DirtyDees DDC

An interesting comment from the West Coast - Adelaide game tonight. The commentators said that Sanderson was fortunate to take over an Adelaide side that had such an excellent fitness base - due to Neil Craig. This meant Sanderson was able to spend much of the pre-season working on structures and game plans.

I don't think Neeld had the same luxury - which explains all the lap work we did before the NAB cup.

Maybe this means we have to be patient and wait for better performances.

I feel sorry for the players. They went through their toughest pre-season ever and still got hammered.

On a possible good note, we had seven top 20 draft picks missing from last Saturday's match due to injury or form - Morton (no 4 pick), Gysberts (12), Cook (12), Grimes (14), Blease (17), Tapscott (18) and Strauss (19).

Will the inclusion of these guys make any difference? Probably not at the moment. Even Grimes was part of the team that got pasted by the Hawks in round 2 last year.

Our biggest problem is we are not turning out top grade players. I look at Zaharakis (B&F at Essendon 2011), Rockliff (B&F Brisbane 2011) and Nat Fyfe of Freo - 3 footballers that we missed in recent drafts - and wonder whether we just recruited badly, or we have been unable to develop the current list. I suspect it's a bit of both.

Imagine if Rockliff, Zaharakis and Fyfe were in our midfield last Saturday night.

Less that 2 years ago we played Hawthorn in the 3rd last round (2010) and we just got beaten by 21 points - and we were competitive for most of the day.

How have our skills slipped so far behind the Hawks in that time?

I'm certain they weren't that good at kicking the ball two years ago. They seem to have collectively improved their disposal - they are probably the best in the league - so how did they do it? And how did everyone miss Suckling in the draft?

As for us - we seem to fall into the mistake of taking the quick option, instead of trusting our team-mates to set us up into a better position to dispose the ball. The end result - we always look like we are rushing the kick. I hope that's the excuse for the younger guys like Nicholson, but I have trouble explaining such poor disposal from seasoned players like Sylvia, Moloney and Davey.

I don't know how we improve our poor skill levels, but Hawthorn has done it. There must be a way. Perhaps our team needs to develop confidence and trust in each other, so they can receive a pass and know they will not be under the pump when they try to pass it on. They say it takes 1-2 years for a team to adjust to a new game plane, and Neeld's is very different to Bailey's.

I'm trying to be optimistic. Gee it's hard after tonight's match.

We beat them in 3 of the 4 quarters and would have won that game by 5 goals except for some howling mistakes at the end of each quarter.

A special mention must go to Jones. He looked like he could step up a level this year. A lot of our guys are taking the quick option but I thought Jones's decision making and execution was very good tonight.

There was a lot to like, and a lot to work on, but it was a great result considering we have our club Family day at Luna Park tomorrow.

That's all very well but does it mean disregarding the current crop? Like it or not, the MFC is building up a reputation of shafting its senior players, including the most dedicated (J Mac, Beamer). I understand the need to look ahead but I still think it's a very rough end of the stick, particularly for those who actually performed well last season.

Maybe they did well in some areas and poorly in others.

The club has picked the 8 best leaders - not the 8 best players or the 8 most senior. They possibly have gone for a list of 8 with strong positives but also few negatives (apart from Bartram's kicking for goal!).

My concern is that 5 of the 8 were on the paddock that day at Geelong. They may be among the 8 best leaders at the club, but the still have a bit to learn.

Good report WJ. I think it's Josh Tynan, not Luke, but yes he got a bit of it.

I liked the way he covered his tracks. If he missed the mark, he made a big second or 3rd effort to get the ball, or knock it away from the opposition.

The negative for me was the numbers still in rehab. I would have loved to watch Taggart, Magner, Evans, Williams and the others. Maybe they looked at Magner's highlights reel (the one where he tackled opponents to death) and decided to leave him in his cage for another week.

The positive? I didn't laugh or cry or shake my head. I previously watched last years session at Gosch's Paddock and was like watching the keystone cops - just a comedy of errors.

There was still a few skill errors yesterday - a few dropped marks and kicking out on the full - but they were in low risk areas with plenty of support from the numbers at the ball.

