At the break of Gawn

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

- Progress over the past 2 years where he regressed back to old habits of an unprofessional to his training and preparation

- He had a hamstring injury, not like he was coming back from a knee reco give me a spell. So he needed 6 weeks in the reserves to regain fitness before being able to return to the seniors? From a 3 week injury? This is just utter rubbish. And if a full time professional AFL player who has been in the system 9 years and has barely had any prolonged length of time out injured hasn't built up enough of a tank to cope with 4 weeks out with a hammy and needs another month to regain fitness in the reserves then that proves the point being made by the FD in regards to his approach to his training and his profession.

- When has he won a game off his own boot? He kicked the matchwinners against the Pies and last year against the Suns but I wouldn't say he won those games off his own boot. Didn't even poll in Queens Bday game, Petracca got the votes from memory

- Is he taking a stab at McCartney here? A guy who he helped bring in to the club?

- Why does he think Goodwin may have changed his views? Obviously something has happened in the interim, since he left the club

- I would be astonished if Watts wasn't given a heads up that a trade could be an option. Not saying it didn't happen  but we are taking Roos' version of what Watts presumably told him here. Perhaps when "exploring options" was raised in his exit interview he was oblivious to what it meant? 

- Poor if it came from his manager, he should've been notified by the club and the discussion should've been had so he was under no illusions why the club was taking this path.

Whatever your grievances are with Paul Roos' comments, I think everyone on this board can agree that the last point is the most damning. A player of 9 years deserved to be told that up front. Screams of cowardliness by the FD not to tell the guy directly. 

15 minutes ago, mo64 said:

No, I actually take the word of the current coach and FD ahead of what Roos has got to say. Why didn't Roos mention Watts little trip to Byron?

Roos has given us more insight into this than any of the abstract comments Goody has made. 

5 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Roos gets away with shooting his mouth off without anybody questioning him. I'd take him to task on the above points.

 - His progress in the latter of his past 2 years resulted in a 21st placed finish in the B&F. But obviously Roos knows better than those that he left in charge.

- If Watts isn't an elite endurance player, then what is his role in the team? He's not a KPF. He's hasn't got explosive pace like Garlett. Without elite endurance or pace, you don't survive as an outside player. And Watts needs to take responsibility for his own recovery from injury instead of jetting off to Byron Bay, which Roos conveniently left out.

- I can't think of 1 game where Watts has won it off his own boot, let alone 6-8. He may have made a significant contribution, but that's different to being a matchwinner.

Roos is full of sh#t.

And so is your first point when he only played 16 games. Top 6 after his first 12 games. And played 4 of the next 10 games, which 3 we're poor after into injury. Finishing 21 it's not a good measure. Would like to see how he finished overall with the players in the 14-16 game range.

2 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I have to say - the above neatly sums up my view in relation to the Watts situation exactly. 

I don't know why it's such a controversial viewpoint to some here.

 

Also had a listen to the Paul Connors interview on SEN just then.

- Watts has got his head around now leaving the MFC

- Watts would want a good relationship coach. Sort've said he's a bit tired of people who doesn't praise the things he does really well yet Jack never avoids chatting about his limitations. 

https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=147059

1 hour ago, the rolling fog said:

What show was this on Gawny? 

Might try to track it down...

http://player.triplem.com.au/melbourne/#/shows/The Hot Breakfast/11397

Was actually in the morning. Start at the 48min mark.

Key points from the segment (also contains snippets of a small interview with Trac and Gawn regarding Watts)

- Gawn and Petracca surprised by the trade and don't want him to go. Trac said that if Mahoney and Viney think it's best for the club then so be it (maybe it's not Goody?). He's Gawny's best friend so he said he'll watch him in the stands anyway wherever he goes but would great to still have him around.

