pm24

Seems like a Martin for Wellingham trade might be a longer shot than originally thought. Apparently Wellingham is on his way out West for talks with clubs at the moment.....that's what the Hun is reporting anyway.

So how would people feel if we got Wellingham and Goldsack from the Pies for Martin + Pick/player, then signed gumbleton from Essendon, or worked a trade where we swapped Moloney for Gumbleton. To me that would be a good start to the trading/free agency for us.

Though I like SteFan, I would prefer Jamar. I think Jamar brings more intangibles to the team, plus he is still a good ruckman. He didn't have a great season last season, but I think with Spencer and Gawn in the wings, Martin is the one who should go. Stefan relies on his jump to much and doesn't use his body as well as Jamar in the ruck contests. Plus, i'm not sure what the stats are on taps to advantage, but I would hazard a guess that Jamar is better in this area. I just like the toughness that Jamar brings in the ruck. I don't see that same grunt or toughness in Martin. With Grundy available in the draft, I think the team would be better served continuing with Jamar, and developing Spencer and Gawn further. If Gawn can get his body right we have all seen what he is capable of. These factors make Martin redundant. If we picked up Grundy, he could also play reasonably soon and the last thing I would want is another Ruck preventing him from getting game time. I still think that moving Martin to Collingwood for a 2nd round pick is a good move, particularly if we pick up another forward to partner with Clark. Secondly, Sellars form has probably made Martin a little redundant as well. He has the versatility to play forward/back or ruck, and has more toughness than Martin.

So why don't we send Martin to Collingwood for their 2nd round pick, then send that 2nd round pick to Nth Melbourne for Pedersen??? That's probably a pretty fair trade. There's no way we would get a first round pick from Collingwood, but maybe we could get a player thrown in as well as the pick. But I reckon a 2nd round pick would be fair compensation for Martin anyways, particularly if it netted us Pedersen.

Given how much has changed this year, particularly from a fitness perspective, I fully expect Jack to be stronger and have better endurance than last year. He has already been complimented by Neeld a number of times for his work ethic at training, doing extra sessions etc. We all saw what happened mid-season. With a bit more strength and endurance I can see him taking another step next season. I would like to see him return to the forward line as the third tall forward, playing as a lead up target so that he can then use his disposal skills to our advantage where we most need it....the last kick into the forward 50. I think we have enough backs or developing backs, and I also feel confident that Rivers will stick around. I could be completely wrong on this, but I'm just not too concerned about Riv. The only question would obviously be who we play as the 2nd tall forward. Do we give Fitzpatrick a chance to cement a spot or do we put the bigger body of Sellar in there? With Strauss getting another preseason under his belt, I believe he can be that key transition player to deliver the ball out of the back 50. Watts will probably still be needed down there, but as I've said, i think it would be better for the balance of the team to have Watts playing as a high half-forward.

The one thing I alwasy remember when this debate comes up is that Natanui is almost a full year older than Watts. So physically, Natanui is bound to have the advantage, but with another solid preseason under his belt with Misson, I reckon we could see a stronger Watts next year. I guess the other benfit of drafting Watts is that Natanui's ability could fall of sooner than Watts due to Natanui's reliance on his athleticism. Remember that athletic ruckmen we used to have, Jeff White. As his body started to get run down and older, his effectiveness dropped big time. That's the danger with relying on athleticism so much, once it goes you can't get it back. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I'm an avid basketball player and fan, and it's very noticeable that those guys that have always relied on their athleticism to be successful can drop off in their effectiveness sooner than those with strong fundamental skills. Natanui has still got a lot of time to develop his skills, but is he going to be as effective when he loses a yard of pace, or if he can't jump as high??

I believe this is the rule that would be applied to Moloney (source: http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/89809/default.aspx): 3. A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is one of the 10 highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service. The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs. If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club. His club has the right to match the presented offer. If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the Draft. If the club does not or can not match the offer, the player can move to the new club of his choice. His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period. The bolded section is obviously the section that RM is referring to. So if we do not bring in as many players that go out, we get a compensation pick. If we bring in as many as we lose, we get nothing. That's my reading of it anyway.

I thought they had to cut it back to 38 to make way for O'Meara plus their draft picks.

This is totally different to the trade period, this is free agency. The free agent system gives players a lot more bargaining power than they would have under the trade period where clubs determine the outcomes. Though I'm firmly in the camp of "I'll believe it when I see it" with respect to a number of these rumors, don't dismiss how much could change during this new era of free agency. Just look at some of the team sports in the US. In the NBA you can have teams trade away half their roster (6 players) in order to pick up 3 or 4 plus cash. Then they spend the cash on another player they want and enter the new season with only half their original roster retained. Though we wouldn't see half a list turnover yearly, don't underestimate how much change could happen in free agency. Players now have the capacity to find their way to premiership calibre teams without their current clubs holding them back. Becoming a player manager just became a much more attractive, and possibly lucrative profession.

Whoops, sorry. I posted this while using my phone, which probably wasn't showing it all properly.

Why let facts get in the way .......

I seriously don't understand why there is so much hate for Neeld. As some have pointed out, guys like Petterd and Moloney were rarely in the best when they went back to Casey. Does that mean they're not very talented? No. To me it says that when the game was not on their terms they were not prepared to give the required effort to work on their game and develop for the sake of the team. Petterd and Moloney are certainly talented players, and remember Green made statements on the radio about some players getting games based on talent alone and need to become professional football players, but may not have the required work ethic to become professional football players. If the rumor about ricky is true then it's unfortunate but i'm not going to lose any sleep because of it. The news on the delistings is a breath of fresh air. It's the first time i've seen this club actively take steps to try and stand for something. Just as we brought in mature bodies like Clark, Sellar, Couch and Magner in order to address weaknesses, we are now clearly indicating to players that they need to lift, and some aren't liking it. So, if they are not prepared to be professional footballers then they should not be at our club. Not if we are serious about moving this club towards being a premiership calibre team.

