pm24

I get that we are coping criticism for all this, but in the back of my mind I can't help but come back to the fact the we did not do anything illegal. The club used a tactic that a number of teams have in the past. As we keep saying, it is no different to what Collingwood, Hawthorn, Carlton and even St Kilda have done in the past. The AFL created this system, they should have to live with the consequences. The only thing I believe they could sanction us for is "bringing the game into disrepute", but then again on on-field perfomance could be said to have done that regardless of the tanking stuff. However, if we do get sanctioned by the league, it would be overkill if we were to be hit with a penalty greater than that of Adelaide. We worked within the system that the AFL had set up. Adelaide deliberately used outside mechanisms to remunerate a player outside of the cap. I can't help but think that throughout this, there are some personal agendas that are leading the attack rather than trying to achieve any sense of justice.

I'd say the most depressing part about our delisting of Bate is that we could have gotten the Bulldogs 2nd round pick for him last season!!!

It looks like the following experienced players could be available to us: Josh Toy (I think he'd be a good cheap addition), Ben Jacobs, Justin Sherman, Tom Gillies, and some more to come. I would like to see us look long and hard at Toy and even Gillies (for depth). If we could grab Toy, I think our half-back/mids would just get a lot better.

It looks like we effectively used the trade period to move on those players who were contracted and failed to fit within the team's future structure while we could still get value for them. Although I think it was almost a bit of a fire sale when you consider Morton was moved for just pick 88. All-in-all, I think our team is much better balanced then it was at the start of last season. I think everyone we picked up could potentially be in the first 22 round 1 next season.

Sorry Red Demon, but you're not getting it. I wasn't talking about whether gysberts would be on our list, I was meaning whether he would be in our top 22. To me both Viney and Pick #4 would pass him on our depth charts as soon as they walked in the door. Meaning Gysberts would be stuck in the VFL yet again. So we traded one VFL player for another VFL player.

So based on one game you are going to say that Gysberts was going to be a gun player. He had talent, but talent isn't enough to survive anymore. Don't you recall what Brad Green said in one of his interviews after he retired....it was along the lines of "some guys can't rely on getting games on talent alone any more. They need to buy in to what the club is doing!" We have lived in the land of "what could be" long enough. I'm just curious, are you saying that you would prefer to keep gysberts for depth reasons, rather than have a guy come in who could be in our starting 22???

You mean that first-round pick midfielder who couldn't get a consistent game in our best 22, and may not have been in our top 22 this season with Viney and possibly Toumpas/Wines/O'Rourke to come in and take his place? We need to get over the fact that players were drafted in the first round. Morton is also going to the eagles now and he was a Pick 4. But both have failed to developed as hoped and don't play roles that we possibly need at the moment. Would you rather have Viney and a Toumpas/Wines/O'Rourke on the filed or Morton and Gysberts???

I can understand this trade from our perspective. Gysberts strenghts were meant to be around his delivery at stoppages and his clean hands. We now have a great replacement for him in Jack Viney. Yeah he's smaller, but he's tougher, still has fantastic hands, and better foot skills and speed. So, would gysberts have been in our top 22 next season even with a full season....maybe not. We're also gonna grab another top midfield prospect who is likely to be better than gysberts with pick 4. Would you rather Toumpas/Wines/O'Rourke etc etc or gysberts??? From a list management perspective this just makes sense. We fill an area of need, and create space for Viney and our other new draft picks to play. Wait till we see what the draft pick is. If it's a 3rd rounder or above we win IMO.

On Trade Radio a Liam Pickering (Player Agent) has just said that North was also interested in Rodan. Am I alone in feeling happy about this giving they're being unreasonable with their demands for pedersen???

Another example of the club bringing in a player that has been in a successful program and played in a grand final (in 2007). Fill's a need, so a smart move by the club given we gave up practically nothing in pick 88.

I'd prefer to keep pick 28 and move pick 33 to North for Pedersen. However, I don't mind the proposal except the Morton to West Coast part. I would think we could get more than that for Morton given his age and "potential". However, from what you have stated we would end up with Pedersen, Ray, pick 33, 62. I would think that St Kilda would be satisfied by pick 39 alone, rather than needing to move Bennell as well. But, if we're going to delist him anyway, it may not matter.

This is going a bit far. Althought I'm just going to wait and see what Barry becomes, if this years draft was a weaker one like 2003 where guys like Farren Ray, Raph Clarke, Kepler Bradley, David Trotter???, and Kane Tenace were top 10 picks, then Barry could well have been a top 10 pick. This year, from all reports there is a greater amount of top-line talent meaning that Barry wouldn't have gotten a look in as a top 10 pick. But I wouldn't go so far as to suggest he could never have been a top 10 pick ever. The thing that i'm encouraged by, when it comes to Barry, is from the stories that I've read, only last year did he really commit himself to becoming an AFL footballer, and in that one year he made significant strides in his development. I think he could become a good player for us, but as with all draftees, it's going to depend on his work ethic and willingness to improve. BTW, back on topic, I'm not sure if anyone heard wallace yesterday on Trade Radio, but he firmly believes we should take Wines. Don't know why, but he did mention the Viney connection, and how Wines and Jack are great mates. Edit: Sorry guys just realised a few have already mentioned Wallace's comments.

