Akum

We're probably paying overs for 2018. For 2022, maybe not so much.

OK, sounds interesting. PA just seemed an unlikely suitor I guess.

I do need to respond to this. I'm not concerned about the past. My point is, in the post-Watts* Demons of 2018 and beyond, I would like to think that there's just as much discipline against those who don't improve their ball use from one season to the next and continue to turn the ball over, as there is against those who don't get to enough contests. Because both are important if we want to climb the ladder. That's all.

Why PA?

If anything it's Viney who's over-rated, not Jones. When we talk about there being a lack of leadership this season, Viney seems to avoid his share of the blame, and it's Jones who has to shoulder the responsibility for it. Though Viney gets the kudos when it goes well. Too many are too ready to turn a blind eye toward Viney's flaws as a player. And I'm just not yet convinced by him as captain, especially if he continues to get a free pass to avoid his share of responsibility for lack of leadership. And he rarely brings others into the game in the way that Jones does; at this stage in his career, he seems more concerned about his own game. Don't get me wrong, Viney's a very good player, and could yet be one of the greats of the club. But I don't think he's done enough yet to have earned the beatification that D'land seems so keen to bestow upon him.

Agree. In 3-4 years at current rates of growth, $900K will be ho-hum.

I suppose my point is that while Watts & Salem seemed to be punished for not smashing in, only the fringe players like Wagner & White ever seemed to be punished for not taking due care with their ball use. Yes, I think that for some of them (Viney & Tyson for a start) their execution was affected by injuries they carried. But that's also true of Watts & Salem, who were clearly hampered against GWS but took the rap for the debacle nevertheless.

Most of the list probably had 6 ordinary games in 2017. Many of our list haven't improved their ball use over a few seasons. But that doesn't seem to matter - ball use clearly isn't something that we consider important. Nor does running off the ball, nor making intelligent leads, nor stopping your opponent from being third man up in the marking contest. Nor shepherding, nor blocking for teammates. It's all about smashing in for contested ball, or bombing it into the f50.

Daisy's intelligence & poise really showed up Bruce's yappy little puppy thing. I wonder how long it took Dusty last night to stop Bruce from humping his leg?

Who will be our largest vote winner, Clarrie or Lever?

... you can almost touch it

Yeah it's so close ...

Now if the time machine could bring us the Ryan Griffen of 2013 ...

Jack Martinus??

Not to mention that Griffen (assuming it's Ryan) wouldn't want anything to do with the guy who coached the Dogs at the time he left them for GWS.

Agree, but if we want him, he'll stay, and if we don't want him, he'll go. If we only want him to stay if we can't get a certain price for him, that just leaves the situation unresolved. And if we don't want him, of course interested clubs will offer unders. They're aware of the situation.

Thanks mate, I feel like I understand you a whole lot better. Takes a lot of bottle to put stuff like this out, really admire you for it. For me, it's sounding much more to me as if it's heading for Watts leaving, though I'm 50/50 about whether it will be a good thing for us or not. I'm concerned that it may unbalance us too much toward contested ball winners with iffy disposal. For players whose strengths are in uncontested footy, which every side needs, I don't think we handle them well at all. And it's probably getting to the point where, with the way our game plan is developing, we need someone with a different set of skills to play his position. I'm not convinced of that myself, but it looks like it's the way things are heading. So I get the impression, including from that strange TV interview last night, that it's down to the coach's call, and that's probably the way it should be. But I do admire Watts's character - very few could have been through what he's been through and still be standing strong like he seems to be. I hope for Watts's sake that he really is dealing with this as well as he seems to be. And I believe that if someone that he respects (Goody, probably) came to him and told him sincerely that they think it would be better for the team if he goes, it wouldn't be what he'd want, but he'd cop it sweet & go.

Not sure why you're so upset about this. You've said yourself, he should go. For what it's worth, I'm coming around to agree with you on that. Still, if it makes you feel better, by all means continue to play the man and not the ball.

I guess some of today's posts show clearly that we've moved into the second act of the "established-player-who-might-leave" play. First act is speculation. Second act is character destruction. Third act is resolution, and fourth act depends on whether they stay or go. We've seen it recently with T Mac & Hogan, and before that with Howe & Frawley. I think that with Watts, the character destruction is going to be a lot harder, without saying things that to most people are clearly wrong. The attitude of supporters of other clubs is that, whatever you think of him as a footballer, he must have an amazingly strong character to have stood up to the amount of [censored] that's been flung at him over the years. Most of us can see that. Nevertheless, on the Monday before the Grand Final, let Act II begin.

Seemed to me to be a puff-piece full of throwaway lines. Weird that it's being dissected so avidly. I'd say it's far more likely from his resilience over the years that he's got such a strong & well-rounded character that he's been able to deal with the massive amount of garbage that's been flung his way over many years now, as much by supporters of his own club than from elsewhere. And that his self-esteem is robust enough that it doesn't stand or fall depending on his success or otherwise in sport, and he's mature enough to accept that sometimes life goes the way you want it and sometimes it doesn't. But your way is good too.

Didn't he get along very well with Malthouse at one stage, just after he'd left the Pies for Carlton? Surely that would be a black mark as far as Bucks & Eddie are concerned.

At this time of the year, it's all trying to stir the possum to get attention. It's like a ritual. And everybody remembers the one in ten they might fluke right, while nobody remembers the many stupid guesses they got wrong.

One thing that did seem clear - it's up to the coaches now whether he stays or goes. He said he'd prefer to stay but is aware that the club might want to move him on.

Said it before and I'll say it again - every club knows that if Dees want him, he'll always choose us and there's no point chasing him. They will also know that he would only be on the market if Dees don't want him. So they won't have to pay top dollar. So even if clubs would happily give up a late first rounder for him, they're fully aware that they won't have to.

Love it that Jack is now being blamed for his crap media appearances. He can't do any media that the club doesn't want him to. Are we that desperate for attention? I'd like the club to have the nads to say no to any more media appearances from Jack and put someone else out there.