nutbean

Jimmy was not the flavor of the month - he was definitely the more fancied selection by the experts What I have learned from numerous drafts is that the experts are pretty good at identifying the top draft picks but trying to identify them in order of how they will turn out is nothing more than guesswork - if you go through the top 10 from every draft, they have generally identified the top talent but not one draft would not have a complete reordering - there will always be picks that in retrospect should go higher and others that should be lower and picks that are a complete bust and smokey's that no one really identified - how in in the name of all that is good did Fyfe get through to the selection he did. We were lucky that last year we had picks 2 and 3 - who here is willing to bet who will turn out better ? Petracca or Brayshaw ? We are fortunate we did not have to make that choice. But if we only had pick 2 and not pick 3 as well and picked Petracca - we would be upset if Brayshaw turned out better.

Seriously ? Just type in Jimmy Toumpas and go to the earliest threads and there are umpteen references to Toumpas going in the top three and not making it to our pick - Even Jack Viney in an interview asked who he would take and he nominated Toumpas but further elaborated that he didnt think he would be available at our pick. ( I cannot find the interview but Hannibal refers to the same interview in Nov 2012 - " I heard Viney (Jack) interviewed a few weeks back and he was asked which other player in the draft do you really rate and would love to go to Melbourne and he nominated Toumpas".) So much talk of Toumpas hopefully "Sliding" to our pick. Even enjoying the conspiracy theories of us overpaying for Hogan in exchange for GWS letting Toumpas slide to our pick. Ill set you a challenge - you provide one shred of evidence that Wines was higher rated prior to the draft than Toumpas and was the "obvious" choice and I will then provide double the amount for Toumpas being rated higher than Wines. (FYI - in the first minute of searching I have two from July and September of the draft year).

Actually blantantly right. Newspapers are working off information from recruiters and TAC watchers. Until you provide one shred of evidence that Wines was rated by anyone ahead of Toumpas then your comment referring to "blatantly wrong" is blatantly wrong. Did we get it wrong in hindsight ? no argument. Your comment " Without question Toumpas was in that correct range and the debate between the two was valid at that point in time" is correct but the debate at the time was one sided - At that time it was envisaged that Toumpas would be selected higher than Wines and that is exactly what transpired. I will watch with interest how Parish goes because before any more rewriting of history happens, I will also state that Parish was more highly fancied that Oliver so I expect there to be much hand wringing if Parish ends up a much better footballer than Oliver. However I don't get angry over who we could have had - it is a pointless exercise.

Could not disagree more - I don't care if you look like king kong or twiggy - if you don't have talent - take your bat and ball go home - you are not going to make it. If you are suggesting that you have two equally talented footballers but one is undersized and one is a brute - then it is no brainer. To also suggest that you draft for the immediate playing team flies in the face of what Roos constantly says ( and every expert of the game). You hope for some exposure from your draftee in year one and more output in year two - and established in year 3 - big men generally take longer. Drafting any footballer because they are "ready to go" is folly - Ready to go footballers are the exception rather than the rule. Using Cale Morton body size is interesting - He is 192 cms and played at 88kg ( footywire). Jack Gunston is 193 cms and plays at 85kg ( footywire) - interestingly Gunston doesn't suffer from the same problem as Morton did. Years of watching football shows me that talent is and always will be paramount. I'll give you two more - Adam Saad of the Gold Coast - he is a ripper - all 178cm and 74kg of him. Are you critical of the drafting of Neal Bullen - 182cm and 76kg - 1cm shorter than Toumpas but 5kg lighter. There is no substitute for talent The major difference between Toumpas and Wines is not body maturity/size - it is about talent. Wines is more talented than Toumpas.

I am ! The Ox suggests it and it now becomes fact ? I becomes pretty suspicious of "facts" when no-one actually mentions this "fact" until a year or two after the event when Wines has become a star and Toumpas a washout. What is absolute fact is the Toumpas was higher rated by so called experts than Wines was. (What is also fact is so called experts get their rankings wrong as much as they get them right)

"retrogenius" - those who look back in time, armed with current data and rewrite history - "it was so obvious that Wines was the better choice than Toumpas". As stated previously - these boards may go into meltdown if Parish turns out much better than Oliver as Parish was more the highly fancied pick.

absolutely.... I am still firmly in the "development is king" camp. I cannot fathom that we had that many footballers come to our club that either failed completely or plateaued at "average at best". I maintain that if you get footballers with some raw talent into a cesspool of a club both on and off field and give them no further tuition or nurture them and basically throw them to the wolves they will ultimately wither on the vine ( unless you are a rare driven specimen like Nathan Jones). I also do not think you can downplay having good role models, mature footballers in your club to help transition youth. This has been absent from our club and to an extent is still in short supply. My greatest delight with the Roos appointment is he firmly put development on the table - he constantly talks about and has backed it up by putting a lot of resources into developing our youth - McCartney to my mind, is an inspired appointment.

