him this year. I'm sure Port are putting out the feelers, but I'd refuse to trade him. 

So in 2 finals we've lost to a team with a journeyman ruckman in Hickey, and a team missing their regular ruck combination of McInerney and Daniher. 

If we give up cap space for 5 years, and a decent pick for Grundy, we have seriously lost the plot.

1 minute ago, 1964_2 said:

Hard to kick straight, when you are usually attacking from the pocket.

the “method” is broken. Don’t expect them to acknowledge it externally, but do expect them to acknowledge and deal with it internally. A new method is required on top of the gaps such as a CHF, and players with foot skills and smarts.
 

Two of the more laughable things happened in the 1st quarter when we were well on top. ANB marks 35m out directly in front, and passes it to Langdon on a worse angle. Langdon kicked the goal, but the thinking was idiotic. Then Jackson has a free on half forward and passes it to a leading Gawn in the forward pocket, and the ball spills out of bounds. This is symptomatic of our method and thought process.

1 hour ago, Webber said:

Two associated salient facts that beg for explanation - 

1. On a ladder of ‘second half only’ results from Round 11, we came 16th, above only North and West Coast. This is frankly staggering considering how obvious and contrary it is to fact 2.
2. Ladder of first halves for same Rounds, top 4. 
 
Which confirms the following. Firstly, many of the factors people are blaming for our season demise are simply not a problem in the first half of those games - skill, pressure, forward connection, etc. Secondly, something went drastically and horribly awry in our planning and processes for the second half of the season to be a bottom 3 performer in second halves of games. 
 

Anyone any theories? And I’d beware making statements about fact 1 that are contradicted by fact 2. 

I have a theory, and I don't think that fitness levels has anything to do with it. 

Our game plan revolves around winning contests and locking the ball into our forward 50. It requires an enormous amount of effort on the part of the mids and the forwards. With the talent we have, we build up a sizeable lead and yet invariably concede late goals before half time. The scoreboard at half time rarely reflects our dominance.

At half time Goody addresses the players and tells them that we have the game on our terms. The opposition coaches of better sides will tell their players that it's impossible for Melbourne to continue at that intensity, and a 3-4 goal deficit is not insurmountable.

Once the opposition get within a goal or two in the second half, it's almost game over. But I think it's more psychological than physical. 

I honestly believe that our players are not fully invested in our negative game plan, because they are not getting scoreboard reward for effort. Once that opposition have neutralised the game around the contests and the scoreboard, it all becomes too hard for our players to go again.

The players have an ego/arrogance after winning last years flag. But they're coached to defend rather than show their talents. I think the players have lost the motivation to grind a game for 120 minutes on the back of the 2021 flag.

Coaches like Paul Roos and Ross Lyon have limited shelf life at one club. Their game plans are too mentally gruelling on the players. If Goodwin wants a long tenure at the Dees, he needs to look at John Longmire, who's evolved from a negative coach to a positive coach. He's weeded out the "try hards" from the team, and replaced them with skilful players who also give effort. 

And after listening to all of the Burgess/Brukner podcasts in that last off-season, Burgo's role in the mental side of the game cannot be understated.

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Why wasn't Kozzie pressuring him like he did in our two wins against them this year?

ANB played on Rich last time.

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

C'mon, selection wouldn't have changed the result. We were completely outplayed in the 2nd half, same as last week.

I'm not talking about the past 2 weeks. We failed to address T Mac's absence. We had the chance to either experiment with Petty up forward or play JVR. Consistent performers at VFL level like Dunstan and Chandler weren't rewarded. We persisted with ANB and Spargo, when they were giving us little. 

The whole team seemed to lack energy in the 2nd half of the season. Some players were banged up. Maybe some fresh faces could have lit the spark. But the match committee and coaches stuck with the same players and game plan which continually failed against the better sides.

8 minutes ago, Docs Demons said:

Come on mo4 I realise our forward entries aren't the best but (i would love to swear here) how many times did Jacko and that useless all arms and legs bloke named Brown  had chances to mark and were weak as P

I agree with Jackson, but BBB is being asked to do more than he's physically capable of. He's basically playing his role from last year and TMac's role. At one stage in the 1st half he was at half back. He tends to start the game well but tires in the 2nd half. 

9 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

One mark in a semi final.

One

Does that make him a "unicorn"?

14 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

Did we get a free forward of centre after half-time? 

HQ want Cats in the GF. They have an easy kill now.

You complain about the umpires after every loss. How about analysing the performance of the players and coaches for a change? You might find the real reasons for our losses.

Where are all the posters who slagged off anyone who dared criticise the match committee or coaches? Blind Freddy could see that our 2 finals losses were on the cards, based on our form during the 2nd half of the season.

I'm not upset. I'm angry. 

5 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

It's the forward line...

Barely anything presenting ever

Rubbish. It's the game plan. Do you think the key forwards like leading into the pocket, or having the ball kicked on their head?

But we need mid sized forwards who do more than ANB, Spargo and Sparrow.

1 minute ago, adonski said:

Good bounce back game from ANB, didn't see it coming

Petty just huge

Again it's evident we need more runners & classy ball users as much as another key forward option. Two of the worst games you'll ever see from Sparrow & Rivers tonight

 

I thought Spargo was even worse, but then again that was his stock standard performance. 

4 minutes ago, Fanatique Demon said:

If Jackson leaves we might be better off.  How can you be a third year AFL player who can’t take a one grab mark? He might as well take Rivers with him. Bowey is far better. 

Not if we waste a pick on Grundy.