pm24

Basically the entire team was a disgrace against the kangaroos, so why do you feel the need to single out Watts. There seems to be this obsession with Watts having to be a gorilla marking forward who is dominating every game, despite the fact that other similar type forwards like Kennedy and Hendersen didn't come into their own until they were about 22/23 before they took that next step, but they would have had a better culture and development program to assist them in their development. Both were also top 5 picks, so maybe we should be comparing Watts to the Kennedy's and Henderson's of the world, and realise that tall players who come into the game with slender builds, take that little bit longer to have an impact, and a little bit longer to become consistent players.

Has anyone considered that it was not Green, nor is it Watt's role to get in and under to get the ball out, but rather to receive the ball so that they can use their elite disposal skills to best benefit the team. I don't get this obsession with Watts needing to go in and get every ball. Watch other key forwards and rucks etc, they don't go in after every single ball. There are plenty of examples of Cloke, Buddy, Roughead, all hovering around the outer of the packs waiting to receive the ball, rather than being the one digging it out. I think in general, Watts' work rate has improved dramatically this year. I thought he was great against the dogs too. There was one passage in where he lead through the middle in the first quarter, when Tommy Mac had the ball coming out of the back half, and he had about 10 mtrs on his man. What happened next.....Tommy Mac didn't see him, so Watts then sprinted to the wing. Tommy Mac gave the ball to Chippa who kicked to Jones, who drew the free kick, Watts kept running, received the handball outside 50, and then delivered to Kent for the goal. Many are often quick to criticize Watts' work ethic, but he was on about a 70metre lead, from out of our forward line when Tommy didn't see him, he then ran probably another 50 metres, to get to a position to get the handball receive before delivering to Kent. He did not stop pushing to get into space, he kept working to be in position to receive the ball. I've seen multiple examples of him working into space only to be ignored, and then working hard to get back for another lead. He has dominated players like Dale Morris on the lead, who couldn't keep up with him. That's his strength, and he plays to it. So we may want him to be a Jonathon Brown, but he's not that type of player. He is a leading forward with speed, more like a Josh Kennedy type. Sometimes I wish people would focus on what improvements he has shown, rather than just lamenting how he isn't playing how they want him to play. If he's playing the role the coach has for him, then he is doing his job.

I think people need to remember why the club probably selected Toumpas in the first place. He is not a in and under player, he is a player that can win his own ball, but it is how he uses that is first class. We have a dearth of good ball users but he was one of the best in the draft, and was looked at as easily a top 3 pick. Give him time, and stop expecting him to be something that he wasn't recruited to be. We didn't need to pick Wines when we knew we had Viney at pick 26. If we grabbed Wines and Viney, then we'd have a heap of grunt but not much polish. Toumpas is the polish we need.

Even if everything that GNF has said is true, and I'm not saying whether I believe it is, or it isn't, but a lot can change in a season of footy. Once we get our best 22 on the ground, what's to say we won't start winning games and the feeling amongst the player group won't become more and more positive and optimistic. At the start fo the year, it might have been quite possible Frawley, Sylvia and Watts would be leaving, but I'm hoping that by seasons end the team will have shown enough improvement to keep them around.

I disagree with this because I think since the middle of last year, the club has clearly identified Watts as a Mackie type rebounding defender. People continue to bang on about Watt's not having a thirst for the contest, but if he's been identified as the player other team mates need to get the ball too, then I can understand him waiting on the outer of the contest in order to receive the handball and deliver the ball into the midfield. Also, I think a lot of people have treated him unfairly in respect his "lack of hardness". How many here would like a guy like Mackie on the list??? I know I would, but he's hardly the big bustling defender we all think we need, yet he is a premiership player, and widely regarded as one of the most dangerous half backers in the league with ball in hand. This is the type of role I believe the club see's Watts playing. And with Clarke, Dawes, Pederson and soon Hogan to play in the forward line, I reckon it is great list management to put Watts into a role in the team where he can use his skills to the biggest benefit of the team.

That is true, but the observations that they make within the clubrooms are more accurate than the perception of us supporters based on actions in game and possibly more accurate that the media rumors that swirl around. Jack may not be 100% happy, but none of us truely know. I don't disagree with you regarding those in charge of the club having a lot to answer for in respect to Watts, and I know that the leadership of the club has only changed minimally. However the Football Department is completely different, and that is the environment that Watts would find himself in on a daily basis. I'm just suggesting that I think under the new football department, Watts has shown more improvement than he did under Bailey, and has in fact performed better. Why was it bad player management? Watts hurt his ankle the week prior, and played while sick during the Essendon game. So how is it poor player management to sub a player off when he is sick and playing with a bad ankle, and struggling in the game..... Please explain.

That is true, but the observations that they make within the clubrooms are more accurate than the perception of us supporters based on actions in game and possibly more accurate that the media rumors that swirl around. Jack may not be 100% happy, but none of us truely know. I don't disagree with you regarding those in charge of the club having a lot to answer for in respect to Watts, and I know that the leadership of the club has only changed minimally. However the Football Department is completely different, and that is the environment that Watts would find himself in on a daily basis. I'm just suggesting that I think under the new football department, Watts has shown more improvement than he did under Bailey, and has in fact performed better.

I have already posted in another thread that I have a friend who volunteers for the club with fundraising efforts and is in the rooms at every game before, during and after the game. All the statements about the players not being behind Neeld were dismissed, rather their comments were that they had never seen the playing group so united. This HUN article is just speculation. I also wonder why people would say that it is Neeld who is the sole problem if Watts really is disgruntled. What about Bailey??? What about the 3 1/2 years that he was in charge and the club stupidly decided to debut Watts for the Queens Birthday clash in 2009 for "marketing" purposes. Seriously, if Watts has a problem with the club, I think it would have more to do with the pre-Neeld era than the post-Neeld era. I sometimes wonder if Scully would still be playing in a Melbourne guernsey if Neeld was around, because Scully obviously didn't see much discipline or leadership amongst the experienced players while he was here given he reportedly cited their behaviour on the China trip as one of the reasons he didn't feel certain about remaining with the club. I actually think Watts has performed better under Neeld. His move to the backline has been a great move. I was actually pretty frustrated to hear that Watts had played most of his junior football along the half back line and on the wing, but we decided to throw him into the forward line despite the fact that he physically wasn't ready for it. We as fans, also placed too much emphasis on him becoming that big gorilla forward we've wanted rather than looking for the club to utilise his athletic ability and disposal ability for the best of the club. As a forward, Watts is more a Josh Kennedy type than a Jonothan Brown. But that wasn't the way the club operated under Bailey. There wasn't any thought, or any analysis of player skills and matching them to the abilities we required for different positions. That was when the administration of the club (Schwab and co) were meddling with the football department. If I was Watts, that would be the part of my career that would make me think about leaving. Not the current period. But hey, blame Neeld if you want. I'm getting in the way of some more Neeld bashing, so my apologies. Please proceed.