- Roos said Watts is an extremely popular player at the club. Roos was shocked with the news after his progress after the past 2 years

- Said Watts is not a player you can bring straight back from injury. He's not an elite endurance player and requires time to build that up again. Said the club should've taken some responsibility in bringing him back too early

- Roos/Goody were sick of talking about Watts just because he's a no.1 pick. Once you're in the system you're just an AFL player. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. Players need to take responsibility of their weaknesses but need nurturing/support

- Claimed that Watts won 6-8 games off his own boot the last two years.

- likened the strengths/weaknesses situation to Johannisen. JJ couldn't get a game under McCartney. Beveridge focused on his positives and used his strengths to good effect.

- Goody was really supportive of Watts at end of 2016. So is unsure what had changed with Goody's views, but Goody would be taking advice from whole FD.

- Watts thought exit interview went ok. Not completely positive. But nothing unusual.

- Watts was advised by Connors first he was going to be traded. Not by the club. 

- Just added the usual positives about Jack. Elite decision maker, beautiful kick etc etc. Is suited in a top 8 side.

Anyone listen to Roos on MMM around midday? He said that Watts was given no indication in the exit interview that he was going to be traded. Apparently the exit interview went ok (not great) but he certainly didn't think it was leading to a trade. If true, then that's poor transparency from Goodwin on that front. 

One thing for certain out of all of this is that even after he's traded, I still sense a Jack Watts thread will still be active on the forum discussing his performance. He's not like Howe, or Frawley etc. Melbourne supporters who are fans of JW will still take keen interest in his career. 

1 hour ago, JTR said:

According to big screen he was 6th on 166 votes (for memory - may have been 164) after 14 rounds 

 

Yep, I recall that too. Was 10th after round 8.

Rnd 9 - did nothing

Rnd 10 - big second half and got >20 possessions

Rnd 12 - QBD

Rnd 13 - 3 goals and dominant forward until injured

1 minute ago, Petraccattack said:

Came 21st in the B and F

 

Gun.  

You do realise he was 6th after round 14 from which was one game after he got injured? Clearly, his first half impressed the coaches.

Anyone get the full leaderboard after round 14?

1 minute ago, Lord Travis said:

If Viney polled that well putting in limited mediocre performances, he’ll win again tonight. He really got going through the middle of the year until injury hit him. 

Coach's pet. Garlett should probably be second after round 8.

10th in the b&f after 8 rounds. Probably as expected but not worse as some would think.

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

There'll be no "he who has the last laugh - and is gifted" speeches?

haha to be fair the Prince did finish in the top 5 that year which allowed him to do that that now infamous speech. 

57 minutes ago, demonique said:

How many people on this forum actually know Jack Watts personally ? I don’t that’s for certain . How many people are deciding their opinion of him with absolutely know idea what he is like ! Just a wild guess here , I’m thinking everybody in the football department do know him quite well . I have really no opinion on this dividing issue because of the issue above ! 

Having said that , he doesn’t appear to me to be setting the world on fire as a professional sportsman after 9 years ! Sometimes brilliant and sometimes pretty darn ordinary! So frustrating to realize he could be anything , but,  has this fatal flaw  in his preparation! 

Here's my true, but false sounding, knowledge of Jack. I have a friend who has a group of friends that do hang around Jack (they play basketball, talk about NBA etc). He  definitely likes to have a good time  (socially)off the field - so that rumour I know is true, but i think 99% of the people on this forum already know that. 

1 hour ago, Grand New Flag said:

It will be very interesting if JW gets an opportunity to speak tonight. 

There are those in the club who have prepared for the possibility JW will make an impassioned speech of his love for the club, apologises for letting team members, supporters and the club in general down, declaring his desire to do what ever it takes to win a premiership for Melbourne before declaring that he will not authorise a trade.  

This is possible and would be making a big statement.

From what I hear the thing that has really got Watts offside with the coach and some players is going away to Byron to promote his board short business while he was injured.  Watts did not do rehab properly while away and lost so much fitness he was useless on his return. A 2 week injury turned into 4 plus the 3 weeks it took to get him back to full fitness.