It seems a little rediculous that the co-captain of the club isn't already on the banner. Give Grimes a Go!!! And Clark and Howe for obvious reasons.

Here are my thoughts: Good enough to be part of a really good AFL team (that can play and compete well in finals) 2. Jones 3. Bartram 4. Watts 8. Frawley 9. Trengove 11. Clarke 12. Sylvia 13. McKenzie 16. Grimes 17. Blease 20. Garland 22. Moloney 24. Jurrah 27. Rivers 38. Howe 40. Jamar Might soon be good enough... but need to develop 5. Gysberts 10. Morton 14. Dunn 19. Strauss 25. McDonald 26. Nicholson 34. Martin 35. Tapscott 37. Gawn 39. Jetta 42. Spencer 44. Bail Not Good enough ... 6. Bate 7. Bennell 15. Petterd 28. MacDonald 30. Sellar 36. Davey Not sure if they're good enough ... because I haven't seen enough of them 21. Cook 32. Evans 41. Davis 43. Taggart 46. Tynan 47. Couch 48. Fitzpatrick 49. Magner 50. Sheehan 51. Williams Other (retiring/left the club) 18. Green (retiring) 45. Lawrence (gone anyway) There's a couple of players I'm feeling a bit more optimistic about at the moment, but I'm still a little uncertain about them. Players like Dunn and MacDonald have shown real improvement this year. Bartram was also showing some improvement with his disposal, but there are obviously some question marks over his future. I think there are a lot of players that have further development left in them, purely based on the fact that I don't think they've truely been developed until this season. I'm probably a tad optimistic about our list, but I think there's still plenty of growth left in players and that the way the football department is structured and funded now bodes well for the development of the team moving forward.

I wonder how Terry Wallace will view our 2008 drop crop half way through next year. Given the progress of Watts and Blease, and also Strauss improving with each game, those picks aren't looking so bad after all. Sure we could have picked up a Shuey (pick 18), Zaharakis (pick 23), Beams (29) or Hanneberry (30), but we are yet to see how good our trio of top twenty talents can be given the injuries that Blease and Strauss have had to date. But the upward progress is certainly encouraging.

I picked up on that also. I counted at least 4 or 5 times where he made a statement regarding people buying into the system. Maybe a message to some of the more senior players who've struggled this year. I'm thinking about guys like Bate, Beamer, maybe even Morton and Davey.

By the way, I know that pick 13 comes after pick 12, so we're not giving up a higher pick, but we are giving up more when you factor in the additional mature midfielder. Lets not forget that Caddy is far from a proven commodity as well.

Can someone explain to me why, when we need strong mature bodies, we would trade our mid first round pick + one of our strong mature bodies for another young midfielder?? Sylvia has been getting more and more consistent since the mid-season break and is one of the players I believe we need to keep. There are few mid's like him in the league. Beamer would be the one who should go if it came down to those two, but I don't see the sense in giving up a first round pick in a loaded draft (who could turn out to be just as good as Caddy) plus a mature mid, just so we can get another 20 yr old mid? What is the sense in that? I can understand moving pick 13 for Boak, but given we just got Clark for pick 12 last season, please explain to me why Caddy should cost us more than that??

Given Fitzpatrick, Tynan, and Magner have also been named for Casey while Morton, Tapscott, Strauss and Gysberts have not, could this give us a clue as to who will be getting a game. I think it'll be better for Fitzpatrick to keep playing that sole ruck roll in the 2's. He's been improving each week, so why not keep him down there a little bit longer and just get McDonald to pinch hit in the ruck. He played as a ruck/forward in juniors. Alternatively Sellar can pinch hit in the ruck.

Isn't couch back on the rookie list now that Jetta has returned off the long term injured list. Couch would have to get promoted back onto the senior list to get a game.

We should also be careful not to get sucked into recruiting based on dreamteam or supercoach scores.......

2 players over 1 every day of the week, particularly if we are going to be picking early in the draft. However I reckon the best thing for us to do this year is try to finish at 14th of 15th. Then we are only using a 4th or 5th pick on Viney, and get another solid player immediately after him, plus we have a further selection at 12. I don't think that there is much of a difference between players in the top 5 anyway. It would usually just come down to the type of game style the teams are playing and which player fits best for the team.

I'm surprised so few are voting for us to beat Nth. If Nth Melbourne don't pick up their form soon, they will continue their fall down the ladder. I watched some of their game against GC and they were far from convincing. I've gone for 6 wins as I think we can atone for our rnd 1 loss against the Lions, will beat the newbies, Nth and Port. Given our current form, i do not see much of a gap between us and the likes of the bulldogs, port, nth melb, and brisbane.

yeah, i'm interested to know how Gysberts and Strauss went. I can really see those guys making a difference for us when they return to the senior side.

Just to clarify, I probably worded it incorrectly, but it was not my intention to suggest that Watts was playing as a loose man, which is why i said he could pick up whoever is left and play that floater role. He did both on Saturday with great effect. Thanks to his ability to read the play, he floated off his man at times to cut off the entries into the forward 50. He had a number of fantastic defensive actions on Monfries and Watson, and it was great to say that his impact was such that they actually got Monfries to play a defensive role on Watts to reduce his impact