Machsy

Last year in his first season, Chad Wingard, (a player that Toumpas has been frequently compared to pre-draft, although I don't necessarily agree) statistically had: - 5 games with only 6 disposals - 9 games with 11 or less disposals - 16 games with 16 or less disposals He really didn't set the world on fire, and I'd say some of his games were very average. He also wasn't coming off surgery on both hips. But look at him now. It really will be a great surprise if he is not All Australian.

Another thread that'll be hilariously bumped in a couple of years...

I don't think Betts works hard enough defensively. I think he is one of the players holding Carlton back, and we don't want that.

You sure Toumpas isn't the Cotchin of the draft, while Wines isn't the Rhys Palmer? We could make these stupid ill-informed comparisons all day.

Sometimes 2 players are different types of players, develop at different rates, and are both very good. Sometimes you need 1 type a lot more than the other. Sometimes supporters are impatient, ignorant and wear blinkers.

A bit simplistic - Strauss can kick a footy like Toumpas, if not better.

Not at all. Since Jack Viney and Ollie Wines would essentially perform the same role, one would be missing out on games at the expense of the other. Are we maybe jumping the gun in proclaiming a first year drafted to be a relative failure? With Viney, our needs dictated that our pressing need was another "elite" (at junior level) user of the footy. Wines is not that. It's possible Wines is better at this strengths than we originally perceived, but that says nothing of his weaknesses. At the same time, Toumpas has more of the "hard to find" attributes that should make him a success in the future. I thought as football supporters we were smart enough not to judge kids on their output in their first season?

This post is embarrassing for you.

Yes, and B-H is clearly saying: "I was right, then I changed my mind and I was wrong, but I was right in the beginning, so I am right. And my opinion now is different to then, but that is also correct. No disrespect, but I don't respect you."

He wouldn't be right if he agreed with you, he'd just be agreeing with you.

The poor kid's initial reaction was to blamed himself for Neeld's sacking. He felt his limited output thus far contributed to it. That care factor, and placing the responsibility on himself rather than looking for scapegoats, holds him in very good stead.

Big man. Pretty quick to make outlandish claims about a kid, then feverishly try to back it up at every opportunity so you can feel justified. You'll be the one looking stupid in time, if you don't already.

Blame it on the AFL for choosing to use incorrect and confusing terminology when naming their "rookie list."

It's all relative, isn't it? Who is better - Luke Ball or Dal Santo? What if you already have Joel Selwood, Brett Kirk and Ollie Wines in your midfield? Alternatively, what if you already have Daniel Wells, Stephen Hill and Brett Deledio in your midfield? Horses for courses, people. Toumpas was the correct choice.