Guys in case you haven't seen it, Nudge said that he wasn't going to posting any more rumors a little while back. The OP was actually updated by Whispering Jack on the 16th of Oct not Nudge. So thanks should also go to Whispering Jack for the update.

I reckon pick 30 is great value for Stefan, considering we got him off the rookie list and he isn't a regular part of the team now. Lets let someone else get enticed by his athleticism and potential, and have the opportunity to grab another young prospect. I just don't see us needing Martin any longer. Not with what Spencer showed late last year, nor Sellar's play. Not to mention the fact that we've still got Gawn and even Fitzpatrick to play in the ruck. If pick 30 is on the table, we should be accepting that straight away.

Sad to see Rivers go, but also can understand his decision. He's stuck with this club through a lot of cr*p and is one guy I really wish the best for. I hope that he gets to experience some successful years at the cats and plays a bit of finals football before he retires. Then once that's done I hope we'll be the one's making regular finals appearances. I wonder if Neeld knew this was on the cards yesterday when he made the comments about Watts being part of the back six....

Ok fair points rpfc. I'll acknowledge I haven't been on this board as long as some, but I get really peeved when people have a go at others and not their opinions. It's just something I have little tolerance for. It's good to hear that some of the behaviours are changing. With a better understanding of the history of all this, I probably would have gone a little easier on you in my last post. This is the first offseason I've been this active on here (I just really get into the Free Agency stuff). So I'll acknowledge my naievity regarding this pattern of behaviour from Nudge and go back into my corner now

So who died and made you King rpfc??? I completely understand why Nudge would decide withdraw from posting what he has heard. Each time he has listed some rumors he has suggested that what he was listing was just what he has heard from around the club and that if people couldn't appreciate it, or were going to just take pot shots at the rumors then he'd probably remove himself. He's just been consistent with those prior statements yet you feel you have a right to come in and have a go at him for doing exactly what he suggested he would do. Yeah this is the internet, but that does not mean that providing others with respect all of a sudden becomes unnecessary. Nor does it provide anyone with a right to have a go at another person. Voice an opinion on the rumor, but don't have a go at the person. Get over yourself will you, and show some respect for people on here (like Nudge) that actually try to contribute for the sake of all on the board. Now don't go getting defensive now......

So we have now got Dawes, Burns, Hogan, Viney, Barry, pick 4, possibly Farren Ray, possibly Pedersen, and then two more draft picks from this Trade/FA period. This is looking to be a very good off-season so far.

Dawes' agent is coming onto TWR now, and has just announced that he will play at Melbourne!!!!

No downside for GWS????? There certainly is if we call their bluff and then they miss out on drafting Lachie Whitfield because they are forced to take Viney, who would then just return to us once his rookie contract comes to an end. I can't help but feel that Viney would basically be telling GC and GWS that he wants to play for the Demons, whether it be now or in two years. Can't help but think that Todd would be helping him out in that area, trying to scare them off.

They were just talking about it on Trade Week Radio, suggesting he was a prime candidate to look for more opportunity at another club. That's the only banter I've heard/read about it.

We've only had one day of free agency so far. Give the guy a break. I can understand him taking his time to make this decision. Leaving the club you've played for for nearly a decade is not an easy choice. If he goes to the Cats I can fully understand as he deserves to get to play finals after such a good career to date.

But how could that possibly be true???? I thought we were sitting on our hands and not putting any effort into getting players to the club, just like the OP said.

If this system is going to work in a similar way to the NBA then a formal offer isn't sent into the league for approval unless the player has approved it. It in no way suggests that other teams haven't tried to recruit that player. It would just be a circus if every team that had an offer for a player had to officially submit that offer to the AFL in order for the player to accept it. In that case we would have multiple clubs officially submitting offers, but which offer would the team who currently has that player have to match. It's nonsensical. I firmly believe that no formal offer would be submitted unless the player/player agents have signed off on it. Therefore, we never know who formally made an offer to the player because we only hear the final transaction. Look at the following article on afl.com http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/148928/default.aspx It seems to support what i'm saying in respect to the offer process. There appears no capacity for another team to lodge an offer with the AFL once one team has lodged it's papers. Therefore this suggests that it is the offer that Pearce/Pearce's management has deemed the best.

You do realise that although Freo put in the official offer to the AFL it doesn't mean that we didn't make a play for him. What the lodgement by Freo means is that they probably have the best offer on the table, or Pearce just prefers them as a destination. It is unlikely that a formal proposal would be put forward without the players approval. How about thinking things through before blindly having a go at the club.