JTR

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's not one game though, it's consistently poor performances and a downward trend. 5 losses to start the season isn't one game, the way we finished the 2nd half of last year isn't one game. Losing to Saints, Port and Suns in the fashion we did in the last month isn't one game.

In my view there are plenty of valid mitigating circumstances that have have lead us from the first half of last season to where we are now.

If seeing it that way, rather than buying into the constant hand wringing sessions that dominates most discussion makes me a "happy clapper" (I assume that quip is just around the corner? Or maybe the old "supporters like me are what is wrong with this club"? ), then so be it.

Lets just leave it at that.

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We are 5-17 from our last 22 games (9-22 from our last 31).

This isn't reactionary, this is a clear trend.

The win-loss record is undeniable, but if you're telling me this place is not hyper-reactive, particularly when things aren't going our way, then nah, don't agree at all.

Do you think this thread even exists if we'd won the two finals in 2023, games which we lost by a combined total of a kick and a half?

What about the recent 1 point loss to the Filth or any other close loss and how all those post game and subsequent spin off threads read?

The entire mood towards the club, coaches and players would be completely different.

If the narrative and general sentiment around here can swing so drastically based on what is sometimes a single moment in a game—which is what a loss by under a kick is—then yeah, that's reactionary.

12 minutes ago, SFebes said:

We have been screaming for KPF's for years, yet struggled to lure any, it's not like we haven't got the cash (or had). There have been options (before anyone mentions there isn't) There is nothing to kick to.

Cartlon have Curnow and McKay to kick to.
How have they been going lately?

A new shiny KPF is not the golden ticket.
We need to fix the way it's getting to them

The fickle nature of opinions after a loss (or a win, to be fair) is why I don't buy into these "sack everyone" hang wringing sessions.

We lost our best shot at a flag since 2021 in 2023 after being cruelled by terribly timed injuries on the eve of finals, and Maynard.
It was ours for the taking.

Win that and this thread probably doesn't even exist and opinions/views on various players, tactics and so forth would be completely different, even though the various players, tactics and so forth are exactly the same.

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I have said this many times and its still true.

Their players understand exactly what to do when they get the ball. they run to space. We simply dont do that. Pie players knw exactly where to kick or HB it and presto a pie player is there. They don't have to be accurate with their kicking (tho they do have some v good kicks). they kick to ADVANTAGE of their player running into space.

Our players appear to be braindead with ball in hand because their team mates don't run to space and the ball is kicked to a pressure situation more often than not.

Coaching 101.

As for our fwd line, everyone here has lamented for years our inability to run at the ball carrier. It can be nothing else but to instructions. We have talked about connection for 5 years FFS. When Viney Trac and oliver stream out of the middle they rarely chip a kick in front of a leading fwd.

Coaching 101.

Poor JvR is being roo-ined before our eyes. But he NEVER runs at the ball carrier. He stands at the back and tries to body the backmen. Fritsch rarely runs at the ball carrier.

Thats why Collingwood look good. And its why we are [censored].

Not against us they didn't. We made them look ordinary for most of the game.
Our defensive work would have been lauded if we kicked straight and got the result.

If #32 didn't have such hilarious pigeon toed flipper feet, maybe he wouldn't be getting in everyones road so often when penguin-ing his way out of a centre bounce?

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

I'm a firm believer that Goodwin is advocating change and is trying to implement change

But it's fairly obvious (to me, at least) that the players are just not adhering to change

The old habits becomes the default mode under pressure

I reckon most of the other teams have realised that if they pressure our mids then the ball will be rushed forward to a forward line bereft of talent

And just to make sure of it, the opposition teams flood our forward line to make it doubly hard to score (from the inside 50 entries)

Not exactly news either ... it was evident in early 2022 that was the M.O. of the opposition teams

We rarely see Oliver, Petracca or Viney in free space delivering the ball forward

This probably ties back to what was said earlier about trusting the same group of core players with the new methods, when they themselves might be incapable of doing it.
We can only work with what we have.

As for our forward line talent, I've mentioned elsewhere that if we plonked JVR, Petty, Turner, Fritsch, Kossie and co infront of a different midfield who get it in fast an to their advantage (rather than Oliver/Viney/Petracca method), they'd be completely different players and significantly more effective.