 

 

lol, I've been to a couple of B&Fs and they normally run a pretty tight ship. They won't let him near the stage tonight unfortunately. Although that would be great viewing! Instead, he'll just be the elephant in the room. 

I feel sorry for him and all the fans he'll have to deal with with tonight asking him to stay and he'll just have to awkwardly answer with "Sorry, not much I can do when they want you gone". 

9 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

This is BS. Jack Watts is yet to believe or commit Jack Watts to undertaking the required essential to be part of a successful team, and indeed for that to to indeed be successful.

If Jack Watts had Jack Viney's professionalism, intensity and commitment to making himself a better player and winning, he'd be a dead set champion. But he doesn't, and he's weirdly surprised that the MFC think he should... 

Paul, none of these players have had any success. I seriously can't take their word of what they think success looks like. It's like taking advice from a sprinter who trains the most but always finishes last. People thought Cotchin would never be a premiership captain, or Dimma a premiership coach... look at them now. 

Haven't heard anything from J Lewis on this yet. Perhaps he will back up Jones' views. 

I understand the adoration towards Jones - he's the heart and soul of the footy club, always puts in 110%, but at the end of the day, if we don't win a premiership in the next couple of years, Jones will just remind me of one of those guys at a company who worked  for 40 years in the same accounting role never achieving anything great. He's never won anything more than a handful of best and fairests for a bottom 6 side. He doesn't know what success is, and even Goodwin, who's premiership achievements were 20 years ago as a player, I'm not even sure about.

This whole FD, has never had any recent success, yet they somehow know that someone of Jack's DNA doesn't make up the blueprint for success?

If someone like a Geelong or Sydney pick up Jack and feel he can be part of their successful ways, then I guess history might look back at this decision and say "This FD didn't really know how to achieve success, but their single-mindedness led them to believe that someone like Jack can't be part of a successful team".

2 hours ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

Ok. I said before I wasn't going to add anything else here and I have been trying to wean myself off this thread.....BUT......the smell keeps getting worse and worse around here (and I don't think its coming from Mrs Chewy).

What I don't understand is that if Jack came back, in what has been put publicly out to everybody, in such a "poor" condition (although I've heard he did a PB in his 3km time trial), how is it that he was able to get himself back up into good enough condition to play the first round? Would that be physically possible? And, if his condition was so poor, how hard would he have had to have worked to have got the nod to play the first game. Particularly because they clearly (correctly) have the intention of not ever wanting to "gift" him (or any player for that matter) games.

No one has ever said it was his condition on return that was the issue, but rather him not meeting the KPIs set out in the training sessions. This was either due to one of two things I'd say:

a) He didn't come back fit enough to hit these metrics

b) He wasn't applying himself as much as he could in achieving the metric improvements to last year. E.g. taking it easy OR unaware that the bar had been raised.

I remember hearing a Paul Connors interview on SEN just around the time JW got dropped after the GWS game and he was asked about the preseason issue. Connors eluded to the fact that not achieving these metrics was actually debatable when comparing JW to the rest of the team, and that Jack was being treated differently. My stab in the dark hypothesis is that a % increase required of Watts by the FD was on the expectation JW would come build on his 2016 levels whereas Jack may have been unaware that the goal posts had changed.

Might not be the right decision for the club but it's the right decision for Jack (which I say with a heavy heart). You can't continue at an organisation when your boss doesn't want you there

I'll just leave these here...

20 minutes ago, demon-4-life said:

My 2 cents:

For those saying this is all "Goodwin", and Roos got the most out of Watts etc.  Sure, that may be true, but so what?  It's Goodwin's team now.  He can shape the list how he sees fit.  We don't talk negatively about Roos bringing on board Michie, Riley, Kennedy et al.  We just go with it.  Roos has been great with culture absolutely.  He has only won 1 premiership as a coach.  