Morton - got tackled a couple of times - didn't panic - kept his hands free and got the ball to a teammate. He needs confidence more than muscles.

They did 8 x 7 minute sessions yesterday with no interchange, and they were down to 13 per side by the last sessions so the game opened up a bit.

Next week we'll have 34 guys on the park. It will be interesting to watch.

The suggestion is we are trying to get a Chinese company over the line.

I have a modest amount of dealings with Chinese companys and no where near this value level.

However what I do know is that they will take their time, they do not operate on the same time scale as Barbarians.

With the amount of money involved they will not care that the season is only a few weeks away.

They will make the decision in their own time.

This will be a very delicate situation

If it takes 2 months that is the time frame.

If you push you will lose.

If it is a large amount by a major company we will just have to suck it up and wait.

If the MFC pulls it off they will have made a very big score.

To my knowledge there are no Chinese sponsors anywhere in the Australian landscape.

So Harcourt take a bex and have a good lie down.

Believe me the last thing you would do is push for a decision.

I believe the Chinese businessmen also prefer to do business with the person rather than the company. This would mean they negotiate with Cameron Schwab and rely on the good faith and word of CS, instead of dealing with the MFC. I also agree that negotiations that can take a long time.

And yes, High Tower the "vibe" was good.

The vibe? - lots of talk from the general group, and the usual funnies from Jack Watts. Misson said to everyone at the end of the session "get your running shoes on" so Jack feigned a hammy. Misson was just joshing.

Davey, Rivers and Moloney all took part in the main group, but it's hard to tell if they were less vocal than usual.

Strauss trained with the main group for the full session. That's a fantastic effort to come back from such a bad injury.

Sellar can at least kick the ball, and has hardly missed a session since arriving from Adelaide. The NAB cup will determine if he plays round one.

Cook is also coming back from injury so it was good to see him get through the session. He missed one low mark and cursed himself. He will probably get a run in the NAB cup.

Yes I agree with the long kicking into the forward line, and a few missed marks. We are still a work in progress in this area.

They picked the right day to train at Casey.  We had big storms yesterday in Melbourne  but the squad was blessed with perfect conditions this morning - 20 degrees, blue skies and no breeze.  

 

The good news - all 8 of our new leadership team were in the main training group.  Clark and Bartram were in the rehab group last week, but they stayed for the first half of today's session, together with Davey.  This gang of 3 then finished early and walked a couple of precautionary laps.  

 

Once again the rehab group included Tapscott, Sylvia and McKenzie, plus Spencer Jurrah, Evans and Williams, with new boys Taggart and Tynan getting a break from the main group. 

The encouraging news is that the coaches who were overseeing the rehab session told Misson they were pleased with their progress, and that some of the rehab group are not far from getting back into the main group.

My concern is that Jurrah, Tapscott, Sylvia and McKenzie should all be pushing for selection in the seniors,  but they have all missed a lot of pre-season work. The earlier reports indicate they have spent very little time training with the main group.   At least they have eight weeks till the first match.

Green was absent, and Jetta trained with the main group but wore the green OH&S vest (do not tackle).

 

The advantage of Casey is the main group can train on one oval while the rehab group can train on the oval next door. This allows the senior group use all of the main oval during the match practice.

 

They started with the kicking drill where the ball is kicked to allow the target to run to space, then the target passes it to a direct lead from another target. At least I hope that was the plan - a few kicks went wide of the intended targets but i'll assume that was the aim of the session. .  

 

They then split into 2 groups of 2 teams  and went through a handball drill for about 20 minutes.  The team with the ball had to handball quickly under pressure and either kick a goal or hit one of the two portable targets.  They could run and carry the ball, but they could also get tackled.  No sign of tennis balls, unlike last year.

 

Then we had at least three match practice sessions of about 10 minutes each, interrupted by a review of each session by the coaching staff.  Clark was matched against Frawley in the first session and what a difference it makes to finally have a target on the forward line.  In one play, Martin got the loose ball on the forward flank, then broke clear and passed to Clark who marked and goaled from the opposite pocket.

