dpositive

4 hours ago, picket fence said:

Well I have been going for a Loooong time, but after todays insipid effort and that of the last 4 weeks and the coach banging on about "Learnings, Culture, Strong Response, after today I won't attend another game, Why?? because we do not back up our words with Deeds and this is as bad as the Bailey years, Neeld years and even further back 70 and 71!! Im also over Goodwin and his "We're Hurting" Pigs [censored], we are as soft and vanilla as they come. Oh and sorry landers no more P.F Training reports sorry. Really disgusted today!

Seething that this thug was allowed a free reign and continued to bully us Shame MFC , SHAME!!

understand and accept your rection PF. I will certainly miss your training reports.

I often queried from, all if our training sessions were conducted with vigour and intensity and usually received affirmation,. I dont think our players are soft or weak and today I saw plenty of examples from our players that would defy those descriptors.

I do however say that the outcomes of our players are dictated by the officiating bodies. The lenience on Maynard at tribunal level sent a message to the umpires, dont penalise Collingwood players. 

Collingwood players aware of this status can play harder and with more brutality confident that they will not be penalised. Melbourne players know that if they play with vigour they will be scrutinised and penalised, JVR was penalised early on in his career, Kossie has also been penalised for less vigour than Collingwood players used today. WE play cautiously as that is what we have been dictated. Collingwood can play with abandon because they are allowed to.

The Club does need to adress this at the highest level. I have been saying for many years we need to get the umpires on board, perhaps share our training facilities but definitely paying them to attend our training and tell us what we are doing wrong when applying vigorous tackles.

I think the umpires do a great job, but soft frees to our opponents which are there are paid while we seem to only get the blatant obvious  hard frees. Im disgruntled and I know many other supporters who are aware of and disgusted with the disparity in equity in free kicks. That games are now being decided by obvious blunders is highlighting this fact  so something might be done, but i wont hold my breath

1 hour ago, SPC said:

Might be time to pay out a senior coach and some assistants and bring in some fresh eyes. Start moving on to a new game style and recruit those who can implement it. Would much rather see a direction, than treading water like we are now. Need a skills coach and goal kicking coach plus forward coach and midfield coach, that’s where we should start. 

Wanted to unlike as I didnt actually agree with all of this. Dont wan to pay out , but dp want to bring in fresh eyes.

Dont want to change everything about the game style. We did have more scoring shots after all.

Would like to have the the direction reinforced so the players display it all the time.

Goal kicking seems to be the most obvious issue. Some of that is skill and technique. Some would also appear to be midfield and forward coaching structures and connections between the two.  

WE need to start by the coaches working out why they are not getting the most out of the list we have.  players with less skill or less resilience do hav eto have their role known. They are not  all Max Trac Clarrie etc they nned to create space and smother tackle and shepherd so those players can perform their best.

11 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Just because Angus had football taken away from him by concussion doesn't mean he wants to spend his time being a  'concussion ambassador'.

Maybe he's always wanted to learn the cello. Or be a travel show host.

True probably the last thing he might want to do. 

Can only be resolved by having the conversation with him which I am sure someone is doing.

Im sure if he wanted to play cello or be a travel show host he would do it thoroughly and well. He has shown so much dedication and effort to be the best he will succeed in whatever path he engages in.

3 hours ago, Superunknown said:

The Stasi AFL will never let it happen

Ever

our cheer squad can’t put anything in our banner that doesn’t fit the official diktat

 

 

Yes as i stated earlier somewhere, we take the initiative and appoint him as the club Concussion Ambassador.

Force the AFL to acknowledge and recognise the problem.

I know it would not be easy but should be discussed when Gus is ready.

On 25/05/2024 at 11:42, fr_ap said:

Honestly this is getting uselessly academic & tiresome. At best, game styles are almost entirely aspirational and depend on what each opposition brings. Add in the randomness of 36 on-ground individuals making distinct and random decisions, as well as external factors like weather and umpires...you get the drift. Some sports have narrower guardrails by their nature - we are pretty free form.