No key forward in the game would make a difference in our forward line, given the way it goes in.
Except maybe Darcy who can mark anything anywhere, whether its to his advantage or not.

5 minutes ago, Macca said:

Moving the ball quickly is pointless unless we can then convert that movement into efficient forward 50 entries

We'd probably be high up for inside 50 entries but that's another useless stat as we are terrible at converting those entries

Let's face it, we are now a bottom 6 team and it's a long road back. Definitely need change but change isn't easy when the contracts are rock solid

Didn't we have a full scale review in the off-season? Need another one

While I agree that our connection inside 50 has been a persistent issue, I would still argue that being a leader in this new metric - during an era that favours fast ball movement - has us much better positioned than people think, or at least want to acknowledge whilst we are in the depths of another hand wringing phase.

We're excelling in many other areas across the ground, yet struggle with that final phase and putting points on the board.

I'd much rather that than getting smashed in all facets of the game, or persisting with an old game style like Carlton.

It's clear we're on a challenging path, but there's definitely merit in what we are trying to do.

32 minutes ago, Macca said:

Well if they aren't counting the long bombs into the forward line then they should be

Just another useless stat if all the variables aren't included

The eye test tells us we waste the ball heading into the forward line so our offense stinks to high hell

Where was that said anywhere?

Have a read here if you are interested.
It explains the various metrics, what they mean and how all teams stack up in each of the criteria.

Your "eye test" is irrelevant to the "Speed of Ball" conversation.
That what stats like disposal efficiency, or marks inside 50 are for.

1 hour ago, Macca said:

It's more about more of the same

All those hundreds of long bombs forward effectively speeds up our ball movement (e.g. A 50 metre kick takes about 5 seconds where as a string of handpasses or short kicks can take 15 seconds plus)

So that stat is not about a change in the way that we play

For instance, I'd say our speed of ball movement in 2021 would have been right up there as well

In the games this season where we have had less long bombs and more short kicks & handpasses, our ball movement has been effectively slowed down (principally the games against Freo, Lions & Swans)

I'm surprised that more people here haven't picked up on the above. It was the first thing I thought of when hearing that we lead the comp in ball movement

In other words, nothing to hang our hats on

So the issue is what it was at the start of the season ... our experienced players are letting us down with their poor disposal forward

As well as that, in a general sense, our forwards are incapable of winning their own ball

Sorry, but no it's not. There has been a demonstrable change.

There was a guy from Champion Data on one of the radio shows a few weeks back explaining the new stat.

It's not all about how fast it gets into the 50, it's how fast ball movement is all over the ground.

Get the ball, make a decision, dispose of the ball. They literally have a person/people timing everything during and post game (imagine that job! 🤮)

Anyway, they also did a comparison to successful sides from previous seasons, including us in 2021, and we were much slower then and in seasons since than we are now.

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes. I think Goodwin should have been terminated after losing 4 Finals on the MCG.

Once again, there are plenty of valid reasons (besides ordinary goal kicking) for why the 2022 and 2023 finals series ended up the way the did, the most crucial of which had absolutely zero to do with coaching.

And if you want to extend it further, in 2024 we had no Brayshaw, lost Petracca half way through the year, never had a 100% Oliver, no longer had Jordan or Harmes and were having to cover all these gaps with inexperienced 1st and 2nd year players.

Again, nothing to do with coaching.

Well, there goes my "there's no way he'd be that reckless at training with his team mates" argument... 🙄

9 minutes ago, picket fence said:

We havent made the finals for two years and were inglorious in 22 and 23. On what basis (other than contract) should he be kept in 26??

Whilst the exit in '22 and '23 was inglorious, but the seasons themselves were very good.
Two top 4 finishes and we were the only team that wasn't outside the 8 for the entire period.
That's no mean feat and I don't understand why people continually ignore that.

2022 we had players limping into finals (quite literally with Petracca who was basically on one leg), but 2023 was the year that got away.
What ultimately ended the season (poor kicking aside) was losing our forward line on the eye of finals, then losing Brayshaw in the opening minutes vs the Filth.