 

They struggled to score goals in the final match practice sessions,  and I didn't get a sense of a 'wow!' factor from the group.  They definitely look fitter and will apply more contested pressure this year,  but they still dropped marks and missed targets.   To safeguard against these errors, the ball was moved around both flanks from defence, rather than up the corridor. If the contest started on the wing, the ball was passed to someone like Bate or Moloney who could kick it long to the forward line.  They finished off the session with the players breaking into 5-6 smaller groups for specialised training such as goal shooting or kicking for goal.

 

The highlight? - Jurrah.  He walks back from rehab. He's still got the cast on his wrist. He picks up a ball on the boundary line of the main oval - 30 metres out from goal.  He takes a couple of steps then bends the ball right-to-left and curls it through the goal.  On his left foot!!!   He's bent a reverse punt on his non-preferred foot.

No wonder he was posing for photos and signing copies of his new book.

My concern with Bartram is his fitness -he's rumoured to have long-term issues with his knee. I believe he had some work done prior to Christmas and has been stuck in the rehab group for the past few weeks.

The relatively young age of the captains doesn't worry me. We have the 4th youngest list in the AFL so it fits with our future development.

Some have questioned Clark, but we needed a guy from the forward group who will be around for the next few years and will play a pivotal role in our forward set-up.

Green and Davey just don't tick all the boxes here. It doesn't matter that he hasn't played a game with the Dees. Look at Judd at Carlton.

Also - 8 guys in the leadership group. That just leaves 14 positions to be filled. We could have a very experienced side playing for Casey this year.

For those that can't listen, will provide updates for ya. Look forward to hearing CAPTAIN JACK!

Are you suggesting that 'Captain Jack' is a slang term for something? haha

It was also a track on Billy Joel's 'Piano Man' album.

Of the 8 members of our new leadership group, 5 were present at the 186 match in July.

Garland , Frawley, Jamar, Jones, and Trengove.

Of the 4 guys demoted, 3 played that day - Green, Rivers and Moloney who left the field at 1/2 time without touching the ball. Maybe that performance stuffed his chances this year

Davey, Grimes and Bartram were injured dnp.

Looks like we will have lots of leadership down the back this year.

Of the 8 in the leadership group - Frawley, Grimes, Bartram and Garland train with the defensive squad;

Jamar, Jones and Trengove are in midfield, and

Mitch Clark represents the forwards.

I just have a feeling that Grimes will stay with the backline at least for this year. He's had 4 interrupted years and was with the rehab group till Christmas, so he might not be fit enough to do the extra running required in midfield at the moment.

Mitch is going to be the key target up forward. His job will be to lead and organise the other forwards, so it makes sense to make him a part of the leadership group. It may not necessarily be to score the most goals.

I agree that some of the former leadership group have paid the price for our performances last year, and not just the 186 match. Good. A lot of the old coaching panel have paid the price too.

Bartram is interesting. There was an earlier thread that named Jamar, Trengove, Frawley and Bartram as the only listed players who were guaranteed of getting a game in round one. The coaching panel love him. They really really do love him.

I would have liked someone to ask specifically about what went wrong that weekend at Geelong. However i doubt if the club would have provided the full story in an open forum.

We might find out more if CS resigns at the end of his contract on October.

I haven't been checking this thread all season. I've jumped on the 49ers bandwagon so it's good to see us make the Championship game (that game against New Orleans was amazingly good. Amazingly).

Can't believe NYG beat Green Bay. Like WJ, I hate the Giants (don't know why, I just do. Hate Tom Coughlin, for one), but more than that, I just didn't see a side beating the Packers any time soon. Good on them, but I sure hope we cream them this week.

As for the AFC, whilst Baltimore's defence is strong, their offence was pretty poor against the Texans, and I don't think they'll score enough points to rival the Pats, who will score against the Raven defence anyway. Brady's in good form.

Sad but not surprised that the Packers lost, despite a 15-1 win loss record during the regular season. Their defence was poor for most of the season and they dropped crucial catches during their match against the Giants. The thing they need most is a good running back so they can chew up game time at crucial moments.

The giants also carried good form into the finals. I still think the Patriots will win but this could be another close super bowl. Roll on Monday Feb 7.

