burn in hell

I thought Bartram played a very good game in the back pocket. Layed some heavy tackles and gave plenty of run. May be our best option as a small hard nosed backman. Still has many years ahead of him and hopefully with further confidence may cement his place in the side for years to come.

6. Frawley

5. Trengove

4. Grimes

3. Green

2. Bennell

1. Capt McDonald

Why choose one when we have many:

Grimes

Trengove

Frawley

Morton

Scully

Watts

Jurrah

Wonamirri

Bennell

Sylvia

6. Jamar

5. Davey

4. Petterd

3. Grimes

2. McKenzie

1. Bail

"Burn in Hell", you state you with Bailey until this year.

Is one round all you give him and the players?

What happens if and hopefully when they start to play well, will you be back on him again?

If we went on one game of football, Freo would be one of the flag favourites at this moment, and we know that is not true!

I did not see the Adelaide game, but the other practice matches were pretty bad. Someone else posted something about a lack of soul and spirit. This is what I am truly worried about. I can't go to the Collingwood game this week, I will get too upset, it is now bad for my health, my home life, my work life and my overall optimism for my future happiness. I refuse to watch a spiritless side. I will only come back to the games if I believe in the general (coach), otherwise I am wasting my life and passions. Saturday was absolutely woeful a bloody disgrace, and Bailey post match conference gave the impression he really didnt care. It is more than a game, more like a religion. What i saw was COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

Bring on Viney and the old boys. WE NEED SPIRIT

No its both. In many cases we had kids against men out there. With the senior players there is no excuse. I note Jordie was our highest tackle count with 11. What about the senior players pressure?

At the time of leaving TJ was arguably our most talented midfielder. His off field problems did not dictate that he had to go at all. He was not going to be around when MFC were going to be successdul in future. It was a brave move.

Up to last year McLean was in the top 3 player paid at MFC. MFC offered him a far lower contract and he decided to go. Once again a brave move given we lack experience and mature bodies in the midfield. We could have paid him more (and above his contribution to side) but we stuck to our guns. You just had to read to gush here about Robbo to see that not everyone could see why he had to go.

None of the players you list (ex Frawley) are better than C graders. Some are not even AFL standard. Your list highlights our problem and you cant see it! Its no wonder your confused with whats going on.

I can see why we can't make the finals, but there is no reason that we cant win the hard ball. No excuse. We were pathetic, did you not go to the game?

I think there are a few posters with greater illusions of grandeur!

One of MFC problems is that 1. we dont have enough good mature players and 2. and many of the players who fit that category

except Junior and Green went missing big time on Saturday. We have too many young players exposed at any one time and we aare getting phyisically monstered. Our best players on Saturday were Scully, Trengove, Jordie and Grimes. Great individual pperformance but a very depressing reflection on the "enough good mature players" you think we have.

And Bailey does not have the courage to get rid of good players.... You're kidding..There have been some hard decisions made.... TJ, McLean, Robbo (purely emotional). Also the careful retirement of Neitz, White and Yze.

Neither Meesen or healy are close to an AFL game. Valenti and Buckley arent AFL standard. So I am not sure what the issue is there?

Players getting monstered is not about size but about attitude. Look at James McDonald.

TJ had a problem and had to go, McLean chose to leave and Robbo was getting lazy and big headed, I wouldn't say these decisions were courageous.

Good mature players, let me name a few, Bruce, Green, 2 x McDonald, rivers, warnock, Bate, Petterd, Moloney, Jones, Jamar, Bartram, Frawley, Dunn, Davey. The rest are very talented youngsters. It dosnt bother me that we lose as long as we lose with respect.

12 of those 23 retired

3 left for other clubs

Valenti and Buckley we should have kept instead of keeping Healy & Meeson

and the rest were poor players.

I was with Bailey until this year. The performances of the playing group are unexcusable. Somebody must take responsibility.

We have enough good mature players to avoid such insipid performances.

Certain MFC people might just be having ILLUSIONS OF GRANDEUR.

ps. Voss had the courage to get rid of good players of which we picked up one of his discards. Lets see how well Joel McDonald goes.

The best AFL coaches inspire intensity in their players. Yes, it has got to come from within the individual player, but the coach

plays an essential role in lighting this spark.

It was interesting to listen to 4-time premiership player Martin Pike on SEN the other night discuss exactly this topic.

He said that the teams in which he achieved ultimate success (North Melbourne and Brisbane) both revered and feared

their coaches. He said if Leigh Matthews or Denis Pagan set you a task, you carried it out. No questions asked.

Does Dean Bailey inspire such passion and commitment? That's the key question.

Exactly.

