BenJamin on Deesy St

No mercy, no injuries, please Dees!

Mental strength has nothing to do with it if your heart’s not in it. Anyway, one could just as easily argue that he’s shown a great deal of mental strength in fronting up publicly and pulling the pin on his AFL career before season’s end - especially knowing full well that such a move would open himself up to the kind of ill-informed, mean-spirited commentary and ridicule that has come his way, yours included.

If we do make the finals (hallelujah!), we will be as well-prepared as we could be, with the quality of opposition and high stakes involved on the run home. And the players did learn some things from last week, including slowing the game down, going the boundary, creating stoppages, getting extra men behind the ball etc in the last Q. This was all very different to the frenetic, play-on at all cost mentality of last week (yes, rain played a part in this, too). That was the Crows’ last yelp for the season, and we quelled it. Effectively ended their season. As the players and coach said more or less afterwards, this was a result to feed and engender belief, not doubt.

Indeed we did. And so did Adelaide, which makes the win even more meritorious.

Agree with this. Undermanned (Viney, Lever, Hibberd), coming off last week’s gut-wrenching loss, against a desperate side in form at home and close to full strength (although Seedsman injury helped), 20 points down in first half, clawing our way back, having the balls to pull the trigger in the 3rd and then stack the defence in the last - in the wet - Sydney-style and guts out a win! A great test of the character and mental strength of this group of players, who are maturing before our eyes. Well done, Demons.

Just got home from Geelong. Took us 40 mins to get out of the god damn car park. Excruciating. Game reminded me of ‘87 pre-lim, but this time it wasn’t me bawling my eyes out, it was my daughter. Just horrible. Put this game together with Round 1, the Port and Saints games, and that’s the season - missed [censored] opportunities.

Made the trip again. No Jayden torp heroics yet - thought Clarry might try one before. Getting very dewy. Can we please kick straight?!!

Agree with the idea that our club has bent our minds over the years! But . . . Disagree with your rhetoric in this thread around MFC being an unambitious ‘old girl conservative’ club with ‘transient’ ‘sometimes’ members. Heard that stuff for decades, mostly from non-Melb supporters, and it’s frankly tiresome - and untrue. I know this has been posted on Demonland before, but on the subject of supporter loyalty and engagement, have a look at recent Roy Morgan research (links below). Among proportions of fans who go to games, Demons fans (~50%) are more likely than any other teams’ fans to go to a match (Melb v Haw game this year was a good case in point). And the conversion rate of our supporters to members is the second highest (behind the Bulldogs) in the AFL: http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7184-which-afl-teams-have-most-engaged-supporters-201703221004 http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7345-roy-morgan-afl-supporter-ladder-2017-201709210118 As to the notion of the club being old girl conservative (whatever that means), let’s not forget: • 1980s: appointment of Barassi as coach and the 5-year plan, which was pretty radical at the time, as was the Irish (and North American) recruiting experiment • 1990s: Alternative Demons ticket in response to failed merger and, of course, Diamond Joe • 2000s: taking the game to the Northern Territory, Jimmy’s debt demolition, appointment of Roos, pioneering women’s AFL, recruitment of Lever, abandoning poker machines So, yes, while we haven’t enjoyed the ultimate success since 1964, it’s not as though the club has been sitting on its hands and not making some bold moves since then, particularly in the last 5 years.

I was there, standing amongst a sea of red and black with one of my brothers, shouting DB deliriously!! Had 19 on my back soon after (replacing 17). What a win!

No doubt, but a good retort is that we had players missing too: Jayden, Pedo, Jeffy, Dom, Billy, Bugg, Frosty etc! What’s the saying, ‘you’re only as good as your last [5] games’?!! Very pleasurable. Playing like a real team - for each other.

Milkshake, T-Mac and Max all well ahead of him in my book. By the way, I’m not a betting man but I did have a small wager on Oliver getting more possessions than Cripps - lost out on that one by 5. The difference? 5 soft free kicks.

Cripps is no mug in the air. And they’re the same height (195cm). But, yes, next Sunday we’ll know a bit more about him and the team. Looking forward to it!