Obviously this is just a snapshot of Collingwood training compared with ours, but I think it highlights a difficulty we will have throughout this year. Certainly against the better sides, and possibly early on in the year against the mid-lower sides.

I'll use StKilda under Ross Lyon as an example. I remember very clearly that Lyon's first year in charge of the Saints started off very slowly. I can't remember where they finished, but I'm fairly sure they took a step backwards after some decent years leading up to his appointment. His game plan took a while to catch on with the playing group. That was with a team that was already performing at a good level.

Our team has been pathetic for years. We have no out and out stars. We have a new coach and a number of kids still learning the game who have to learn a completely new game plan. We may be doing everything right on the track and be heading in the right direction, but my concern is that come round 10, we could be going alright but still be 2-8 just based on the fact that we haven't perfected our new gameplan.

Collingwood are now just a classy unit who have been well trained and matured together. Their training (albeit one session noted by one supporter) can easily be dedicated to refining an already proven formula. We, on the other hand, are still teaching new tricks to VERY raw little boys in an AFL sense. We're a long way behind the best teams still. To suggest we are finals contenders in our first year with a new coach after being perennial underperformers is, I think, a bit optimistic, Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it, I'm just not getting my hopes up.

I only saw about 10 minutes of Collingwood, but if their goal was to hit targets they were certainly succeeding.

I was a little disappointed that we spent much of yesterdays session doing laps. I wanted to see a bit more action, but I'm not privvy to Misson's exercise book. Be interesting to see what we do in the next 3 weeks before the intraclub match on 17 feb.

I don't expect to see him on the park this year but I'd be interested in people's first impressions of Tynan to all those who have been to our sessions over the last couple of months.

He trained with the main group and did a 3 way kicking drill with Tom Mac and one of the coaches at the end of the session. He's just a kid at this stage, but that haircut surely needs work. It reminded me of one of the Hobbits.

how could this team not have Howe?

I think i picked that side based on height, weight and games, but yes ...Howe would be a certain starter. Interesting that he had a short session today. This could just be a good example of load management by the MFC.

A couple of other quick observations:

James Magner was running in the elite first group. He has endurance as well as strength.

Clark shows promise. His kicking- short and long - looks a feature of his game, and I remember him nailing a goal from the angle outside 50m against us in a pre-season match last year. He also marked against Leigh Brown in the one-on-one duels. I know we paid a lot for him, but he could be a bargain.

Thanks DD.

Strauss, Davey and Grimes did the full session on Monday so I'd imagine it was load management. Was McKenzie in the main group?

No. Still in rehab, and was spotted later riding a bike, together with Grimes and Spencer. Sylvia and Lawrence started in the main group.

It was a slightly shorter session than 12 Dec 2011. Warm-up jogging commenced at 9.30 and the list was broken up into two groups - the main group, and a rehab group of 11 which included all the usual suspects - Tapscott, Strauss, Spencer, Davey, Williams, Grimes, Evans, Jamar, Grimes, Jurrah and Bartram. Missing in action were Gawn and Jetta. The rehab group did handball drills - except Jurrah - still with a protective cover on his wrist.

The main squad then split into 4 groups and did 3 consecutive runs of 2 1/4 laps (with a rest period in between each run).

The first group featured the elites in Jones, Bate, and Trengove, and was led by Nicholson and Tom Mac. Nicho pulled out 1/2 way thru the second run with a slight twinge on the left side above the hip and was treated at the scene by the club massuer.

The main squad then moved to some goal kicking drills at both ends, followed by 3 sets of competitive handball and kicking drills, where pressure is applied to the ball carrier. Some of the main squad such as Howe and Sylvia left before this final session, While Williams came out of the rehab group and took part in this final set of drills. Jurrah ran laps at a fair pace on his own. Training finished for most of this group at 11.30am.

Collingwood were training next door. Very different. The did match play - lots of it - and used the full length and width of their training oval. There was possibly less emphasis on tackling, and more about creating and finding a target. It was a lot more interesting to watch, and most of their top group was involved - Cloke, Swan, Pendlebery and even Jolly.

