montasaurus

Very good point, for some reason I thought that this rule was in for 04 but your right it was 05. I did not mean to turn this into a white vs jolley debate I was trying to highlight the lack of depth in our rucks right now and if we had have been able to keep jolley and show the benifit our list would currently have, must have touched a raw nerve with my point of view. Anyhow your right lets move on from this as we don't have either jolley or white moving forward. Who knows spencer could emerge this year as the next big thing. Also surely this years crop will not be in the 40's with their numbers? 9,13,17 are all available by this list so I would suggest atleast 2 of these will be taken. I don't think the #9 needs a year off (It's already had nearly a full season off!)

What I would like and what I think will happen are 2 different outcomes. Not sure if it was a team plan or his own but he bowled too short all test. I still rate him as a potential opener as he has an ability to move the ball both ways off the seam but as you have correctly pointed out you need to take 20 wickets to win a game and siddle too NIL. Therefore if the axe is coming his name would have to be ahead of any other bowler at this stage unless Krejza is to replaced but I doubt it. The only hope for siddle is that lee did nothing also and I don't think anyone else have put their hands up at domestic level enough. What ever happened to a med bowler to break a partnership on a dead track? is symonds arm not up to bowling after his last injury? The smartest thing Hayden to do is announce his retirement at the end of the series now! that would almost guarrantee him a ticket to melb and syd on a farwell tour. I think he is actually a little lucky to get out the way he did (he now has sympathy on the selection issue). Had have he been out to his own devices the next over or 2 it could have been the end for him, but then again it could have also been a ton!

I think co-captains of Jnr/Bruce will be the outcome with Green and McClean VC's

I do agree with you re the deals that have been made. I think that could well be why we are getting a hand out from the MCC this year. Is our deal with them any different from any other club re gate receipts? I would be supprised if it was.

Are we reading too much into this. Is it the bowlers who could not take wickets on a flat track the problem or the upper order who get starts and don't go on with it! That's been the issue for mine since the start of the indian tour. Clarke, Hayden, Ponting, Symonds all giving their wickets away so far this summer. Symonds especially, if he is not being used a bowler then should not be in the side. His batting is just not up to it, watson is just as good with the bat in this form of the game and can bowl! Clarke - Is by far the most frustrating batsman to watch the way he gives his wicket away when he is set. ARROGANCE is a word that comes to mind that explains the current side. No need to make big changes they just need to work a bit harder. This test should have been a draw and if johnson had not bowled that incredable spell probably would have ended up that way. I think it is likely Siddle out watson in. But I would love to see siddle be given a chance on his home track. Ideally hayden out. Maybe siddle out for Dirky! See if he can put a couple of the SA batsmen into the alfred!

Heres another idea, I'm not sure it is possible but.... Have a 1st year 3 game membership specifically designed to be sold as christmas/birthday presents. But theres a catch..... the 5 games are the games that we struggle for crowds. Don't just give them general admission but allocate a bay somewhere (left or right of the cheer squad would be a good start so there's a bit of atmospher. Then agressively market these members to see if they want to upgrade etc. I'd Spend $50 on a couple of these every year in an effort to get new members each year. Make sure that these games have a kick on the ground after the game as well!

I have also suspected this since late nov. But if this is the case and I were the major sponser I would not be happy about missing out on #1 ND Publicity etc so believe that we don't have anything in place.

This is my single biggest concern ATM. We must re-invent ourselves in the next 12 months. Casey has to be a big part of it.

A question I suppose needs to be asked. Do we devalue our brand and take what we can get for 1 yr? instead of say $1m for outright make it 600k or 2 x 350k like richmond? I'm sure even in this climate the contacts the MFC and MCC have surely this type of short term arrangement could be made.

All hail the Orical! Interesting to note though that the damage was done with the old ball, so for mine still may not be the best for us to be opening the bowling! (But then again I'm right handed and a victorian!) so might be a bit biased!

thats why the mfc should have drafted ............ (I'm not going to start that debate again!) No sponsor, issues with AFL and MCC handouts = Trouble for 09. A major sponsor is needed by the end of Jan from where i sit or we are in trouble

A perfect exception to this is hawthorn with spida. He was their #1 by a mile yet they made the hard decision to develop young. Where did they finish this year again? Youth should always be given opportunity over those past their best and but ignore the suggested jeff white trade for a moment......... we would be better now have had jolly stayed regarless what your personal beliefs are with his attitude. If his attitude was so bad no way would have a club given a rd 1 pick for him! Therefore once again rather then in your words we don't even have a decent ruck, had have we kept jolly we would have at least 1 serviceable ruckman. For whats its worth I think PJ falls into this as well. So that would have given us 2.

