dum dee dum

I went to training this morning and Watts didn't train and Dawes left the track early. I'd say thats more significant that Dawes will miss. Watts may have a cold or something rather than injury and still be right for Sunday. I tipped Port coz I think we haven't trained or played enough together as a unit and we are still suffering those gut wrenching dissappearing acts for quarters, but I love the pre-season, theres something healing about watching a bottom team training without opponents. Anyway after watching Mitch Clark dominate the half forward area of the full ground drill and marking every Shannon Byrne short pass that came his way I once again left full of optimism, till Sunday at least. For mine I reckon we might lose our first two games then pump West Coast at the G to get our season up and going. Anyway good luck to us all, we could do with a bit.

I don't think it's got as much to do with talent on your list as belief and desire to "go all the way." I don't think this list really believes in itself. When something like the second quarter yesterday against St Kilda happens, there is such a belief in loss within the group, a feeling of "here we go again", that is so very hard to change. Some people talk about development but when yesterdays second quarter happens what the hell do you reckon is going through these young players heads, they are being schooled in LOSS! Some people talk about needing a type of player, a small forward or an elite midfielder. But this is totally wrong because you need to change the "culture" before anything else otherwise any new players just get swallowed up in the sense of LOSS pervading the joint. Neeld is trying to change things but if yesterdays second quarter is anything to go by very little has changed for the better this year. St Kilda are a team that went close to the ultimate. They know about self belief. In the second quarter they stepped up and put the contest to bed. Their belief system says "we aren't going to lose to lowly Melbourne" and we rolled over like always because "we believe" that is whats going to happen. To change this belief system of the football world is really hard because you have to beat teams when they have pencilled in wins against you. If some teams, for instance Richmond or North, lose to us this year it may derail their whole season and obvious finals aspirations. There is a vested interest by these clubs to in Melbournes case keep the status quo, to stay above us. We as a club have become such light weights, even the tanking fiasco and its bizzare findings make us look rather sad and pathetic. This "perception" filters through everyone and everything and we all as a result carry a burden. Jim Stynes gave us belief. But boy we've been battered back down again. Back to on field though. To change this mind set Neeld is doing the right thing, you have to turn over the obvious non- believers. But beyond that you need a core group of players that will stop at nothing to succeed and they will carry the rest along. Do Melbourne have these types on its list? I have faith in Grimes to never give up, Viney has good character. But boy the task is daunting. Do I as a supporter have belief? No. Success like loss is infectious. And we as a club have full blown aids.

I just watched the replay and my observations are. - Ollie Wines can't kick, much prefer Toumpass and Viney at this stage. - Spencer beat Redden. This was important as we won a lot of the stoppages. At the start of the third quarter Lobbe went into the ruck, beat Spencer convincingly, they won the stoppages and kicked three goals. Pederson was hopeless in the ruck. - I thought Gillies was good down back and unlike Davis you can trust him when he gets the ball, he is a touch slow so they will have to give him the right match up. - Jetta was great. He is a tackling machine and played with a lot of freedom to create run from defence. I haven't seen him do that at the much higher AFL standard but hopefully as he gets confidence he will. - Kent was great. His play on the boundary line to dodge then centre the ball to Hogan who should have got a free before Sellar snapped the goal was very classy. - Hogan's (I think it was Hogan)(maybe I just wanted it to be Hogan)intercept of a centering pass in the 4th qtr to keep his feet pick up the ball and kick to Davey who goaled was fantastic play. Also in the 3rd he came out and split the pack, picked up the ball and dished off a handpass that was also good. He didn't do much else but those two things were enough to give a glimpse that he will be very good.