Imo the point of the 'gamestyle' isn't to dictate how and when we execute plays -  but is moreso about imbuing principles - contest, defence, tempo - that players can remember and execute in split second decisions in the heat of battle. 

For a few years there, our principles were strong and clear and suited the strengths of our key players and role players. We also established really high standards and fostered a culture that maintained this. The list build was informed by these principles and standards, and so we were in sync at all levels - AFL through to VFL. 

To take advantage of this, we had several of the best players in the AFL in key positions, and some pretty good players in other positions too. Ultimately this is the most important thing. The best players will always control who wins games. 

Following the flag, the culture and standards started to fall away, and crucially we've recruited individuals who were not suited to our principles (Hunter, Schache, Billings, Fullarton). A lot of our 'very good' players who's strengths agreed to our principles (Brayshaw, Hibberd) either retired, regressed (Sparrow, Bowey, Brown, Mcdonald) or left the club (Harmes, Jordon, Jackson, Bedford). All these guys had flaws, but were strong at our principles. We've replaced them with players who have some other strengths, but don't align to the Melbourne principles. They become weak links in the chain.

Most importantly, the remaining players who embodied our principles the most (Viney & Oliver) have fallen off a cliff for different reasons.

We look so unrecognisable because our contest is gone. We're no longer winning more than our share of critical contests - bottom 4 at clearances, bottom 10 at contested footy. Our tackling is weak. 

This is not the fault of the coaching staff, who showed they could build the environment and a set of principles that can be successful. It's way too easy to blame our issues on a "gamestyle". 

Our window is over because of our recruiting and list building since the flag, which has been probably the worst of any team in the comp. Other than Windsor this year, we have not added a single player who has added positively to the team. Not a single one. 

There has been plenty of quality on the market in positions we needed. We either can't identify it, can't attract it, or couldn't pay for it because we've locked up so many on long term contracts. 

Why Tim Lamb gets love around here is beyond me - he's done a horrendous job. He wouldn't be making list decisions in a vacuum, but it ultimately falls on him. 

JT, Josh Mahoney, Roos, Jackson, Brendan Mccartney and Goodwin were responsible for our flag, and Lamb is responsible for our stagnation since.

Gamestyle gamestyle gamestyle bla bla - Goodwin no longer has the cattle at his disposal. 

Well , the Chaos theorists would sort of disagree.

There is order in chaos and patterns can be identified with enough data analysis.

with Bifurcations and patterns defined by formula you just need to identify the strange attractor and where to apply the magic number and youve got it. 

Ive never been able to completely understand it but Im hoping someone in the club does.

47 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

In a way I'm glad Angus has decided not to continue with the role.

I'd hate to imagine what he'd cop tomorrow & him having to sit there on the bench looking at that thug

Exactly. Its why I would like him to have an official League based role as Concussion Ambassador.

Promoting all the scientific and research  knowledge and adding a personal  example. 

Like the Daniher story of MND there is plenty of opportunity. The added impact that it would constantly remind Maynard, Collingwood and their supporters of how appalling The whole affair was.

45 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I’m surprised Leigh Matthews is publicly advising that our players focus their attention on the filthy POS thug tomorrow…

https://www.3aw.com.au/leigh-matthews-melbourne-must-make-sure-brayden-maynard-has-bad-day-on-kings-birthday/

He obviously is a premiership player and coach and knows a bit about the game (and thugs) but i would rather that the players  focus on the scoreboard and make maynards day miserable by flogging the Pies and reminding him at the end that he inspired the win.

