DemonJack 14

Thanks guys for fronting up to do the pod after an almost decade worst performance.

I would like to get the panel’s take on where they think our list is at and if a mini rebuild is necessary ? 

I know Binman says we have almost the best list in the competition. 3 years ago I would agree with him. Like many others I think our recruiting and list management decisions have been poor since our premiership win. 

I see holes everywhere in our list at the moment. Most concerning is no reliable key forwards apart from JVR. No adequate back up for Max. Our midfield is lacking speed , skill and depth.

I think there are obvious issues with the game plan as well, but I am very concerned  our list going forward and feel we need to make some smart decisions for the future before Tassie come into the comp and get given  a lot of first round draft picks like GC and GWS. 

8 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

We are no longer in the conversation for this years flag.

We’ve wasted our chances at winning a second premiership. Time to go down a mini/decent rebuild and get some list turnover.

Our list depth is either too old or not good enough. Unfortunately some of our trade decisions have come back and bitten us on the [censored].

New leadership is needed, on-field and off it. Max, god love him, is no longer able to put in his Herculean efforts like he used to. Too much is being needed to be done by our best players’, and when they have down games due to always being looked upon to lead, no one else is stepping up.

This has been coming for a couple of years, and despite our coach, pres & CEO continually saying they won’t be complacent, they have been left found wanting.

We desperately need fresh voices, and those that have been in charge have refused to acknowledge or even allow this with their iron fists.

Change is needed.

Absolutely spot on ! We need to really start turning over the list even if it means going backwards for a season or two. Especially with Tassie coming into the comp shortly , when the draft will be really compromised.

Are we concerned about Tholstrup’s low possession count for the last few VFL games ? I know he is young and seems to be made of the right stuff. I thought we might be seeing a bit more from a high draft pick who played against men in the WAFL last year ? 
 

Casey this year with lack of experienced midfielders is probably no the easiest situation for him at the moment. 

Jason Taylor doesn’t miss that much, but Darcy Wilson for the saints who went a few picks later than Kolt looks a special player. 

Hopefully we start to see him have a bit more impact and can push again for selection soon 

Sorry if this has already been asked. 
 

Pregame there was an interview on SEN with Troy Chaplin and he talked about us wanting to get back to our brand and play more forward half footy , which we did for patches I thought.

It’s sounds like from his interview we overcorrected at the start of the season with trying to play back half footy.

But where is the balance we are wanting to achieve ? is it to break even in inside 50’s and still look to punish on turnovers and intercepts or are we still wanting to convincingly win inside 50 and time in forward half ? 
 

I’m keen to hear the panel’s thoughts on our  tackles inside 50 numbers this year. They are way down compared to last year. 20 to Port Adelaide to our 9 last round. 

Is it because we are trying to play different this year by placing less emphasis on front half football and score more from defensive  half chain ? Or is it that we are not putting enough pressure on in our forward line to lock the ball in and need to improve this stat ? 

If Petty goes we absolutely have to recruit a decent key forward. Most likely Brown and T. Mac retire, Schache not reliable unfortunately, Jefferson young but question marks on his physicality. 

our Key position forward talent is wafer thin already let alone with Petty leaving. 

Not sure who we can poach, but if we only seek draft picks as compensation for Petty we must thinking rebuild.
 

Agree PF! Our midfield gets really shallow of elite talent if we let Clarry go in addition to the retirement of Brayshaw 

Geelong will argue he is only worth a second round pick to due to the off field issues. 

Would be staring at a full scale rebuild if we lost Petty and Oliver at the end of this year. We need to get aggressive at the trade table ourselves I feel. 

Hey guys,

Love the podcast, the analysis and discussion is fantastic.

Others teams are physically targeting Max in and off the contest more and more. Teams are seeing it as a legitimate tactic to  nullify Max and therefore the team. We are particular vulnerable with out a consistent mature back up ruck 

How do we combat this ? Is it up to the coaching staff, the players , or is it up to Max him self to come up with some new tactics or attitude ? 
 

With Fullerton possibly out for sometime surely the club has to look at a pre-season or selection ( if we can put someone on the inactive /long term injury list ) on a back up mature aged ruck from a state league ?

if Max went down now we would be stuffed in the ruck 

Hi Guys 

Thank for your all your tireless efforts with the podcast again this year ! 
 

Do you think that we have enough marking power up forward and around the ground , this a concern for me in relation to our premiership credentials 

Petty going down will really impact us even potentially next season unless we recruit to address this

Kenn to hear your thoughts ? 

Great get with getting Troy on the podcast Andy ! Well done 

How are they seeing young defender Jed Adams' development in the VFL is he somewhere who they see taking over Steven May's role in time ?