This stinks. The whole AFL stinks. What about his relationship with the media, namely Caroline Wilson. Is that full of integrity? So the old firms back in business, a few lovely little Age spin articles to clean up the mess, a few re-adjustments of egos and away we go. What these people need to understand is that they are meant to be custodians of the game, they are meant to take care of it and pass it on to the next generation in good shape. Demetriou, Anderson and Wilson have shown themselves to be nothing more than self-serving in their actions of late. Self serving. They have poor morals and little integrity. Our game needs help quick. GWS has created a big sink hole in the fabric of the game but those at the top have ropes, nets and all sorts of support for that moral vaccuum and they've got a dunny brush and are trying their hardest to push one of the oldest founding clubs down the drain! Then they'll write their own history to say what a great job they've done. It stinks, it stinks, they stink. Maybe we can become the Werribee Demons. They might like us then. Build effigies to them out of the mud they let us play in.

Tim Lanes article is a well thought and articulate piece that looks at why individuals and institutions do unsavoury things in sport and comes to the conclusion "while teams taking advantage of bad rules and fixtures can't be condoned the context can't be ignored in any judgement of their actions" I believe this is where it sits, in isolation Melbourne are and probably should be found guilty, but in the context of the rules and the state of the competition they were a part of, ie the context, it becomes quite cloudy. CW is only interested in isolating Melbourne and she constantly throws out the "context" of the issue. I've also found it interesting how many media people and maybe to some degree the AFL itself have tried to make Essendons drug issue a "wider" AFL issue. It took Buckley to come out and say "hey were not all taking drugs here yet we all seem to be implicated." The AFL hasn't come out strongly to suggest that this is not AFL wide it is only an Essendon issue, yet throughout the "tanking" saga its only Melbourne their interested in when everyone knows it was a common practice for teams who's season was shot, it was a "wider" issue. I believe Melbourne has every right to argue and legally defend its actions and in turn be exonerated from any charges, but I also believe "we took advantage of bad rules."

I find it interesting in this article she actually concedes for what I believe is the first time that "other teams did tank" but then goes on in her typical cavalier subjective unsubstantiated and pathetically biased fashion that those teams didn't do so "as blatantly or as systematically as Melbourne". What crap. Systematic. We were'nt systematic. It was all made up as we went along, I mean we nearly beat Richmond. And blatant. No one was more blatant than Carlton in the Kreuzer Cup. I never used to read her articles much and will quickly go back to that status but in her writings about our club I am left angry as a lot are but more so saddended that one of our cities newspapers has fallen to such depths that she is "chief writer" of anything. How is it so? What is wrong with us that has allowed her to rise to such a position? Anyway, I vote we spend every last penny fighting the bastards.

Good. Let him fly under the radar.

My assesment from training is the stand out midfielders have been N Jones and Viney, so they are the first two in. Matt Jones has been very impressive for mine. He has come from a club with an A grade midfield in Hawthorn. If you look at their main midfielders you have Mitchell, Sewell and Lewis with Rioli, Hodge, Breust and others rotating through. I really like Savage as a player and he was on the fringe, Bateman couldnt get back in there either, what chance for our man Jones! I reckon he could be very good for us. In training he is quick and links well, has good vision and seems to use the ball well, of the newbies he and Viney are the two that seem most likely early doors to be up to AFL level.<br />My next two are McKenzie and Grimes. McKenzie can't really play anywhere else and he is a good run with player. He was only average in 2012 and even though he nullified some of his opponents he rarely if ever beat any of them and never hurt the opposition going the other way. 2013 is a big year for Macca, he should just watch re-runs of Ryan Crowley from Freo, what a great story for a stopper to flourish into an A grader in Freos midfield. Actually I reckon McKenzie is more like Tuck for Richmond who was gone two years ago, couldn't kick, poor skills but competitive and in the last couple of years has become very important to Richmonds midfield as they've added class around him. Macca is super competitive, loves the jumper and a top bloke, hopefully he can emulate one of those two in 2013. Grimes is on his way hopefully to becoming a great Captain, he is A grade proffessional and even though I don't think he's a natural midfielder his work ethic and dedication will take him a long way. This year I think he'll get rotated in the middle but won't be in there as much as Jones or Viney.<br />My next two are Blease and Jetta. Blease just might become a great wing player, he is very suited to the role. With luck in staying on the park I think he'll finish top 5 in our B&F and has the most scope as an X-factor player, even more-so than Howe. But he may play half forward. Just as a side note I think he'll also kick more goals than Howe this year. Jetta has trained with the backs but in a couple of match simulations he has moved through the middle. He has been one of our stars of the pre-season and may even get some time this year in or around or through the middle.<br />Ruck position to Jamar or Spencer, probably 50/50 on training but Jamar should get first crack. I think Spencer will get his chance though this year.<br /><br />I note a lot of posters are putting Bail in their teams. My prediction (and this is all just my opinion) is he will struggle to hold his place, will end the year at Casey and not be on our list next year. I hope he proves me wrong.<br /><br />So centres; Blease Grimes M Jones<br />followers; Jamar N Jones Viney<br />interchange; Jetta, McKenzie Rodan