With Goodwin, he's a premiership player x 2, a captain of a footy club and a natural leader.  I back him in knowing what it takes to build a premiership list.  

To Watts.  Yes he's loyal, and a great club man.  Yes he has skill.  These types of individuals definitely have their place in any club and have great benefit.  What he simply lacks is his drive or ambition to do what it takes to be the best.  In the past, this may have been enough, but with the professionalism of AFL now, it simply is not.  I use Trent Cotchin as an example this year.  Previously I would have put Cotchin in Watts category.  Nice, polite, and skillful.  This year he pushed himself to the next level.  His desire to get "dirty" and put his body on the line really showed.  I'm yet to see this in Watts.  

There was a post comparing stats earlier about Watts and Lynch.  That is quite damning.  Something that we don't have stats for, which would essentially find Watts out in my opinion is the number of times his marking contests brought the ball to ground when he didn't mark it.  Our game plan is if we can't mark it in the fwd 50, to bring it to ground and trap it in our forward 50.  When Watts didn't do this during the year on several occasions, it led to a transition and goal or score down the other end quite often.  It releases the pressure both implied and scoreboard and kills momentum.  

Long story short, it's clear that when we make finals next year, Goodwin simply doesn't feel confident in picking Watts as he's not sure which Watts he would be getting.  Thus...he's a liability. 

Watts is not a Travis Cloke who will always bring it to ground. He's a Jack Gunston type, leads up at the ball, uses his pace and superior kicking to open up the field of play. He's better as a high forward or wingman.

Goodwin trying to get Watts to fly at the ball and become a contested marking beast from round 1 was the disconnect which has led to this. Instead of focusing on Watts' strengths, he tried to change Watts' weaknesses which has achieved nothing. If the terms of Jack's role next year is to do the same, then for his sake he should leave as Goodwin doesn't know how to call a spade a spade. 

52 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

People worried about Watts playing a blinder against us? He had 2 blinders in his 150 games, lol! He'll be delisted in 2 seasons. Another feather in Goodwins cap.

One thing that this thread has highlighted to me is that we really need a "thumbs down" reaction for this forum. The angry face one just doesn't encapsulate the reaction of a [censored] post like a thumbs down does. 

18 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

Isn’t that Gawns account? I reckon he is just stirring the pot!

Definitely stirring the pot. Gawn would be well aware of all the dees fans that follow him. 

21 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

That's a solid summary that i can't argue with BOG.  My worry here is that Goody (and friends / assistants) are possibly playing favourites here but then there's the pre-season issue that Watts allegedly brought upon himself.  We can only speculate as to how others in the playing group are viewing all this.   The downside, if unfavourable, would be yet another potential ugly period ahead for this club if the culture turns sour.....again!!

Thanks. I get that there are no certainties in life, but when you sign a contract, you should at least have a sense of comfort that the club wants you around and your future is secure at the club. These contacts aren't designed for a club to break when a player has a drop in form, and Watts hasn't got arrested here. List management have made a three year decision, and it seems the FD are trying to wriggle out of a contract when there's a few clouds. 

How does something like this communicate faith in a players ability to get through a rough patch? This fosters a culture of mistrust and will have players anxious about being traded when they have a drop in form. 

19 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

 

Sounds like a guy whos petrified of going to a new club and coach and having to work hard and earn his stripes and make new friends.

Kinda sad really.   Trade him.

 

Rubbish. Watts was all but going at the end of 2013 until Roos implored him to stay and tell him that this club can be great again. 

He steadily works on his game over 2014-2015 playing a variety of different positions and then has a great 2016 where there club has offered him a new contract,and he, yes Jack, turned his back on free agency to commit to the Dees again on the promise of playing finals footy.

He starts off with a pretty well 2017 and then it's dropped after some crap form after his first major injury in his career. Then, the coach, not the club, wants him out, after all the opportunities he's had to leave the Dees but he's shown loyalty, and now the coach is offering nothing. I'd be pretty [censored] off too.