2 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

live stream here; https://www.afl.com.au/afl-tv/stream?player=arILJvH9PY&streamId=State League CH9

thanks for that 

wasted my time on the AFL site and watched s past match which we lost. then came back here to get this link to watch the last few minutes . Will now go back over the thread to get the informed DLand commentary. It s always better after a win

2 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

live stream here; https://www.afl.com.au/afl-tv/stream?player=arILJvH9PY&streamId=State League CH9

thanks for that 

wasted my time on the AFL site and watched s past match which we lost. then came back here to get this link to watch the last few minutes . Will now go back over the thread to get the informed DLand commentary. It s always better after a win

7 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Looking at the VFL app tomlinson, mcadam and woewodin listed in the stats section.

No Billings, Laurie, JvR or K Brown.

I'd be very surprised if Kynan plays so think he is carry over.

I dont normally watch , but a bit interested in this . can you provide link

On 02/06/2024 at 12:03, dazzledavey36 said:

As a tall key forward, physical development is absolutely necessary in today's game. Imagine when Jefferson comes up against Sam Taylor, Harris Andrews and Jacob Weitering, he'd get physical monstered.

A winger or outside player in Windsor case can get away with a smaller frame because they're not smack bang right in the middle of the contested work so obviously they're not copping the big hits and one on one duels like key forward/defenders do.

Jefferson is still a long way off it from a physical sense. Talent us there but.

I think you have hit it there DD. Dont select him where he will be physically monstered. And if he is physically monstered teammates must stand up and remonstrate even if it means loss of focus and even the match.

Match ups are so important and judicious use of the bench to gain an advantage or limit a damaging opponent is a real art.

1 minute ago, DubDee said:

I can forgive a dodgy call in the contest but literally deciding a game 100m off the ball is unforgivable 

it needs to be blatant. The officiating makes this game really hard to enjoy

Seems there wasnt a dangerous tackle available. 

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

That disgraceful free kick changed the game. Unbelievable 

perhaps theyre just getting supporters  used to the game changing free kicks that will happen for the favoured pies.

35 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

“Get on with it”??? I’d love nothing more than to be able to get on with it… but I can’t. This whole farce has broken my spirit. From the moment I heard that the filthy thug was free to play, followed by McGuire toasting “ Ladies and gentlemen, justice has been done!” everything has changed. And it’s not going away anytime soon. I saw Gus in the one training session he attended after his forced retirement. What a heartbreaking sight it was. He’s a broken man.

Good on you that you’ve clearly been able to get on with it, but don’t tell others to do the same. 

I always found (and still do) that there are some who have no emotions and found they were the most difficult to deal with as they did not know when they affected the emotions of others.  Fortunately there are not many with no emotions and those who profess so are usually supressing it for some reason and often have difficulties because of that. We cannot be critical of any as the range of emotions is so broad.

The emotions  the Brayshaw incident arouses (as with most things) depends on how close one is to the issue, how much you have invested in the circumstances. Food o those who have moved on. Good on those who still have deep feelings. WE are all on the same journey.

As Melbourne supporters our journey will be vastly different to a Pies supporter. I limit my anger by feeling sorry for those who cannot  or will not appreciate the outcome to Brayshaw and our club. I do hope our players can focus and channel their emotions into a solid defeat of the Pies on Monday. I hope our coaches are able to address each individuals circumstances and coaless the range into a massive team performance.

10 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

i was never going to make it down and just found out that Bridge Road Brewery will have the match on the big screen here in Beechworth.  Ben Kraus ( who has led the brewery since inception with Maria) is a bombers supporter, and interested in seeing how we perform and how the bombers can match up to the best, so has arranged for the coverage.  I did have a BBQ planned with a blues supporting mate who always supports the dees against any other side. He is still sufferable. But I will be a poor loser tomorrow should that happen and concerned that the brewery might attract some Collingwood supporters, Ill be trying to direct them to the Nicholas Hotel where mine host is a rabid Collingwood supporter .

Any other Demons in town coming down to the brewery?

31 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

This is a great initiative and could be so beneficial for all, except for one thing… Gussy’s still struggling to come to terms with the heartbreaking fact that he’ll never play again. It’s for this reason he’s decided to forgo the role the Club gave him ie. being present at training sessions and on the bench for GameDay. By all accounts he finds it too difficult to be part of something he loves but of which he’s been denied… playing footy. 😢

Certainly understand that.  It would only be done with and when Gus could agree (why I used sensitive reference).