Remember years ago when Schimmelbush coached North. They got flogged in the practice matches, then played Rd1 in Adelaide where were insipid, Got smashed by about 130pts. The players were not inspired by the coach. Coach was sacked, I believe Pagan might have taken over at that time and they won 2 premierships in the next decade.

Nice call.

Re: the OP,

Bailey would happily be demoted to Development Coach??

Did you even think things through, or just hurriedly post cos you wanted to get it out there before the idea leaked out of your brain..?

It is evident that the performances of 2010 are lacking intensity. Bailey is responsible for that. Remember, he intentially lost games for us last year so he could get his draft picks for the club. Lets give him the opportunity of developing them.

We have signed him for 2 years, right?

He is not going to get a senior AFL position anywhere else.

There is alot of talk about Bailey's performance as senior coach, however, we may agree that he is a good development coach. MAKE HIM DEVELOPMENT COACH and let him work with the young players that he has already invested 2 years of time. By having him as development coach, we can kinda honor his 2 year contract, and our money does not entirely go to waste.

VINEY FOR COACH

Fooball Manager: Connolly

Assitants; Lovell, Yates, Lyon, West

Development Coach; Bailey

Fitness; Tingay

Lets have as many MFC boys creating the future spirit of the playing group.

Rock'n'Roll, DEMONTIME!!!!

Roost It; you are absolutely spot on with your analysis. Bailey has had a complete clean out, a complete rebuild, this will take time. 2 years and 1 round is nowhere near enough time to expect any sort of improvement especially considering that in 2008 we had a mature list and now we almost only have inexperienced kids.

In 1981 when Barrassi took over he started a similar rebuild. It was long, slow and painful and in 1986 after 5 seasons of rebuild the Barrassi experiment was considered a failure. Melbourne was awful in 1981 winning just one game by 1 point against the second worse team (Bulldogs) with a Robert Flower goal after the siren from 50 meters out on the boundary. Before the 1982 season Melbourne went on a spending spree buying a number of A grade players and became competitive winning between 6 and 9 games for the following 5 seasons. However they also stepped up their youth policy even going as far as Ireland to collect the best 16, 17 & 18 year olds they could get their hands on. It was these kids recruited by Barrassi that went on and made 5 consecutive finals series between 1987 and 1991 including one GF and 3 Preliminary Finals. Melbourne had to wait for their Barrassi kids to reach 21 - 26yo before any meaningful results were seen, however there were signs as early as 1984. Barrassi left a failure but time showed he was in fact the architect of a new period of success that was desperately unlucky not to produce a premiership.

Getting stuck into Bailey at this point is simply wrong and counterproductive. We are all disappointed with last weeks result, we all want to see improvement, but this is what we signed up for when we embarked on a full rebuild and every supporter who has been following what has been going on must know this and lower their expectations accordingly. Its boy’s v men at the moment. Blow outs and inconsistency will occur and are part of the growing process.

We are doing the right thing and the MFC will be rewarded for this in time. But it will take time and we must suck up these hard times and believe in our future, back our coach and understand that this is a 5 year plan. The only way this rebuild is likely to fail is if we get off the course we have already set.

Now stop winging and toughen up! We all need to be in this for the long haul.

How many times did Ron Barrassi's team get thrashed. How many times were they insipid and pathetic?

Not many

So if Bailey is out by round three should we throw the players out with him? Maybe we can spit on on them as we toss them out!

Why is it any more important for Bailey than the players? The players are just as accountable as the coach

The fish rots from the head. Cut the head stop the rot.

He may do enormous damage to the mentallity of the playing group, the supporters and the club.

I said it before and I'll say it again, We need Todd Viney.

Bailey is in trouble.

This week will see if he has lost the players faith.

A big game for MFC, a huge game for Dean Bailey.

If we are pathetic again, and then again against adelaide, He wil be gone before we play Richmond.

Look out Todd Viney and Co.

Bailey's press conference after the game was calm and easy. Just another practice match for him, with a further 2 years on his contract. No rush, no pressure, no will to win. Just another mediocre week at the office. No sweat, no emotional involvement. I tell ya, when we put in an effort like that, I am depressed for a week. I can't hold my anger and frustration in check. I don't think the bloke is normal. He did not even seem upset. I am sorry, but the bloke dosnt represent the MFC or the passion of red&blue faithful. I want the old boys from the good old days when we fought for victory or punched on for respect. The blokes like Stynes, Viney, Yeates, Lyon, Neitz, Swartz Tingay and so on. Not an Essendon boy who couldn't hold his spot.

Malthouse is from another tribe, stuff him.