One quick observation from our training - I'm certain I heard one of the coaches yell out - 'Garland - get to the wing'.

Could this be a sign that Garland is going to make his long awaited move into the midfield?

Point of my post being that anybody bitter about not getting Darling should be more than content with Howe- a similar size with a far more impressive first year. Neither of which being the KPF we were so badly lacking.

Using pick 12 on the U18 All Australian CHF is more than suffice for a club that was sitting as far down on the ladder as we were. Yes it will take time but people need to realise just that and not continually doubt him. Patience is a virtue.

Best available at pick 12? That's rubbish. Darling went at pick 26 and I doubt he would have gone that early if West Coast hadn't have had their 2nd pick so soon. If Cook was off the table Billie Smedts, Ben Jacobs and Cameron Guthrie would have been far better options for pick 12 than Darling.

Darling played 23 of 25 games with a side that finished in the top 4 last year, and was a key in the final quarter against the Blues.

He runs hard, tackles like a madman, takes contested pack marks in finals, and kicks a mile. I'd take Darling at 12. West Coast got a bargain at 26.

BP's resignation may give us a hint of the club's intentions in this years draft.

We could have three first round draft picks, but if our regular pick is used for Viney, and the two compensation picks are used to catch an established star (Pendlebury?) then it's going to be a quiet year for the recruiters. Their first pick may not pop up till the 30's if other clubs get priority picks.

As for Darling - yes I would have grabbed him asap. I couldn't believe he slipped to 12 in the draft because of some off-field publicity and a failure to grow to > 192 cms. Howe is a similar height, but when we had pick 12, Darling was available, and there was no guarantee we would get Howe with our next pick at 33.

They should have used pick 12 to get Darling, the best available player.

It may be unfair to praise or criticise BP for all of our draft choices since he became Recruiting Manager in 2008.

For example at least one of the recruiting team was very keen on picking Zaharakis instead of Strauss in the 2008 draft, but Bailey wanted a guy who could hit targets out of the backline. In hindsight Zaharakis would have been a better choice.

I read somewhere that Collingwood had two prerequisites when choosing their recruits; they must be big bodied (not necessarily big - someone like Beams or Sidebottom) and be able to kick the ball. They would probably not have recruited the skinnies in Cook or Gysberts or Fitzpatrick.

So for 3.9 years we've been looking for a certain type of player. Then within weeks of the draft the new coach advises the recruiting team to radically change their focus, and look for ready-made players who could be more competitive. Not only that, the new coach takes a more hands-on approach in selections. BP decides after 4 years to have a career change. 10 of of 10 to the Master for predicting these issues in November.

Was PB successful? It would have been a very brave football club to pick Martin and Trengove over Scully in the 2009 draft.

It's possible that of all of our 9 top 20 picks since 2008, only one or two might become A grade, and 2 or 3 might not play more than 50 games. That would be a bit disappointing, but I'm willing to give BP a pass mark if one of his lower picks becomes a star. That could just happen with one Jeremy Howe.

What a comedy of errors from the Saints. 3 turnovers in the first quarter. The 49s are hitting them very hard.

No need for the panic to set in. Most clubs have players on limited programmes at this time of year and there are probably a number of reasons why not all players took part.

With seven weeks to go before the NAB Cup, it means there are 11-12 weeks to go before Round 1 - that's ample time.

In the world of cricket, 11 weeks ago,Pat Cummins and James Pattinson had yet to debut in test matches, Ben Hilfenhaus was in the wilderness and who would have thought that Dave Warner would have been doing anything other that hitting 6's in the BBL?

There's a lot of water to flow under the bridge yet and while the ideal would be to have everybody on the track throughout the preseason, that's an unrealistic expectation given that our game is a high pressure contact sport.

I'm rapt to see Nicholson and Tommy Mac do so well. It's a pity we can't also get Tapscott, Sylvia and McKenzie in the main group atm. WJ you've previously identified a possible weakness in our midfield, and they are all part of our midfield group.

Tommy Mac is an interesting case. I believe he did a lot of basketball as a kid, so he could have flown under the radar of the recruiters.