At the break of Gawn

Just wondering, when was the last time a Melbourne player resigned on his own accord? Was it Neitz?

I'm not linking it to the JW situation, but it had me thinking about this club not treating their best club men like they deserved. 

1 hour ago, binman said:

Sorry, i'm not what you men with this post. Both sentences confuse me. 

Please explain.

Really? Simon was bad mouthing him at a corporate function that he was invited to as a guest speaker. The bad mouthing happened during a group conversation after the official proceedings (i.e. not said publicly)

37 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Hmm, I'm all for moving him on as some of his attributes annoy me as much as his kicking delights me but Goodwin shouldn't be doing this IMO. I agree with him wholeheartedly which is why I want him gone but this isn't the way to do it. There really must be a lot more to this story than we are hearing IMO.

He's been doing it at other social events too. Heard a description of Watts' leading patterns that was far from complimentary. 

2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

It's clear that the winning the contest is non-negotiable for Simon Goodwin and it is negotiable for Jack Watts.  This has been made clear to Jack and he has been unable to modify his behaviour.  We have been decent in contested ground balls but we are pathetic at the aerial contest and Jack Watts at 196cm offers nothing here.  So he will be traded.

The last 2 GFs vindicate this position - contested possessions Tigers 170 v Crows 140, Dogs 172 v Swans 149 - the less talented team won both flags - it's that simple.

Looking at market value.  Jake Melksham for 25, Michael Hibberd for 29 and late pick upgrade.  That where he sits.

Excellent post. I'm unashamedly a JW fan, but I think the big thing is that Goodwin has a role that he has wanted Watts to play and he has failed to deliver. Goodwin looks at Watts' height, strength, and says "fly for the ball, crash packs, bring the ball to ground if you can't mark it". Goodwin is a subscriber of the Richmond model, not the Adelaide model. The problem with this for Watts is that he isn't that sort of player, and never will be. Watts strength had always been a lead up player who can deliver the ball well into the 50, and can kick any goal from a mark inside 50.

Roos understood this and knew his limitations.

Goodwin tried to change Watts and failed. 

Whoever recruits him, hopefully Longmire, will understand the type of player he is and not try and turn him into a Travis Cloke who he has never been.

It's Jack's fault for not being flexible enough to play a new role, but I also blame Goodwin for trying something which was clearly not going to work and was too stubborn to realise this and overlook all the other great assets Watts possesses. 

Perhaps the FD can work out a compromise to appease the supporters? 

My suggestion: Trade Watts to a Victorian based club and then hire him as a part-time goal kicking coach. Win-Win. 

3 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

Just to clarify it took Hardwick 8 seasons to win a flag, finished 13th in 2016 and they wanted a new board & to sack the coach!

I think we can allow Goodwin to coach after his 1st season!

Just to compare our lists, I took their gun players vs ours. A bit of perspective?

Reiwolt  225 games 28yo         Hogan 51 games 22yo

Cotchin 198 games 27yo         Viney 88 games 23yo

Martin 178 games 26yo           Petracca 39games 21yo

Rance  175 games 27yo          Oliver 35 games 20yo

                                                     Tom Mac 126 games 25yo

                                                     

                                                      

Bit over the top to put TMac in that bracket. Rance had 2 or 3 AAs at Tmac's age. 

Also don't think anyone on our list is going to be better than Martin.

Hogan might be better than Riewoldt if he ends up staying with us and learns how to kick. 

Perhaps he meant go from the media? Regardless, G Lyon is probably one of the most damaging ex-clubman going around. Unlike Richo who has an undying love for this former club and will never say a bad word about them, G Lyon thinks Melbourne were fortunate to have him and he's always the first to kick us when we're down in the media. To add further salt to the wound, he assisted with the hiring of Mark Neeld. 

Would we ask G Lyon to present the premiership cup next year? Hell no. 

11 minutes ago, piddz said:

But it is crystal clear that Watts is being kicked out of the club? Goodwin even stated that he 'asked Watts to explore his options'. The Dom Tyson SEN interview wreaked of the players dislike towards the decision. I won't post specifics as i don't care enough about persuading nay sayers to throw mates under the bus, needless to say Jack was messaged personally and while he replied professionally open-ended, the message concluded with 'it is hard to succeed when you're not wanted there.' 

Yep, definitely not wanted anymore. Goodwin can make it sound a mutual thing all he likes in front of a Channel 7 camera, but it's obvious who's breaking up with who.

I wonder if all the media speculation about Watts is also deemed as a distraction to the club? Jack obviously has no control over it, but I wonder if Goody & Co, are concerned with all the media scrutiny that comes with Watts and they might be worried that a successful team with Watts playing in the 2s would always cast a negative story about Watts rather than focusing on the success of the football team. Goodwin clearly gets frustrated with all the questions surrounding Jack. 

Watching Jack Riewoldt today just reminds me how important it is to nail yours set shots

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

there it is

Basically just means they don't care if he stays or goes. He's not going to create too much of an inconvenience at Casey all year, but the media attention will be ridiculous, so perhaps that's another reason they want him to leave. 

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Goodwin just interviewed on pre-game coverage for the Grand Final on change 7. He was quite open when asked about trades.