Where is our list really at ? 

Maybe it's not the entire problem. Obviously other factors such game plan, structures, fitness and work rate/effort I think are contributing to where we are at the moment. 

But I think our list really does need some reworking. I know it's a highly rated list on paper, but a lot of players I think have reached their peak and are regressing or have stagnated. Only a handful of players have progressed from last year. 

Key Forwards 

Huge issue for me. Almost every other club has better quality and depth of key forwards than us. Tmac and Brown are almost finished and lack speed ,mobility and presence at ground level. I Can see why Goodwin wants Petty up forward to give us some marking power. JVR looks promising and competes hard. He still needs to keep improving and we can't expect him to kick bags of goals every week. Jefferson needs more time in the gym and a few more pre-seasons. Early in the season he looked promising in the VFL but has dropped off significantly lately. Schache should be given a bit more time to see what he has got at senior level I think but hasn't been smashing the door down at Casey. I would like to see Joel Smith given a go considering his recent VFL form and before he inevitably gets injured again. 

I think it's likely one or both of Tmac or Brown retires at the end of the year. I think we need to target another established  key forward from another club.  ( Riccardi - GWS, Georgiades - Port , Mitch Lewis - Haw ) 

Or we draft another with a first round pick (Archer Reid, Daniel Curtin or Nate Caddy) 

Small/General Forwards 

Fritsch, Chandler, Spargo, Pickett. ANB  is a good group of small to medium forwards. The pressure they apply is usually good. 2nd in the league for tackles inside 50 testament to that. Chandler has really come on this year. I think we could do with some more speed and more skill in this area however. some attacking flair ( Liam Henry - Frem, Kai Lohman -Bris , Jade Gresham - Stk) 

Maybe draft Nick Watson if he is available 

Mids  

I think our midfield really lacks some pace and skill. We have some elite ball winners but we still drop off in quality quickly when one of the big 3 aren't there compared to other sides. Really need Sparrow and Jordan to take the next step. perhaps Rivers becomes that outside/inside midfielder we lack. Our connection with our rucks seem off more often than not and even though clearances aren't every thing we need to still break even if we want to play forward half game. We need to develop some young elite mids in the next few years likely from high draft picks. Our wings look on paper close to the best in the league but Hunter lacks pace and  Langdon isn't having the same impact. I think we need some more height and marking power from our wings. Hopefully Howes and Woewodin can be this type. 

Players to possibly improve our midfield that could be gettable ( Flanders - GC,  Ash - GWS , Duursma - Port , Robertson - Bris , Macrae - Coll )

Small/ General Defenders 

We need to find a Hibberd replacement soon and we could do with some more run out of the backline. McVee has looked good early in the season and Rivers has been good at times. I think we need another medium Intercepting type that can provide some run. As people have mentioned our ground level defending has often looked shaky, which is not great considering we often play a spare defender. Not sure who we could look at to improve this area. 

Key Defenders 

Ok at the moment here. I think Lever would be more effective as the 3rd tall. Turner looks good in the VFL. May isn't getting any younger. Adams is showing some signs in the VFL. Tomlinson looks past it at AFL level. may need to draft another young key defender. Be nice if we didn't need Petty up forward, perhaps Himmelberg - GWS as a FA could be an option 

Rucks 

Obviously strong at the moment, however Gawn is not the player he was two years ago. We definitely need another young up and coming ruck soonish. Maybe Verrall can be that player, but another area that needs addressing I feel. 

Very keen on here others thoughts on where the list is at and what/who we need to get better ? 

I will join too if there are any spots left ? 

15 minutes ago, old55 said:

We've got 8 players that didn't play in our finals' teams that should be ready to go next year - Laurie, Bowey, JVR, Howes, JJ, Chandler, Woewodin and Turner.  That's not counting D.Smith, McVee and AMW who can all improve with another year in the system.  They'll either get opportunities or leave like Bedford.

We also had Tomlinson, TMac, Dunstan and J.Smith not in the 22.

Our depth is not as dire as you make out.

That’s true, but in those players you have listed there is not much ruck / key fwd depth there anymore  

24 minutes ago, layzie said:

Losing some pace and losing some height. Hope we have a big draft in store. 

Yeah I agree 

 Daw , Mitch Brown, Weideman , Rosman and LJ all gone only Grundy coming in. 
 

We need some more Rucks and Key Forwards , but only have pick 13 as a significant draft pick this year ? 
 

We really do need a Schache type player/s or another tall with some experience that can play a role if injuries occur ! We surely have a plan not just to rely on young draftees to fill the list spots 

Great Podcast guys 

Do you think we need more experienced depth. Obviously we don’t want list cloggers and need to turn over the list.

