timD

I'd have Oliver ahead of Parish on my limited video footage. Physicality will translate better, agility is better, likes beating opponents and hitting bodies and has the frame to do it.

But I wouldn't pick him at 3. 7 yes.

ok ok, i know I will cop flak from the PCers, but omg, he is the epitome of how we have been viewed by the rest of the teams in the comp for 50 years.

I hope the kid can seriously play, or fight like a thrashing machine, because he is going to be targeted every game he plays, just for the way he looks.

Looks like a character straight out of a 70's Medieval movie. Can someone photoshop a shield and sword on him?

Cop flak from the PCer's? Mate who cares what they say...and frankly you have bigger problems. You don't want to draft someone because you are afraid of being teased.

Really.

He is NOW the second best attacking halfback at the club. IF Salem moves into the midfield, Melksham is the best halfback we have. We've just markedly improved out backline for only pick 25, and he is better than Mitchie, Newton, Lamumba, Grimes, JKH, Riley, McKensie, Bail, Matt Jones, Harmes, White etc. For just pick 25.

Nah, I think I'll write an angry righteous email to Josh and [censored] about my pain.

Where is my waaaahmbulance?

Sorry gazman i know you mean well but i fell asleep reading that.

Really?

And you felt the need to highlight your lack of grace with a lack of wit?

What's the third act?

I take it that you are not a motivational speaker. Not sure that I would like to have you next to me in the trenches.

Yes, because talking about football is indicative of performance during war.

Do you mean - do they know its terrible?

We have had this discussion before about how much weight is given to emotional and personality traits when recruiting teenagers. I think it leads to clubs letting a Darling go until Pick 26.

But away from that argument - I just feel as though the U/18 competition is further and further away from the rigours of AFL footy that Oliver Wines is the exception that proves the rule. He is a big boy with supreme confidence in his talent and his body.

I feel for Toumpas as he is asked to perform in an environment different to a Mayes or a Macrae. We don't have the talented bodies in the midfield that allow a young player to play their role and not much more. There is less easy footy for Toumpas, there is more responsibility.

I am not ready to judge his ceiling. Frankly, I gave Nathan Jones a ceiling and he smashed right through it and I am punch-drunk from the plumage and the experience.

Toumpas might or might not - but that question won't be answered for some time yet.

rpfc, I think we've had the conversation about coaches rather than kids, but I might well have forgotten.

Either way, I think that the data needs to be used for what it says reliably and validly. I have no idea what it said about darling and neither do you. To suggest that we used data to stay away from darling when neither of us know what it says, who at melbourne looked at it if anyone at all, what they know about psych testing etc is far fetched.

I'll say it again: the best single predictor for performance in a job - any job - is IQ. IQ + relevant personality predicts more about job performance than other measure - including interviews, bio-data, job trials, assessment centres etc. This is settled. No-one is arguing.

I have faith in Jimmy T. More than i do in Trengove.

Doesnt the mfc evaluate the mental side of a player when making a selection at the draft?

It seems to me to be a continuing problem at the club and amongst our playersor is the the club enviorement that effects players mentally

The simple answer is that I don't know. I know that certain tests are used and made available AFL-wide after draft camp. I have no idea what the MFC makes of the data, whether they mine it for more info etc. The other important point is that I have no evidence as to whether the data is a useful predictor of long-term performance - it might well be but that is a bit harder to find. Certainly there is nothing published.

The better question from my point of view if whether the MFC know what their environment is like and what types generally flourish under it?

I saw enough of Toumpas last year to know he can seriously play. My concern is his mental fragility. If he currently does't get a touch in the first 10 minutes he seems to mount pressure on himself and then just run around without purpose. Even his interview post Geelong game showed he was greatful to be out there rather than knowing he belongs like Viney, Wines interviews I have seen. He stated he was overawed by some of the Swans players whereas Viney just tries to kill whoever is in front of him. For this reason I see benefit to playing him through Casey until he believes his form deserves to see him on this stage. Once he gets his confidence right and a full preseason I have no doubt he will be a very good player.

THIS+++

The change = maturity. It will take time. He's got the physical/footy skill set. Needs the mental side. I'm very confident he'll get it.