We need Viney as coach. An animal who bled for the faithful. A proven warrior and general. Someone we can really get behind.

I have been fooled for too long. I want to see real footy again. Hard nosed, hard at it, attacking footy. Todd Viney's skills were sub standard, but he was a champion and captain because he knew what footy was about. DESIRE. Get him in to coach us. We have enough good experienced players to win games. Todd has had a very good caoching apprenticeship, Hawthorn premiership side and now Adelaide. I have lost faith in Bailey.

Bailey is Done.

I can't pretend anymore.

We have put alot of time into Jamar and Johnson, now they are at the age that we will see dividends and some people want to throw them away. I do not understand your logic. They just might be good strong ruckmen until for the next 5 years until Gawn and Fitzpatrick take over. Seems like a good succesion plan to me. Dappa Dan is correct, Johnson and Jamar have played enough good games and shown enough positive signs to suggest they can handle the big occasions on a consistant basis. If not, bring in Spenser, Martin, Gawn and Fitzpatrick. Out ruck depths are good, I like what we have got. Still I reckon Jamar might be good at full forward. Why can't they play to their potential every week, maybe thay can. High Tower suggest we should consider trading Johnson, maybe to Sydney like we did with Jolly, perhaps?

I would be happy to rove to Johnson and Jamar. They are tough competitors that can go forward. You can have your Kruzer or Warnock, I'll stick with Jamar and Johnson.

Johnson beat Sandilands in the last game he played. need I say more.

too many negative melb supporters. grow some balls.

Paul Johnson beat the leagues best ruckmen Sandilands in the last game he played. Paul Johnson is way under-rated, from my perspective, he covers the ground well, is hard at it, can kick goals, can take marks and he can beat Sandinlands in ruck contests.

Jamar is a tough man who has got a great leap and a strong pair of hands. He is good in ruck contests aswell.

We are also developing Spenser and Martin, Gawn, Fitz.

RELAX, we have got depth in our ruck stocks.

Dunn must have the shut down role on Mitchell and Hodge.

Dunn is a big surprise.

Maybe to tagg mitchell @ Hodge and go forward if need be.

Big opportunity for him.

Martin in the backline? Where would you put him, more importantly, who would you leave out? Frawley, Rivers or Warnock, not to mention Garland when he comes back. Martin's only viable spot is Ruck/resting FF.

Miller's best game is when he works his ass off leading up the ground then doubling back, again and again and again. He straitens us up at CHF and gives us some oomph.

Bartram was a revelation in his first year. I would not write him off yet. He has the ability to be a tagger like Clinton Jones or Baker (stkilda) We need hard c*nts more than anything.

Jamar must be given a chance at full forward after kicking 5 against the Blues,He is a very strong mark, is a good kick and can definetly take Gibson so as to let Bate take 3rd string backman. Petterd is good up forward as his pre-season form suggests, Bate is a very good forward, Miller is under-rated and much needed, Green is an A-Grade player, and Jones is 21 years old and may develop into a Chapman, I reckon he's a champ. Martin can swap to the full forward line, however, I have not seen Spenser do anything up forward.

Bartram killed it against the bombers in the pracky match, is dogged and hard nosed, will be able to tag mitchell and Hodge. Maric did not have a good pre-season, must proove himself in the 2's. Bartram is better than McKenzie. Green is too valuable up the field, getting the ball into our forward 50, and kicking long goals.

Martin will get confidence from taking on the hawks dud ruckmen. Martin has plenty of upside (he played [censored] against the weagles tho) but I reckon a dominant performance against the dawks may prove invaluable. He has a basketball background and sometimes looks a little scared, he needs to get over that. we need Paul Johnson back. He is way under-rated.

Rather optimistic, if you ask me. You're exaggerating the abilities of a forward line that's struggled to get to double figures for years, including this pre-season.

Our genuinely 'experienced' players have been little more than good honest journeymen over the last two years, with the possible exceptions of Davey and Sylvia, who's out.

Selecting Jamar at FF and Bartram even in the 22 is not good sense. Spencer would be a better bet than Martin in the ruck, and Jamar should be first ruck despite the (possibly, no probably, illusory) impression he created against Carlton last year. I suppose you're hoping to take advantage of Hawthorn's mediocre defence with a tall FF. As a bounce ruckman Jamar's in the top bracket. Martin will struggle to match even the rookie spuds Hawthorn play in the ruck. If he's in the team Martin should be in defence. I'd much prefer to see Jamar or Spencer in the pocket when resting beside Green at FF.

I'd have Maric ahead of Bartram any day; some are keen on McKenzie, although I'm not sure whether both he and Spencer could come out of the rookie list.