But we have lost Jackson, Hunt , Bedford and Weideman and delisted Rosman, Mitch Brown and Daw with only Grundy coming back as an established player 

Surely the rest of the list spots can’t be filled by young draftees and rookies ? Your thoughts ? 

Thanks, 

Jack

3 hours ago, layzie said:

I see what you're saying as we do need mature age depth but we just need to be careful that any recycled guys we get don't become list cloggers. 

I trust that we'll be looking at all available and if the right player comes along we'll do what we can to get them. Just comes down to how many of those do leave. 

Yeah I agree with you there, but if we are losing some solid role players. We can't just rely on draft picks to fill these positions. But yes have to be selective not to just end up with list cloggers 

With the game becoming more attacking and if we lose Bedford and Hunt, which is looking likely. We definitely need more players with some pace. Not sure  who we can recruit but this has to be a priority if we lose both Bedford and Hunt

I am bit concerned that if we lose fingers best 22 players  like Hunt, Bedford, Weideman and Tomlinson. We lose a lot of our mature depth. I wouldn't want to replace them with just draft picks. 

If that did occur we would need to find some cheap replacements from trade or delisted free agency and so far we have been linked to no-one outside Grundy. 

Particularly because the talk draft is meant to be quite shallow and teams would rather push picks to next years draft. could be as few has 50 picks apparently. 

Form me I would rather keep Bedford, however we will lose a bit of run and pace out of the backline if Hunt goes. Not sure who replaces that ? Bowey is the one currently on our list I suppose. Also Hunt was playing some good lock down roles earlier in the season so I think he would be missed for sure. 

3 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

No, have a look at what the dogs lose/get, they lose Dunkely, and picks 11 & 29 and only get picks 14 and Lobb back. They can probably get Lobb on his own for pick 29 and might do a 14 to 11 downgrade, but in your scenario they'd be giving Dunkley up for nothing. Plus I doubt a 4 team trade would get anywhere near a starting point. 

Ah your right maybe the Dogs get Freo's future 1st or something ? but yes 4 team trade would be complicated. Just trying to find a way we can get two reasonably high picks off Freo in a trade for Jackson. 

Would something like this work if we have to deal with Fremantle?

Melb

Get - pick 8 (Dunkley trade), Pick 11 (WB 1st Round) or Frem 1st R 2023

Give - Luke Jacskon 

Port 

Get - Dunkley 

Give - Pick 8 

WB

Give - pick 29,  Pick 11 

Get - Rory Lobb , Pick 14 (Frem 1st Rounder) 

Frem  

Get - Luke Jackson, 29 

Give - Pick 14 , Rory Lobb 

31 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Well our 2 helped us win a flag. I can live with that.

If you want to employ hindsight, you could  look at Weid when McKay and Curnow were still available.

Every draft will throw up the “what ifs”.

 

Yeah you are right about that for sure 

6 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Jackson has been a microcosm of Melbourne's 2022 season so far.

Started the season hot against the Dogs and in parts against the Suns. Just went in wins against Essendon, Port, Richmond etc. Then got COVID along with a number of players and has been flat and uninspiring ever since.

Looking for a massive 4 week block from LJ but I'm not sure he has the age and experience to take the AFL by storm as of yet.

As for trades, if Freo want to do business with us, I'd do a straight swap for Victorian born Hayden Young. Young is an absolute star in the making and I predict will end up having a better career than Jackson. But alas, Young recently re-signed and has settled in nicely.

I agree Hayden Young would be have been a great trade option, but yes re-signed for 5 years recently. His kicking skills are fantastic ! 

This potential Jackson trade talk has got me thinking. As good as Jackson and Pickett have been and no doubt will be, would we have been better off drafting Hayden Young and Caleb Serong in that 2019 draft. two highly rated VIC kids ( no game home factor).

Currently they are  both looking like young stars of the competition ! 

On 4/4/2022 at 12:34 PM, Elwood 3184 said:

Does anyone know about Melbourne’s NGA players for 2022?

 I heard that we had another good NGA prospect coming through the ranks.

I know one NGA prospect for us is Finn Emille- -Brennan , not sure if he is this year or next. He made is debut for Dandenong Stingrays last weekend and had 30 touches. Smaller quick win/ flanker typer of player I believe. I played cricket with with him a few seasons back and he has been part of our NGA since about under 14s. really nice kid with the right attitude. 

Also I believe Mac Andrew's brother is part of our NGA , again not sure if he draft age this year ?  but I have heard he has some talent. 

Hopefully we have a few good NGA talents available to us in the next few years. Might be hard for all clubs if the AFL enforce the top 40 of the draft been unmatchable for bids on NGA players.