Lewis in 2017 Played 19 games (v career ave 21.8 games per season), averaged 26.3 disposals a game (v career ave 23.9), got better as the season went on (unlike many of his teammates), showed composure in a number of tight finishes (Carl, Port, WCE), was amongst our best in many of our crap losses (Nth x 2, Haw, Adel, Coll). Yes, had a couple of stinkers (QB and Syd) and got suspended (even though that act was clearly targeted at young bull and leader, Cripps, who at the time and like his team was strutting about and getting on top) but, overall on field, he did this season what he’s been doing for 13 years. Nothing too fancy: accumulating, persisting relentlessly, creating, moving the ball forward, setting up, going again, finding a way to win no matter the situation. All in a new team, new coach, different system, different role. Oh, and I’ve obviously been waiting for this, he just finished equal 3rd in the Bluey, singled out for his leadership by both Goodwin (in presenting trophy to Lewis) and Jones (in his own acceptance speech on sharing same award). I’d say there is incontrovertible evidence now, if there wasn’t before, of Lewis’ worth as a recruit AND leader, isn’t there? Oh, that’s right, the jury’s still out - 1 year out of 3 proves nothing, he’s just playing for his pension, he bleeds yellow and brown, he’s clearly past it, he got reported, not worth it, slow, fumbles, broke Jesse’s collarbone himself, got reported, slow, falls to ground and - did I mention? - he’s slow and got reported. As I’ve said before, the day a young Melb player tenaciously grabs his spot in the 22 will be an auspicious day for the club, ‘cos the old hardened 4-time premiership bastard ain’t gonna surrender his position in the team any time soon.

Not named in All-Australian 40-man squad. What a joke. (Hibberd, Jetta and Garlett named.)

My dad, who saw our last premiership (and many others before that), has a long-held view on this: the umps have something against the colour of our strip, most notably the red. It clouds their decision-making, threatens them in some way. Something about the sub-conscious, a primary colour, fear, blood. All that. Perhaps, the umps also resent the supposed old school ties and 'establishment' of the MFC. That there is, in other words, some sort of political class warfare going on with their decisions against us. Discrimination based on colour and class. Hold on, what's this topic about again?! (P.S. Yes, am taking the [censored], although all about my dad and his red colour theory is true!)

Sorry for harping on about this - I said I wouldn't but I can't resist. (Yes, I am quite pathetic. A true Demons tragic!) But Fat Tony, that is not the crux of the issue. I think you and VP have misunderstood the rhetorical nature of my question. The point I was trying to make was that for Lewis to miss out on selection from the start of next year, a better player and leader would have to replace him. And, if that were to happen, that would be a great outcome for the club. For Lewis is as proud, ruthless and professional as they come and he will not surrender his spot in the team meekly. P.S. On a totally unrelated matter, does anyone know how to edit a post that is already up in the forum? I unintentionally used a larger font in one of posts here, and I want to make it normal size (I wasn't trying to be rude!).

We're going around in circles and semantics here. Leadership, experience, easily confused?! The bloke was next in line to be captain at HFC, and was admitted into the 6-man leadership group at MFC during his first pre-season at the club. Anyway, at least we agree that MFC should have recruited him, that he was a decent pick-up and has had a good season. I'll leave my final words on this topic, which has been done to death, to Josh Mahoney. This is why we recruited Lewis, and his words have stood the test of time and will continue to do so, long after our own petty squabbles are etched in the ether: General Manager of Football Josh Mahoney said Lewis brings leadership qualities and an elite AFL mindset to the Club. “Jordan is a fierce competitor who is driven to win, and those are qualities that you can’t have enough of at our footy Club,” he said. “Clearly he is an elite AFL player and his footballing resume speaks for itself, but we also see Jordan as a leader who can play a major role in the development and mentoring of our younger players both on and off the field. “We know we are still a very young team. We are projecting to have half of our best 22 under the age of 23 next season and that’s why bringing in a player of Jordan’s experience and calibre was important to us. “He understands where we are at as a Club. He knows we have a considerable amount of work to do before becoming a consistent finals team, but the example he will set for our younger players will be invaluable for us.”