I really feel for Gus and still have difficulty even talking to Collingwood supporters who are almost always condescending in their comments and fall back to, its a football act and there was no penalty. Christ the penalty to Gus is total.

Channelling loss grief into another topic can ameliorate the grief.

20 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

It’s their home game so they control all the ‘activations’ pregame and halftime. Even if it was our home game it wouldn’t happen anyways. The most we were free to do in round one was to all wear Gussy helmets, but we can’t wear them on Monday since we’ll be wearing this year’s Big Freeze beanie.

I’ve been PM’d some awesome banner content suggestions from posters on here. Thing is, I doubt they’d even be considered. Remember, the AFL don’t want the Gus travesty highlighted, for obvious reasons 😑

It might be sensitive for Angus but the club could make Gus our Concussion Ambassador. Spread the health and research efforts not only that he is already aware of but promote other activities.

There are more comprehensive testing and assessing tools that are being introduced and Gus could be involved in highlighting these. Start with our club and force the AFL to join this initiative.

Promote his situation at our home games and let us all celebrate and recognise his personal knowledge. He can then as a former player have a greater credibility as an influencer to other players and clubs. 

On 27/05/2024 at 08:54, layzie said:

Hit us with those sweet, sweet stats guys!

You do know that 

Data is not Information

Information is not Knowledge

Knowledge is not Wisdom.

Flags are always hard to win . 

We had a team that was at the cusp of greatness.  The squad as always needed some turnover  but retained the nucleus to keep it in the premiership window.

We lost in straight sets after consistent high level peformances.

Maybe opposition had cracked the system , but inaccuracy and atrocious umpiring combined with the incident just destroyed us.

We have a squad with mixed talents Goody has tried to introduce a greater depth by having players with a natural replacement. Injuries and Pettys form have created difficulty and opportunity. The system as I have previously stated , (defence and surge) can still work if all players play their role.

Its on the coach to get the players motivated again. I think he can do it and the second half offers the opportunity to play different players, different structures, pattern etc but retain the core of the team and hide the successful strategy from our opponents. The potential of our team has not been diminished. I still have faith

Depressing and interesting. I will try and catch the podcast .

The first four minutes the red and blue side dominated. Then cute handballs , silly overuse and the usual umpiring failures led to turnovers and loss of structure.

As the dockers confidence grew aided again by umpire protection the demons skill levels failed under pressure.

Handballs and kicks that fell short or off target seemed to benefit dockers opponents on their own. picking contests wher we were outnumbered seemed to be the desired delivery.

There was never any apparent coaching response to the most simple arts of the game. Tag an opponent and man up.

good luck with any analysis. I think a kick up the [censored] is needed for some players.

Petty is the most interesting dilemma. since rumours of Adelaide millions he has not been the same. Perhaps he is trying to protect his only asset, his body and not playing fearlessly. I did suggest that he should have been told when not traded that he would be released this year only after he had contributed to another flag when his value would be increased. No Flag he would be given away for a lot less.  But maybe he was offered an even better deal from Adelaide play poorly, bring down the dees and we will pay you even more. Drop him until; he can contribute sytrongly.

Trac and Max hold up even Clarry, while not dominating is still contributing. the roles of all midfielders rely on each component playing their part and that seems to be failing due to almost arragance and no protectiuon from umpires.

I have mentioned the defence / surge  strategy and still support it but every component must play their part. That seems to be the failure.

Our best is still very good but our worst like yesterday and eagles is diabolical.

18 minutes ago, layzie said:

Sounds like a very informative experience!

I totally forgot about Melb Design Week this year, always some great exhibits on. Feel free to share those details via PM if you feel! 

probably too much data and not all easily accessible. Ill do what I can but will be dependent upon the exhibitors links etc.