Jetta looks great, he's having a good pre-season and has put his injury woes behind him (touch wood). This has to be his year. As with many of them its now about opportunity and what they do with it. If he grabs his opportunity when it comes his way he can become a permanent fixture for years to come. I hope he does. His pre-season as with Nicho's would suggest they have the hunger required to be successful. My only concern is his role in the team, I'm not sure what it is yet, Hopefully Neeld can use him well and we'll all be happy.

Watching training on Wednesday I was very impressed with Gillies, I have a feeling he is heading the queue to be the third lock behind Frawley and McDonald. Frawley was fantastic, he was the backline General and in the drill where they were intent on moving the ball from the backline just about everything went through him. McDonald was also fantastic, he is a gun and easily our second lock in the backline. But as the thread suggests the other four positions are open. In Wednesdays training Col Garland wasn't used in that backline third tall role, Gillies was and he was good, I'm locking him in. Working the other way I agree Davis and Clisby are depth only, Tynan has good skills, runs well but looks a bit immature still so may struggle to get many games. Last Wednesday I reckon I would have included Terlich as he was great clearing long from the backline but this week he looked a bit more like a one trick pony and he may need to work on some aspects of his game before he gets a chance to break into the side. So thats three in and four out, how many left? 8. 8 into 3. I think we'll get two extra defenders on the interchange, so 8 into 5. Hmmm, well I'll go the most versatile in Watts who can play further up the ground and Nicho, actually Nicho is a candidate to get re-invented, he has great stamina and someone suggested a run with role, his skills though are at times poor but as a stopper he could excell. And I like him. So in he goes. I'll now go with the audience vote and include Dunn, lots of great arguments for his inclusion so in hegoes. Now we're left with Garlo, Sellar, Macdonald and Jetta. Into two interchange spots. Hang on I'll be back I just need to ring a friend. "Neeldy! Hows it going. Yes its me, remember, Dumdee. Just playing fantasy backline and... whats that, oh, sorry, never again, right..." Aaah I choose D. Yes Eddie lock it in.

I thought Jim Stynes was the best thing to happen to the Melbourne Footy Club for a long time. I think his legacy will live on long past this ridiculous and petty investigation is consigned to the annals of a long list of stuff ups by the AFL. Jim was good friends and completely trusted Don McLardy. Don in turn promised Jim to do his best to carry through their vision to get the MFC back on track and a viable, vibrant and relevant part of the sporting landscape in Melbourne. Don McLardy and the MFC among many others handled the passing of Jim less than a year ago with dignity and reverance to a great man. I don't know much else about Don McLardy except he has a reluctance to be thrust into the spotlight. But he is carrying out Jim's wishes to the best of his ability, in obviously very tough times. And yet you Hazy while hiding behind a nom de plume and a keyboard keep being disrespectful to Don and others who at least are standing up and fighting for what they believe in, the MFC. I actually think the MFC has handled this witch hunt reasonably well by keeping quiet. I think you would do better Hazy to look at ways you can help out, stand up, be something rather than the pathetic negative figure you represent skulking around these forums.

There is one part of all this that is ringing very large alarm bells in my head and that is the Bailey part. If Bailey is found guilty I think there is a fair chance he will turn around and sue the club for not allowing him to coach on his merits. If that happens and Bailey starts talking about the pressure applied to him etc I think it could get very ugly. We need to keep Bailey on our side.

I went to training today. It was the second time I have been this year and I went to about ten pre-season training sessions last year. I can see improvement on the track from my observations. Whether this translates to victories in games I'm not sure but I think it might. I get the feeling as others have said that Neeld and co. are working to a plan and we are in year two of the roll out of it. Last year at this stage we had only done fairly basic skill stuff and were heavily into running. There was a smaller main group and lots of modified programs, still mainly to do with improving fitness. From there we went into the season with a basic and, after five weeks, a heavily criticised game plan of kicking long down the line to a contest, a slow laborious and ultimately, losing plan. This pre-season there are marked differences. Firstly the main group is larger in number, around 27 players today for instance. As a group compared to last year they are fitter, stronger and bigger. Secondly we are already practicing different ways to move the ball, early doors there is much more emphasis on the skills of the game. As Ben Hur said they were doing stoppage work today and a form of circle work which was all about running, kicking handballing and timing. Jack Watts is great to watch at this uncontested stuff, he is a great kick on both sides of his body and his timing when he attacks the ball is sublime. But yes it is uncontested. I think the third area we might see improvement is in the personnel. In previous years so many of our players have been unfit injured or of a poor attitude. The step up in professionalism over the two years and the boys' approach to training would be pretty obvious to most who go to watch them train. Individuals who are a chance to improve next year if training is anything to go by; Sam Blease. As we all saw showed glimpses last season and in a couple of the stoppage drills today showed his class. I think he may improve again in 2013. Tappy. He had no pre-season at all last year and in some of the gut running in the two sessions I've been to this pre-season he has kept up with Jones and Nicho and looks terrific. In the stoppage drill today whenever the blue team got the ball and went back from the stoppage they went wide out to Tappy on the wing/ half forward line in a set play that looked good. In the running after he ran with Viney, Spencer, Byrnes, Taggert, Rodan, McKenzie, Jones and Davey in repeat 1000 metre or some set time running thing (pretty brutal) and in the first one he blew them away. Unfortunately in the second run (they'd have about a minutes rest in between) he pulled up sore in his ankle/calf. Shame as he is flying but hopefully not too big a set back. Neville Jetta. He had a shocking run with injuries but is in the main group so far and looks good. In the stoppage work he featured a couple of times for the orange vests clearing the ball through traffic. He's tough. I'm not sure he will make it and I've watched him in games after reading positive things about him on here and I'm still not sold but if he is going to make it then at least he's giving himself every chance for 2013. Rory Taggert. He was in an orange vest and pitted against Magner or Rodan mainly and he did OK. I think he is a watch for 2013. He has nice size and got a couple of clearances for the orange vests that showed talent. Later in the running he completed them all but just ahead of Davey. At this stage I just hope he completes all the pre-season work. Spencer and Sellar. They did the ruck work and both went OK. I remember last pre-season Spencer couldn't get on the track with a knee injury. This year in the running sessions he is up front and really pushing himself, if he can continue he won't lack for fitness. In the stoppage work he was with the blues and got most of the taps, Rodan especially was at his feet and away a lot of times. He is definitely number 2 ruckman and may even push Jamar for number 1 spot in 2013. Sellar showed he can be a pinch hitter in the ruck if we only go in with one ruckman in games. Jack Watts. The main thing I reckon has changed for the better for Jack is he appears to have gained a bit more respect from the group from last pre-season. And he's settled. Last pre-season he was going to be a forward. I remember him having a push and shove with Frawley one day and coming off looking rather silly. Also Leigh Brown the forward line coach could just rag doll him in wrestling/marking drills. Mind you Brown could do that to most but it was like they were testing Watts and he wasn't testing too well. This pre-season he appears to be a respected, well performed and settled member of the group and he is training really well, well for two sessions anyway, I hope it continues. Shannon Byrnes and D-Rod. Both training well. Both professional attitude. Both showed off good skills. Nathan Jones. I remember last pre-season people on here were questioning his worth in the team and maybe fair enough as well but if one player has thrived under Neelds and Missons structured training regime its him. He is fit and well and massive. He is the natural leader of the group, especially the mid-field and a great role model. I also think the addition of Rodan and maybe Viney will help him to maybe get outside a bit more and hopefully get into the elite category in the league. (well maybe Sheahan's top 50 anyway for a start) Today in the running he started 10 or 15 seconds behind all the other runners and I think they might have done six repeats and in about the fifth run he came up alongside Viney who was leading and then Leigh Brown joined in (he would join in for the last minute, he's big but he's fit and he can really carve out some sectionals and he encourages them along, great to watch) and they ran flat out for the last 30 seconds, Jones got in front but Viney came back and beat him. Negatives. Grimes is in rehab group with a bandage on one of his hammy's, really hope he gets back soon. I hate to say it, I'm no doctor and its crazy to put a dampener on a positive training report but I think Clark is a long way off. Sylvia. Last pre-season he was in modified program and same this pre-season. Status Quo for his attitude. No leader. Anyway Whispering Jack I really enjoyed reading your thread on Timing of the Shrew so hopefully you enjoy my report. I do think we'll improve in 2013.