It will be interesting to see how we go with Oliver as he only came into contention later in the season and touted as our top pick in the last couple of weeks Darcy Parish was certainly "conventional wisdom" for most of the year.

1 out of 3 ...

either on the thread or on certain people in ill fitting white jackets.

get stuffed ...( sorry..wanted to join in the argy bargy)

it's gonna get ugly - I am prepared to be right royally shafted

There is a "Soundwave" broo-ha-ha going on. It has been cancelled for next year and looks like this year is under threat. Damn - I bought a new black t-shirt and have been in an anti-tanning booth ( makes me white and pastey) in anticipation.

Agreed but he isn't the first key forward coming into the comp with high expectations and won't be the last. When we are successful debut seasons from the likes of Brayshaw, Hogan, Petracca etc should be the icing on the cake - not the reason we are going to have a good or bad year.

This is absolutely it - You look at the Hawks last year - they wanted big seasons from Roughhead, Mitchell, Lewis, Rioli. Our expectation rose and fell on the back of a 20 year old forward who was in his first year of football.

I for one am only working off Weideman's footage I have seen when comparing him to Boyd but I would suggest that Weideman covered more distance in his clips than Boyd has in his career to date. IMO - To date, Boyd has been a lazy footballer - Weideman moves around the forward line which I like.

From the highlights packages his first instinct is the same as Viney - see ball get ball without hesitation. I am not suggesting other players are timid but there is a rare breed who do not wait for a play to unfold to make a move - their first instinct is to make the play. Oliver appears to me as this sort of player.

I am saying how about you quote my entire post where I concluded by saying " in my years of supporting I am now a believer that the club is the best placed I have seen in terms of development coaching to get the most out of the kids we draft.". Again - so it is clear - the inference in me being a believer is for exactly what I have seen from Brayshaw, Salem, Viney and Hogan ( I discard Tyson - not because I think he is not a pearler but because we had two years of exposed AFL form before we drafted him). And to me the litmus test will be the likes of Stretch, Harmes and ANB. They have shown glimpses ( as have many of our draft picks over the years) and I am now eager to have my belief justified by seeing them take the next step this upcoming season

I think you are overreaching - I was not just outright comparing Toumpas to Oliver. I was addressing Bandicoot's post where he was lauding the fact that Oliver had made a very good fist of it in the VFL as an indicator of what is to come and Toumpas had done EXACTLY that in the SANFL. So it is clear - in no way shape or form am I suggesting that Oliver will turn out like Toumpas. The point is good open company form is not necessarily an indicator that you will make it. Toumpas proved his form against men could not replicate it when he came to the big league. Conversely Hogan played good VFL footy and has replicated it. What is more impressive as stated elsewhere - is his commitment to dropping weight and getting fit.

After years of seeing Draftees fail I am definitely in the "Old Dee" camp of keeping my powder dry until I see some performances from these youngsters that merits confidence that we have picked some bona fide "guns". I will repeat - in my years of supporting I am now a believer that the club is the best placed I have seen in terms of development coaching to get the most out of the kids we draft.

Jimmy Toumpas played the last part of the 2011 in the SANFL and played in the Woodville/West Torrens premiership side in only his 5th game and I recall the same things being said about him. Having said that the biggest two changes at the club since Toumpas' drafting is the emphasis on developing junior talent from day one and Roos stated policy of zero expectations on 1st year players. If there is talent and upside in these draftees I have faith that the structures now in place will bring it to the fore.

Two completely different bands pre and post Green. So two concerts down this week and my legs are about to give out from jumping around like a lunatic. Florence and the Machine and Mumford and Sons were both superb.

Went very main stream last week and saw fleetwood mac - i have seen them 3 times before and they were very ordinary. I was dragged along and they have improved to a rating of "meh". Just too - well... icky for me...Christine McVie was great but Lindsey Buckinghamwho plays a great guitar is just a first class plonker. Went last night to see Florence and the Machine - Florence Welch has a set of pipes on her which is just wow - she was extraordinary.. Thursday seeing Mumford and sons Friday I declare bankruptcy.

Thats a good watch - Scully - caught a lot - turned it over nearly every time. Fitzy - looked all at sea Gaff - looked very composed Trenners - got a few touches.

My squeeze goes nuts over one song called My pal by God. 4 piece band from Melbourne - mid to late 80's - sadly two of the four members died of heroin overdoses. Great song..