Toumpas will become a decent AFL player, but already there are signs he's not going to become a gun AFL mid, which is what you want from a top 5 draft pick. Rarely have I seen a young top-performed junior seem so uncertain of himself and out of his depth. He's admitted that he's struggled to adjust to AFL footy. He's neat and will be far better as he matures and plays in a decent team, but I struggle to see any "star factor" with Toumpas. He's the type of player that will do well as a linkman in a chain of disposals, but I've seen nothing to suggest he can initiate play. The best AFL mids are the architects, they're the drivers that set up play and initiate proceedings, but Jimmy seems an over the top hand ball receive kind of guy, who then delivers it nicely.

Supporters will say, but he's only 19 and hasn't played much footy, etc. Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious. Jimmy may become what we all hope, but the best young mids usually show what they'll become even when they starting out on their fledgling careers. I've seen enough star mids start out in my lifetime to at least have some early concerns regarding Toumpas and what he brings to the table.

I've seen him present well in defense and try to start or engineer play.

HOWEVER it is clear that he is a pretty emotional guy. It will take him time to stop feeling pressure and relax into the roll. I'd guess that we'll see a steady improvement for 1-3 years and then a marked improvement 4-6 years from now. Like Garland. The problem with emotional types is that they make decisions when 'emotional'. Too much emotion = not great decisions. Not necessarily evident as a junior because the environment = less demanding.

And yes, all of this is evident on testing and tests are made available to afl clubs post draft camp.

Brent Grgic was a better footballer than Cale.

That says everything about your footy brain and nothing about Cale. Not bad for a one liner. Who knows what you could do if you REALLY thought about it?

Terribly sad news. The OP is such a raw, gutsy effort - no b/s, no pretense - just honest and far too real. It's just not right. Cancer is such a bastard of an illness.

I'd like to echo jaded and extend my sympathy to his friends and family.

Redleg, I was wondering about meat and maybe some midfield potatoes...

Open to suggestions.

Agree our defence is our bright spot. As you say we need a hard bodied mid or two to turn things around. Oh how I wish we had been harder on Ferguson and virtually forced his move to the Hawks. Then we would be far better off with Sewell in our mid field instead of the 1 extra nothing year we got from Ryan.

On another note and this will bring howls I am sure. I would consider trading Jamar home to Port for Butcher and even another lesser player like Maric, Bate to get the deal done. That would give us the big players we need up forward with Cook, McDonald and Fitzy to come. Rationale is Jamar is getting towards 30 and we have Martin, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzpatrick, the shorter McDonald who has rucked and Campbell rookied. The younger ones need developing and we are not a flag contender for at least a couple of years. The first 4 are genuine rucks and not all can play there or in the same team. It is an area that hopefully we will be ok in. Also Jamar often seems to be injured and has a foot problem, that won't go away. A forward line of Watts and maybe no one else as a tall forward is not a winning combination. Butcher, Watts, Jurrah and one of the rucks resting forward with Howe, Petterd, Sylvia etc is a good forward line. That would leave only the mid field for improvement. OK everyone start screaming.

I'd be trading any and all of Jamar, Sylvia and Petterd. Perhaps not all in one compromised draft year, but I would look to move them all. Thry'd get us something worthwhile. Anyone from port worth stealing?

First the diet. No good, I have as much application as our forwards do with the forward press. Doesn't help that WJ and Mrs. WJ keep asking Mrs. Redleg out for dinner which means I get dragged along kicking and screaming. I am going to have to apply myself and show some guts and determination. By the way WJ has become a grandfather again with his 5th, Alexis Poppy . Mother and father ( Demonland Andy ) all thrilled with new Demon.

Interesting you pin hope on Grimes and some poster on Demonology suggests trading him. Can't believe it. Would have thought he is one of our brightest hopes.

As for the midfield I would have thought we have a couple of big bodied boys in Beamer and Jones and that a few others could put on some more muscle. Not sure JT is a midfielder but he is not small. Wonder if Tapscott could play some mid field.

Yes it may be another hard year but we seemed to be improving last year and then slipped back this year. Maybe next year can see some dramatic improvement.

We will also find out the answer to "is he going or staying" soon.

What has led to you thinking that JT is not a midfielder? Not criticising, just interested.

Good for you, twosheds. I've kept my eye on this thread every now and then. I hope the luck stays with you.

H, he's got those attributes you highlight in spade. I watched a littel bit of the coverage yesterday and Phil cleary (SHUTUP) reported a conversation he had with CC. Phil reported that CC reported taht Jack has grown about 3 cms since drafting and put on 7-8kg and that the club could not be happier.