I noticed in the pre-season when we were losing, a lot of posters wanted to knock both Jones and Moloney. I was hoping that our "grunt" workers were just taking it easy waiting for the "real" games to start, no need to practice "barge work" which drains the body and gives corky's and soreness etc. I think Moloney sort of proved this point on Sunday with an outstanding performance. Quite clearly best on ground and giving 110% all day. So some of you ROTTERS switch your focus to Jones. Jones, Moloney, Sylvia, Trenners and now Tappy supply the fantastic "gruntfest" that will take us a long way this year and without it we may just go back to our NAB challenge form so leave the bloke alone and watch us give Hawthorn a bit of their own back. Mitchell, Jona's onto you.

I think we should elevate Campbell then immediately place him on the long term injury list, thus allowing room to elevate Evans Brilliant!

I think one of the reasons we were so poor tonight was the fact we had a two week break after a win and we probably relaxed too much. I think it's the perfect scenario to take Hooroo Jack Watts on a 6am run and swim and rip into him and work his butt off and make him think twice before he comes out and says he doesn't care about losing. Run him up a bloody big hill until he throws up then he might get serious.

I'm really looking forward to the year. This is the first year I beleive Bailey will be coaching to win. As silly as that may sound I don't really think he cared too much last year about winning, he was still developing and experimenting, playing Scully on Boomer Harvey for experience, playing a skinny Jack Watts a bit wide and loose to give him game time but avoiding injury etc. This year from training notes he has made a significant switch from developement to concentrating on game-plan. This may take a bit of time and there are still a couple of pieces still to be put in place but I think he might be ready to have a crack this year provided things fall our way. Scully is a setback but I think the sky is the limit. We could finish top four. Don't put restrictions on us. I think this year Bailey will have us play a brand of footy that'll blow our minds. It'll be good enough to beat anyone. What he will struggle to control is our ability to sustain it. That will be the thing. To repeat it week in week out.

Gee you're all a bit deflated after going over the various scenarios and permutations with the Scully Inc. saga hey. Everyones now downgrading their expectations without a ball being kicked in anger. Your like a bunch of party balloons the day after. Very funny. Anyhow for the record I think we'll smash 'em over in Adelaide with Beamer and Silvia leading the way. Get on!