When asked about Watts, said the club was happy for Jack to explore his options but was welcome back at the club if he didn't find what he was looking for. They then mentioned Watts was in Port Adelaide seeing their facilities and having some meetings and what he thought of that. Goodwin said he was happy for Jack to explore his options, as he's had 9 years at MFC and a lot of pressure to deal with. Said a different environment may be good for him.

Based off that interview, Watts is gone. 100% gone if the club get a decent offer.

After watching the interview, I got the impression that the FD doesn't feel he's part of their plans and basically said, you can try your luck exploring other clubs to get better opportunities, but if you stay you'll be certainly battling an uphill battle to be selected based off your current playing style and preparation i.e. you'll be on the outer.

Since how he's contracted he doesn't have to agree to the trade, but I can understand why he wouldn't want a whole year playing Casey.

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Why shouldn't it?  It looked like he might be turning a corner, again, so he got a new contract and in some respects went back to the way he was.  If anything the expectations for him are greater than those who haven't been in the system as long.  He shouldn't be making these mistakes.

Back to old ways? The 2016 JW was still there for 2017 until his hamstring injury. I'd still rate his 2017 season over his 2015, 2014, 2013, etc etc. 

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Whilst I agree with this, you can only take those individuals so far.  Maybe Goodwin believes he has gotten as far as he can with Jack, and if he is still not meeting the expectations the club has set in place after 9 years in the system, then they may need to set an example in this situation by moving him on.  A behaviour ignored is a behaviour condoned, and if we continue to allow Jack to not commit himself fully to the club (as has been discussed) then we need to make a clean break.

I don't see how the 9yr thing makes a difference? He was 8 years last year and they gave him a three year contract. Surely the expectations should only be how he is serving his current contract rather than how he served previous ones?

I somehow get the feeling that his papers were stamped after his issues in the pre-season. I get that Watts should have came back with a desire to be even better, but I think after 8 years of bashing, he probably thought he could reward himself with a trip to the US/Bali knowing that he had gained the respect of his peers. He clearly made a mistake and from listening to interviews, he definitely regrets the way he handled his off-season.

In regards to his 2017 season, he clearly came back underdone, and Goodwin when asked about his demotion, purely said that Watts' form was off and even Jack himself was disappointed with his return. A guy who thinks he's doing enough doesn't get frustrated or disappointed with his own form. He was hampered by the hamstring injury which led him to not being able to do all the things he wanted to do freely, like running to space, leading, pressure acts etc. Any leg injuries, especially hamstrings, are difficult to recover from and cause you to be hesitant in risk of doing the same injury. They also kill your endurance levels as you can't do any vigorous cardio exercises for a number of weeks. A broken arm is fine - as you won't lose any cardio fitness over the break. In addition, it takes at least 2 weeks for an AFL player to get back to the speed of the game after a lengthy lay-off with an injury that affects your running. This was seen with Gawn, Jones, Hogan (after illness), Joel Selwood even. 

I think it's overly harsh to trade him after 3 poor weeks where he lacked match fitness because of his injury, and I can't see that being the only reason which why I think it either has to do with the pre-season, or something else is at play. His first VFL game was ok, his second he was listed in the best (and had a big influence on the game for those who watched), and was again listed in our best players against the Pies on his AFL return.

So, from the day he signed his 2016 contract, he's put in 3 really poor AFL games and now he's being traded?

It has to be the pre-season thing plus something else. 

2 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Maybe the media department is on holidays...

...gone missing after the round 23 communications debacle. 

Re communications around Watts:

• Beveridge had it right with Stringer.  Do the deadly deed.  Wear the backlash for a few days and everyone moves on. 
• Instead we have a captain and coach dragging out a vague, negative narrative about Watts.  Then the news he is being traded leaks and gains momentum, supporters raising petitions, ex club characters and team mates publicly support him, reports of conflict among FD decision makers.  Unless someone at the club comes out and says something akin to Beveridge this will drag out for weeks.  All very messy.

So the question you imply is very valid:  Where is the media department?  Who is managing the public face of the club atm?

Answer...?

I was beginning to think mfc had become a well run and well disciplined club off the field: internal harmony, no leaks, consistent public messaging, strong leadership etc.

Since round 23 that solidity off field does not seem as strong as I thought it was.

Agree - The official MFC media response has been deafening with silence. 

35 minutes ago, mo64 said:

In the lead up to the GF, every analyst is talking about structures, and in particular defensive pressure within the forward lines. Jack Watts has got more talent than every Richmond forward bar Jack Riewoldt. Would the Richmond forwardline function better with Jack Watts? I doubt it, because it's all based on pressure.

Last week on SEN, Goodwin was asked about ideal forward structures, and said that you have to predominantly work with the strengths you have. He mentioned Petracca, Hogan and T Mac. No mention of Watts.

Watts is a skillful player, but what role does he play in our forward structure? He's not a prolific goalkicker. He's poor at creating contests because he doesn't hit packs. He's poor at defensive pressure. ANB and Hannan are less talented, but the FD obviously believe that they complement our strengths. In 9 years and under 4 coaches, Watts has never been able to cement a defined role within the team.

Why wouldn't we be looking to trade him while he has some sort of currency?

 

 

They are some good points, but Hogan's second efforts and pressure are worse than Watts. The key forward can't get away with doing nothing on that front.

5 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Haha cmon mate. You're the one who brought up the.comparison 

Id take Jones over Watts evey day of the week, if that's your next comparison 

Haha yeah true. