stueyspencer no12

In the match v Adelaide in May 2011. Wet day yet we won by nearly 100 points. Where did Adelaide finish this year? Or by a similar margin v Freo later in the year. How did they go this year? How did we go against Swans in R1 last year You and BenHur say it was necessary for us to plummet whilst those 3 clubs prospered? Why? Why not address the weaknesses whilst maintaining a strength, ie a highly capable attacking capacity. I don't accept you have to get rid of a strength to correct a weakness, you guys apparently do.

Ben hur effectively says that I've lost the plot, that I fail to see what wonderful developments have occurred under Neeld. As to 1 point you are correct mate. I see NONE! And I hate the tendency of those on this site to bag previous coaches. I might be wrong but I think that in the r22 match of 2010, NM did play a more experienced side than MFC, but even if I,m wrong, it was a pretty good game. In that season Dees beat Swans by 100 plus with Morton playing a cracking game on Goodes. Ever since I've known that he CAN play. In 2010 we also drew with Cwood and lost to them by a point. Then in 2011 we beat 3 teams including Adelaide by 90 plus, with of course the Russian suffering a serious injury in that match. In my opinion the awful loss to Geelong caused repercussions which were way over the top. In the 1980s Ess under Sheedy lost by 160, but did they sack him? I might be wrong but I will always think that if Jimmy had been in good health Bailey would not have been sacked summarily. Sure there were problems. I agree that defensively we were poor particularly in midfield. These were glaring issues to be addressed including, it is suggested,, fitness. In any field of endeavor I do not rate the new coach, CEO, manager or whatever who feels the need to make his mark by getting rid of the most senior people in the organization. Just as Sanderson has done in Adelaide Neeld should have gathered the senior players around him, got the best out of them for a year and then made decisions. Instead in my view he decided to downgrade, humiliate even certain players. Why on earth should Green- a decent character if ever there was one- have been left out of the leadership group.? I consider the playing list has gone back considerably. Could any of you, honestly, have envisaged we'd go out of our way to recruit 3 mature players who had been or were about to be delisted? Anyway I hope I'm quite wrong. Membership renewed I will be there urging them on as usual

Good on you Ron if you think that the coach will make a difference! Was it his coaching this year which has inspired you? Was it, perhaps, the new gameplan? Or the brilliance of our recruiting which enabled us to, effectively, buy 3 fellows who had been, or were about to be delisted? Or the pinpointing of our major weakness, ie, the midfield and the expert recruiting which has lead to the result that in R1 of 2013 we will have the same midfield as in 2012,except for Viney, but minus Moloney, our best and fairest in 2011. Truly, without optimists this site would be dead. We need you mate

WJ, Have you thought of sending this to the Editor at The Age? We have no concrete evidence that he preuses Demonland in his spare time! I think that he should be politely referred to the recent evidence, and the previous attitude of the AFL to Carlton's efforts

Come on, quit this hypocrisy. Chasing these parasites legally? What does that mean--chasing Schwab and Connolly? This site howled down anyone who protested that a decision not to pursue every game would be damaging to morale and particularly for the players. I wrote that notto attempt to win every match would be destructive of the fibre of the club In response Beelzebub wrote a most persuasive piece designed to show how the acquisition of guns-as opposed to merely good players-- was absolutely vital to the future of the club. And he had overwhelming support. For people on this site to look for scapegoats would be outrageous.

No it won't take too long. Unless it can be shown that players on the field were instructed not to try I believe we will be cleared. And my impression is that this was not the case, the effort they put into the WC match the week after Jimmy's shock announcement was total. Remember guernsey 37 being waved around by the players after the siren?

Excellent! I was worried he might be a mid year proposition.

Simon Buckley! Is exactly what we need, fast ,breaks lines and has developed almost elite kicking skills. Bursting to be used as a midfielder but when you compete with Swan,Pendlebury,Beams,Wellingham,Thomas etc, what chance do you have? He has had a large number of games in just about the best team in the comp, cf Rodan who couldn't get a game in a very poor one. I would grab him like a shot--still popular also with his previous team mates

Petterd had an Achilles injury documented in the Club report. Again I say have you ever played anything with an Achilles problem

Well, seriously, what IS the game plan? Compared with the previous season it seemed to involve; Kick it close to the boundary line Concentrate on contested possession. Quit this nonsense of creating the loose man with handball! (if you want to continue to bag DB have a look at Dees v Swans in 2010, or Dees v Adelaide 2011) Ignore forwards other than Clark (in the first few matches they repeatedly kicked it over Watts' head when he made possession) Make Tapscott play out of possession. Does no-one recall the first games he played in 2011 deep on the back line? And basically destroy the self-esteem of the few senior players on the list, eg Moloney.