I really agree with your sentiments BINMAN. I don't think he is worth that money and if he leaves I will be very interested in the compensation and who we get rather than agonising over someone who in essence is showing mercenary traits at an age when money really shouldn't be that important. Any young artist or sportsperson who at age 19 is more concerned about financial gain than becoming the best they can be in their chosen field is heading down the wrong path. I blame the "used car salesmen" attitude of player managers. I note some posters say his manager is doing a good job. I cannot agree! Money hungry sicophants and Tom will regret taking the money path I'm sure. We will all hate him. Why create enemies at such a young age. And he'll be going to a soulless club with no supporters run by a goose. You'd be mad Tom, but I won't give a toss. I just want to barrack for players that want to play for my club. This is what I'm going to hate this year. I don't know wether to barrack for Tom or not. And I'd really like the club to do something about it because at the moment we are all being held to ransom!

I reckon' the footy dept have put together a good list and since Jim Stynes has taken over and got so many people involved I think he's actually shifted the way outside people view MFC for the better. I do respect that and think Jim deserves some good Kharma for himself and our club. I'd love to witness that come to fruition over the next decade. I hope the players and their !@#$%^& managers respect the hard work and sacrifice a lot of people have put in just to get us into a position where we are a chance. I prefer humble to arrogance though and I have a feeling Jim would too.

To Curry and Beer, Firstly about Bruce, in monetary terms he went to Hawthorn for less, and even though he was concerned about his prospects of playing on for more than one year at Melbourne the point I was making was that a super-power club would have not have let that happen. Bruce may still become a 300 game player but sadly not with us. I think this has the potential to make us look bad. But somehow a lot of posters don't want to acknowledge this and carry on about how great we are. I think Bruce's departure was messy and caught Bailey unawares. I like Bailey but I think his "Bruce" moment wasn't his finest. You ask for perspective and I just felt it was all one way traffic. As for Scully you are right, I would like the impossible. I would like him to stay and I would like us to pay him what he is worth and no more. But I will repeat, if we pay him more than what he is worth we will shoot ourselves in the foot. Again, strong clubs work their way through this. I'm not saying we won't and I certainly hope we do but we haven't yet so why gush on about our "decade of glory" prospects until this issue is resolved.

I still think we've got a long way to go before we are anything like a power club. One of the reasons the Brisbane Lions then Geelong and even Collingwood now had success was players making sacrifices for the common good and wanting to play for the club over money or personal gain. Do you think any of those clubs would have let a 240 game player who had the chance to be a one-club 300 game player walk away for less cash. And now we've got a situation where we are being tested to our core. Do we cave in and pay overs for a young up and coming champ or do we hold firm and pay him his right wack and keep him on the list? If we pay overs it's the beginning of the end I can assure you. Coz none of those great teams of the past twenty odd years did that. Especially not before they won a premiership together. So if we pay overs for Scully there will be a queue of players lining up for their slice of the pie and all of a sudden base camp will seem a long way up! And if he takes the money and runs then we are nothing more than a soft touch. Ooh look the Dee's have trained up another one lets go see if he wants to play for a real club. This is a huge issue for this club. If we are to be successful we must not pay overs and yet we must find a way to keep Sculls on our list! Look at North and Swallow. He was all but signed for GWS and he came out and signed with Nth FOR THE GOOD OF THE TEAM AND CLUB! Nth have passed the test. Can we?

I agree with you Daveytrain. Very sensible line of thought. I also think that we wont have to wait till the end of the season to know if he has signed a deal with GWS because unlike Geelong who were in Premiership mode and were obliged to play their best player or sacrifice their whole season, ie cut off their nose to spite their face, MFC aren't in the same situation and if it became known within that he'd signed to GWS theres no way we'd play him! Why? Develop a traitor? Develop game plans around a bloke whos leaving? I think we'd find he would develop a mystery injury and have a very poor season for us. So tactically he and his management and everyone else involved with the deal and of course those "know-all" Nth Melbourne officials will have to be very good at keeping a secret, or more likely he hasn't signed anything coz he needs to play footy this year. I'll be pretty upset if we spend the year developing him as a player and a lot of our game plans around a bloke who's leaving. I think thats our leverage. ARE YOU IN OR OUT TOM?