I can see where your coming from and I agree personally that we need the $$ and they do owe us. However from a MCC point of view.... Do they believe they owe us something - Playing with fire here, I think it is more likely seen as good will rather then a debt owed and I would hate to see the MCC pushed too hard, but this could well be a case of dammed if you do, even worse if you don't Will they support us with/without public pressure. Make no mistake this is a professional business therefore I think public pressure is very unlikely. What I would like to see is what can the MFC do for the MCC in return of the good will similar to a sponser/business partner type arrangement rather then a charity type arrangement. Ideas could be for players after some games to be available in the MCC area rather then post match club functions etc.

Any news/ideas out of mansfield last night? I thought there might have been a leak in a paper today!

I think we are missing the point a little. This is a discussion about our current list. I started by saying we stuffed up letting jolly go. the jeff white trade was a side note to this. My logic (Maybe a little out of the square) was that right now... Today.... Our list would be in a better position had have jolly stayed. Every ND and PSD and Rookie forum have had people calling for an extra ruck. My point is we had a very good one and let him go. My wife is a old sth girl and I have seen many games watching jolly develop and hurts to watch! Not often we see an ex mfc player do this (ignore that little turd at the crows), let alone a ruckman. I don't see this happening at say the filth, essendon, carlton. Good ruckman is the hardest thing to find due to the time it generally takes to mature. At the end of 04 was I the only one that was seeing the beginning of the end for jeff white? Must have been. The rule changes effectively made him redundant. I agree that the supporter back lash over trading white would have probably been too great but none the less I will stand by saying jolly should still be in the red and blue and we would be in a stronger position. I don't want to start looking at our #15 pick for him yet but in my eyes has a long way to go yet. in 2 yrs we should know weather Dunn was the right choice. Who knows had have jolly been given another year the issues may have been resolved and we would have one of the strongest ruck stocks in the comp! Granted we did do very well drafting PJ!

I totally disagree. Whilst I have been very vocal in MCC members who free load off our club, I see the MCC as an organisation as a critical part of our club now and in the future. Any media pressure, suporter backlash etc can only damage us for the future. We should be embrasing the MCC in every way that we can. The way things are shaping up, they are likely to be our major sponsor for a while! Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I agree totally, were just the small kid inbetween the two big roosters in the play ground. I'm sure an arrangement will be made, if it is the 2m we are chaising who knows. Really a major sponsor is what we need, and I suspect this payment is an admission by the club that they are unable to attain one. Do any other clubs recieve payments from the MCC?

Syd, Ess, Coll and geelong? I think all of these were looking for rucks around this time. My point is that we would have been better to trade off and still have a good player to show for it rather then next to nothing in 08, 07 was nothing special and 06 not fantastic. How many B+F did he win? A player of his caibre should have done more. He was never the same player after his shin issues, sad but true. Looks like I touch a raw nerve with this one but the fact is I don't believe white was a great team player, maybe a great player in a team..........(Be Gentle!)

Regular crowds I agree but were only talking a couple of games a year. Being that these games would be unlikely to be free to air I'm not so sure a simple were not going out there will happen. Its easy saying it now but when the weekend comes I think a lot would be likely to go. The club could potentially even have a two game membership for just casey with the intent to convert these people to full memberships. 10-15k at casey would have to be a better financil result then 15-20k at the g like we have had a few times.

In a perfect world I would pick jolly before dunn at this stage.

Hopefully not, I would never wish that bad luck with injuries on him (I agree though!)

Thats 4 heartland donatations Good Call - Rhino, what are you like at poker??? Back on topic I really don't remember jeff white being the player that led us to the top of the ladder. It was a hard running midfield under ratten from the side of the ground I was on. I'll stand by my statement that at the end of 04 we would have maximised a return for white. Like I said earlier I might be biased a little but for me a good ruckman needs to be doing the hard things, filling holes and doing 1%'ers just like PJ made a name for himself last year. Re Jolly's 04 again his 1st half was good by my memmory and thought at the time that Jamar was tested in the second half to see if he was up to it, which I still don't think he was but was lucky jolly went. From my memory there were at least 6 clubs that were chaising a good #1 ruck and melbourne was seen to have 1xAA, 1xA and 1xB. This is hind site but surly a good midfield trade for white and keeping jolly would have us in a better position now? Does anyone have who we picked up for jolly in the draft, this has got me interested! If they have turned out to be a real good player great

I think garland will make a career fighting out of his weight division just like fletcher did. I see the same similarities such as ability to read play, beat bigger apponents etc. So I don't think that type of comparison is that far off.

Hughes at 21 would have been given his baggy green before the "valued NSW" cap for sure! I think this is on the cards being that katich is batting very well ATM. None the less as a victorian bring on ROGERS/Klinger or even promote M.Hussey to open and bat D.Hussey in the middle - Now I like that!

I couldn't agree with you more. Am I right in saying that the AFL has indicated that it is highly likely another stadium will be required in the future? If this is the case what an opportunity we have with casey!