A lot of his material appeared to come from public spaces, including fishermans bend websites which i have sporadically visited. it was always a bit frustrating as there was never any consideration of a stadium, entertainment, community space and retail centre included anywhere and no indication of approach by MFC. 

22 hours ago, No. 31 said:

Fisherman's Bend is slated for intensive high rise development, hosting training facilities there is very unlikely.

Parkville is Carlton's turf, good luck with that.

Caulfield is an option, a definite possibility and ticks many boxes, its why MFC are pushing for this. I can see it happening because it appears MRC want the Dees there.

Sorry 31, I was a bit obscure. the reference to Parkville was for a Melbourne Design Week event "What Killed Fishermans Bend? which was an amazing installation by Paul van Herk and Gabriella Amstalden Martens.

In 5 rooms they had displayed an array which would discourage anyone trying to make any headway in this bureaucratic, financial, corporate, political and social space.

It was simply amazing the amount of material they had collected and displayed. Far too much for me to consume let alone digest. I have discovered some information I was aware of and some I had only thought were unsubstantiated rumours. I certainly saw much evidence of opportunity still available.

It would certainly be enough to encourage a club looking for a quick fix to hope that any alternative option would be an improvement. I do recognise that the time frames identified within this thread do not seem to be quick but in the context of this display it would appear to be.

It is unfortunate that MFC were not identified in any of the material or of having any participation. A well presented feasibility may have altered the course of the total project. Just a missed opportunity while we plough towards a Caulfiekd solution. 

I congratulated the initiator of the project and look forward to further contact. They have a wealth of knowledge and expertise. I do intend to add some enthusiasm to their continuing research.

After the disappointment of todays football performance I will increase my interest in a part of the club I can influence. I see the opportunity and if we dont take it, someone else (Collingwood or Carlton maybe even St Kilda) will   

im tempted to mention Fishermans Bend as a rejected idea. I certainly have had no response from the club to my enquiry at AGM.

. I have also not pursued any further on the project as really I would support Caulfield if it is feasible.

However I am going to the display in Parkville as part of design week to see if they have any valid suggestions. They may at least have some connections,

3 hours ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

Absolutely correct. It was great to watch, probably fun to play and very effective. Here is the frustration. Why don’t we play like that more often? Quick ball movement, changing angles, overlap run and options a plenty laterally and ahead of the ball. In other words an attacking mindset. We do have the talent and ability to do so much more often and consistently. Needs to be more accountability around this. 

if we did that we would be unstoppable and boring winning by so much. The AFL does not want blowouts. It needs close results. Results can be manufactured as has been shown with recent umpiring standards. We need to be the favoured side.

8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Aint that a fact.
My beef is that we play dour, unattractive football every week.
A few weeks ago we played the Cats in primetime and neither team kicked a goal in the second qtr.
An advertisers nightmare.
Meanwhile Essendon gets gifted multiple primetime games over the rest of the season.
Coincidence ..... I think not.

Anyway, we've got the best list of my time (tho' Danihers list was pretty good) and we're wasting the opportunity to expand the club by playing boring, unattractive, scrappy football.
Goodwin needs to remember he's in the entertainment business.
For the club to not just wither away we need to entertain "the mob".
Get bums on seats, eyes on TVs, sponsors at the door and keep the Premiership generation kids attention.
And ya don't do that by playing boring footy in primetime games, chocking in finals or embarrassing the club like they did last week.

When we win the flag with a combination of dour, effective and strong defence and a burst of bang, bang, bang, inspired all out attack (chaos ball) we wil, win the fans back. This strategy is dependent upon controlling the surges.

Most important is not falling too far behind that the burst has to be sustained too long.

This style can also provide the tension and entertainment that the AFL is wanting. Close games are appreciated by opposition fans and so builds the TV audience while also encouraging opposition fans to attend. Dull and boring can be effective in building support for the game, if combined with close results. Winning builds support for our team.