He was injured for Pete's sake. An Achilles injury.Ever tried to play anything with a damaged Achilles?

Well someone suggests I buy in or bugger off! Having been a member for 40 odd years it's unlikely I will do that.indeed I'm signed up for 2013, and I desperately hope I'm wrong. Leaving aside my views as to the coach, does anyone dispute that we've downgraded the senior players since the beginning of this year? Moloney,Green,Davey, and now Rivers. All leaders in 2011. Does anyone dispute that we've recruited a number of players who couldn't get a game at their previous clubs? Byrnes,Pedersen,Rodan. Even Dawes who looks a good type and may add to leadership was dropped before the finals was he not? Gysberts and Petterd both had almost zero preseason. The Club, in it's review mentioned Petterd's Achilles problems. At their relative ages I rate Petterd and Gysberts as better prospects than Rodan. This afternoon I've watched the match v Richmond early last season. As with so many matches we were THRASHED around the packs. In the 3rd quarter inside 50s were 24/3. Yet what has been done to address this greatest weakness? Sure, in time Viney will no doubt help. But shouldn't this have been the top priority? For those who think I am wrong re the coach, and again I hope I am wrong, isn't it true that we plummeted last year? And, please tell me, what exactly is the game plan? Having seen every game live or on tv I say quite honestly that I had no idea. And neither,I believe did the players

So it's Martin for pick 53 because they won't use 73. Just an extraordinary move. He brought much versatility to the list. No- one here has mentioned our need for a tall defender. Several years ago we correctly asserted that we had a great defense. Though he had limitations Warnock had value against the real talls;kept Petrie to zero at Docklands one day. Now we've lost both him and RIv. Martin who played bloody well as a defender in his early days and is significantly taller than Pedersen, could have been thrown into this role against the Hales, Tippetts, VIckery etc. And he stll might have been our best ruck option. Anyone certain that Jamar,Gawne,andSpencer will be fit on any particular day?

I think it is a total disaster. I suspect we have a coach with a massive inferiority complex. Don't forget that Bailey won 8 and a half matches with the youngest list imaginable. He's sacked and his replacement has won 4 including 1only against the real teams. Did Sanderson feel the need to get rid of half of Adelaide's list? We beat Adelaide by 100 points in 2011,they finished 3rd this year while we plummeted. Neeld appears to need to establish that those who went before him were hopeless. He downgraded all the senior players including those who'd won the bluey the 3 preceding years. And now he's gone about recruiting fellows who can't get a game elsewhere. My assessment; Byrnes possibly ok-paid v little, Dawes, paid way over. No21 for him when Wellingham was 13 and Cwood rated him so poorly they recruited a 30 yo instead. Viney, well done. Hogan, time will tell. Rodan--inexplicable! At 29 he keeps a kid such as Evans off the list. Pedersen--was it 3 games this year? Morton, has the potential to rub our noses in it. Got 90 odd disposals in his first 3 games, disappointing since but needed coaching not clearance. Gysberts, diito. Hopelessly interrupted preseason in 2012. Martin, biggest blunder of all! Versatile, could have played a crucial big defender role, now we've lost Warnock and Rivers. In a number of games this year got 20 plus hit outs and as many disposals , quite remarkable for someone of his size. Sure he was still learning, again, needed coaching and assistance, not clearing. Loved the club, is bitterly upset. Sorry all but the coach is a dud! When we pay him out at the end of this season, we wil look back at a disastrous October 2012

I like this a lot. Well done mate.

no--damn it--you can't just treat an injury list like ours as being something to "forget" It's ridiculous and it's irritating that a decent gutsy performance gets treated like this. Simply--we ran out of players who could play 120 minutes--sorry because it's likely to happen for the next week or 2. JUST AS IT HAPPENS TO OTHER CLUBS WHO HAVE 5 OF THEIR BEST 10 OUT. Footscray hard hit today by injury--what happened to them? Freo equally hard hit last week, kiled by W.C. Defence without Grimes/Garland, loses Tapscott after 10. Yes I know we have to find players to replace them--we hadn't lost them 2 weeks ago! Give the club a break!

You are dead `right! A bit of sense creeping in at last!

Wel Are you saying they gave up? I reckon you'd get a decent response if you put that to the players. In the last 10 minutes I saw Moloney charging the packs in desperation, ditto Jones and Evans.Why is it when a team loses some frustrated fans`accuse `them of squibbing it? Did Adelaide squib it today when 'they allowed" Collingwood to come from 23 points down to a 47 point win? In 20 minutes? Of course they didn't.I heard a player interviewed after the match and he was plainly destoyed. I saw, and have seen absolutely no evidence of a lack of team spirit or hardness at the ball.If you've been watching 47 years I promise you the game has changed. 20 years ago, if level at half time you didn't lose by 8 goals at home, but the Swans `did today. Sides get momentum which is bloody hard to stop-it's happening pretty much to all teams at some stage. Footscray lose by 125--did they give up? Renowned for their fighting spirit. A couple of weeks ago I mentioned Viney's account of the Hawks, the year before they won the flag, losing by 125 points against P.A in Adelaide.There were calls for Clarkson's head. Good calls?

Well I accept that you honestly hold these views, but I can't believe it! Further on in this thread, Deeflated [or is it Deflating?] says that although we now have some injuries, we were ordinary before we got them I couldn't go yesterday-watched every minute on Ch 10, with some pretty decent commentators. Andy Maher, before the game, commented on our injured list, thought we would struggle. Ditto after every break especially after we lost Tapscott. In fact thought that our performance was remarkable. So did I. It's not the number of players missing injured/suspended--it's the quality of those players.In Scully Trengove Jamar, Grimes one lists 4 of Melbourne's best 8--agreed? Then add Garland and you have 5 out of our best 10--agreed? Then throw in Dunn, Bail, Wonnamiri and you have 2 more of our best 22--agreed? Then throw in Spencer and you mention the most likely replacement for Jamar--agreed? And then you lose Tapscott after 10 minutes. I don't follow St K but apart from Lenny Hayes, who were they missing from their best 22? How many from their best 8? Driving home from the bush today I heard the ABC commentary team mention--at 3 quarter time-- how much Collingwood were missing Jolly, Brown and Johnson [and I recall another defender from the G-F team whose name I can't recal] was also missing.Must say I nearly drove off the road I was honestly feeling so sorry for them!. No middling team can lose that percentage of its best players and hope to do well. I've known bad injuries before but never a fortnight in which we've lost so many--we played Adelaide [remember this Deeflated] with only 2 out of our best missing and won by 96. Earlier that week I met Viney at a function plus several players whom I won't mention. I was impressed by their absolute determination to succeed--it was after the W.C game, they felt humiliated. Against Adelaide Davey was `excellent, creating havoc with long, magnificent kicks to players running forward. We saw him get injured early last week, thereafter his speed was down. He was plainly uncomfortable yesterday and I'm bloody certain that if it hadn't been for our injured list he would not have played. As to the incident in the 2nd quarter I thought that he simply misjudged the position of the ball, and at the last minute went up one-handed to try to knock it away, realising he wasn't going to mark it. I mention this because on this post and others he's copped so much [censored]. He is an outstanding player, has kept his head up through some awful games and for people to be so critical is pathetic.Yes I know Bailey didn't mention an injury--he doesn't want to, because he wants him to play on Friday night. Why are so many of us so bloody angry?People slagging off Jones for heavens sake!, Get a grip on it, cool it, do what you will but stop being so bloody negative. Barely a mention of the great debut of Evans-- a rookie. I promise you, any raised voices about Bailey leaving mid-season are destructive. Absolutely nothing to be gained and an absolutely diabolical outlook for the players.With this injury list how can Bailey be in jeopardy? Voss was in jeopardy last week--today he is` riding high. God the football media is hopeless!

You are dead right! A friend with me was watching Newton carefully for a long period in the last quarter. Martin was hobbling at F F. Newton had to ruck, alone, for a long period. Got beaten, of course, but we were impressed how hard he battled on. Got some kicks, got nearly killed falling back into a pack. Is now a player I think

Someone once told me that, like Rowers, Ruckmen are a bit thick!I think this proves that my advisor was right.Apparently even retired 20 year ruckman have difficulties! To have played the game he did, with damaged ribs, was remarkable. he plainly lacks confidence at this stage having played in so many roles--incidentally, can anyone recall him playing badly as a tall defender, albeit rather defensively? Give him a break for pete's sake!

That's rubbish! If he's fit he must play.Has been playing so much better this year until W.C. That's why so many of us were stunned he was dropped. And in response to a later post--yes Bate should be dropped for Newton. We need as many chaps as possible to do a bit of ruck work. I recall Newton was a cause of Collingwood's loss of confidence in Josh Fraser last year--in R2 Newton beat Fraser quite frequently in the centre of the ground [to everyone's amazement]