Coaching cannot help key injuries or stop thugs from "making a footy act"

11 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Again the Footy Classifieds hyena pack are calling out that Trac could be traded and has fallen to outside the best 25 midfielders in the league , based on the AFL coaches votes.

Slow news week ? What a pack of clowns searching for relevance !!! Cal the gettable vulture Twomey trying to fill more junk airtime and pushing up trade innuendo with half the season still to play.

11 hours ago, picket fence said:

Um.. sadly they have every reason to speculate!

The entire basis for the renewed Petracca speculation on Footy Classified was a lazy glance at the coaches' votes and someone saying, "it was about this time last year that the Petracca rumours started" — and from that, they spun an entire non-story.

Complete garbage, manufactured out of thin air.

But as is tradition with these [censored], other outlets will now pick it up and run their own hot takes, quoting Footy Classified like it's gospel.

Then Tom Morris will start ringing around clubs asking if they'd have any interest in Petracca if he were available.
He’ll follow that up with a call to Melbourne, who’ll politely (or not so politely) tell him to [censored] off.

Then he’ll publish a piece breathlessly reporting that "multiple clubs have expressed interest in Petracca, and Melbourne declined to comment on a potential trade."

Cue a Sam McClure exclusive a few days later, linking back to all this circular nonsense and dropping buzzwords like “where there’s smoke” — while completely ignoring the fact that they lit the [censored] fire in the first place.

Then we'll have people here melting because there has been no comment from the club.

etc etc etc

Well this is good news

WhistleOut

What about Vineys sling tackle on whoever it was? Rowell?

I know it didnt even draw a free kick at the time but the TV commentary review panel were already giving him weeks.

19 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

peptides wanted to secure someone after missing out on multiple free agents - they frontloaded his contract enormously for the first 2 years of his 5 year deal

That too, but I thought I read somewhere that Norf had a hand in the degree and amount of the front ending, cause they wanted picks 2 & 3 in the Harley Reid draft?

Could be wrong.

1 hour ago, Doug Reemer said:

Ben is without a doubt the worst player in the AFL. It’s dumbfounding how much money he is on!

Wasn't that because Norf refuse to release him unless the Bombers paid a certain amount, thus ensuring they got band 1 compensation?

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Yep too many negative Nellies on this site!

1 hour ago, BDA said:

Carlton have curnow and mckay yet still struggle because their mids delivery is as bad as ours

deliver the ball property and coach our forwards some method and we might have a chance.

This.

Curnow was hopeless today and that was nothing to do with Curnow.

I'm sure it's an unpopular opinion who those who think a key forward will solve all our problems, but I am firmly in the "our forwards aren't actually that bad" camp.

If you put JVR, Turner, Petty, Fritsch, Kossie, Melksham and co infront of a competent midfield who get it in fast and to their advantage they'd all be completely different players.

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Maybe he doesn't want the #34.

Probably someone who wants to create his own pathway and journey without the added pressure and expectations. Not every player wants to live in their father's shadow.

Didn't I read somewhere that when he was at one of our pre-season training sessions he was doing autographs with #34 ?

17 hours ago, Harvey Wallbanger said:

I was there Ghosty - we thought you were just blanking us because you were all over the coverage on Monday - maybe Kosi not the only one considering a significant contract?

My report just filed elsewhere - I am sure the administrators can merge them....

Time stamp please 😁

I'm 0-2 in my "this might be a weird question but are you known elsewhere as Ghosty or WCW?"

According the the vermin I had the displeasure of being surrounded by all night, everyone here is incorrect

THEY were the ones that hard done by, not us. All of frees paid against us were valid and there should have been a lot more, but the incompetent umpires wanted Melbourne to win.

Sorry if already mentioned, but did anyone see McVee chucking up several times out on the ground, immediately after they came out for the 3rd quarter?

What were they doing down in the rooms?!

Poor fella was down on his haunches looking very unwell, but then just casually rejoined the huddle and got on with it

1 minute ago, Jaded No More said:

Please tell me they aren't selling general public tickets on level 1 of the reserved seating area (M50-M53)?

I refuse to sit with Collingwood supporters, which is why I only go to home games against the Pies (finals not included).

Collingwood supporters are like vermin and are everywhere. How do you manage with other non-football game activities where they would also be present?