A considered response, VP, I'll give you that, but one with which I disagree. No blind adulation here. MFC knew what they were getting. My expectations weren't as high as yours. We can pick and choose the good and the bad until the cows come home. I happen to think the good far outweighs the bad, that he makes us a better team, and that his impact and influence at critical times in multiple games - not just recently - have been evident throughout the season. I also admire how he has been one of our best performers during a period when many of his teammates were flat. That's what I look for in a player more than anything - who steps up when the chips are down. Who still believes we can win, no matter the situation. As for your dismissing Lewis' leadership and off-field value as a supposition, well, I suggest you go to training and ask his teammates and his coaches or, better still, we all go to the B&F function and see and hear for ourselves!

Seems to me, VP, that you might be wrestling with some inner demons of your own (pardon the pun) on this non-issue, what with your personal dislike of Lewis set against the body of work that he has produced so far this season. Forgive the paraphrasing, but I gather that the main thrust of your posts is this: Lewis is overrated both as a player and a leader, his sharp decline is fast-approaching (or, at least, faster than most of us think) and, therefore, we shouldn't have recruited him. Is that about it? If so, that sounds pretty black and white to me, with a bit of crystal ball gazing thrown in. But who gives a flying proverbial, right?! Time will tell, right and wrong, no place to hide, heavens above and all that jazz. Here's a discussion point for you: with most of the home-and-away season now done - already Melbourne's best in 11 years - I'm interested to know what more Lewis has to do to persuade you (and your brethren!) that he has been, at the least, a decent pick-up by the club. And here's another one - and I'm going out on a cyberspace limb here and peering into my own crystal ball, but what the hell: even if Lewis were not to play one more senior game for the next two years, would you consider his recruitment a success? I would. Why? Because, to me, for that scenario to eventuate (unlikely as it is and barring injury, of course), a young up-and-coming Dees bull and leader, who would have benefited from the winning and ruthlessly professional attitude and ethos that Lewis brings to the club, would have to have prised - with every ounce of G&D and sheer bloody-mindedness - the old door off its proud and rusted-on hinges, to get to the point of demanding selection over such a player. And, as it turns out, I for one look forward to that day, the sooner the better.

Just admit it, TGR (and your naysaying brethren), that nothing less than Lewis winning the Bluey trophy, Norm Smith medal and his 5th premiership medallion - all in the same year - will convince you that he has been a good pick-up by the MFC. Don't worry, you'll get your gotcha moments, your "I told you so" moments, soon enough with his next fumble, missed handball, slight slip-up or whatever other supposed sign of terminal decline you wish to focus on and continually peddle. In the meantime, perhaps you could acknowledge, respect and - heaven forbid - even enjoy what Lewis has already offered the club.

Drawn a long bow there, VP, but glad you're coming around - in effect. To me, Lewis has been a consistent performer all year. Wouldn't surprise me if he's around the 5-10 mark, if not better, in B&F. I pointed out his efforts of the last month, in particular, not to highlight that he's been cruising beforehand - far from it - but to show that he's been one of the few who have stood up during a time when many of his teammates have dropped off.

No surprise. The guy is a champ and we're getting to pointy end. His incredibly brave acts in final qtr alone have hopefully put to bed some ridiculous commentary on here about him not going in hard enough. Arguably our best performer over the last month.

Growing up, I wore number 7 (Brian Wilson) on my back, while my brothers had 2 (Flower), 3 (Gerard Healy) and 9 (Alan Johnson). If we're going to include these guys in the conversation as best MFC midfielders over last 30 odd years, then Clarry - as good as he is - has a bit to go. Willo won a Brownlow as a 20 year old centreman. Johnno was a 2-time B&F winner as a wingman (later a champion back pocket) with Robbie in the team. Heals was all silk and a fantastic goal kicker. And Robbie, well, he remains a class above any Melbourne player, let alone midfielder, I've ever seen.

The man has won me over – after playing what he admitted later was a shocker, he picked out my 7-year-old daughter over the boundary line fence after the QB game, and handed her his signed footy. People write off ageing champions every day. And yes – in this sport - he is a champ, declining or not. Averaging over 25 touches a game this season, still adjusting to new club, personnel, system of play etc. Not bad thus far is an understatement. One poor game. Watch him respond. P.S. First-time poster, long-time Melbourne supporter (back when we wore the royal blue and red!). Thanks Demonland, discovered this site about a year ago, really enjoy reading this forum, win or lose.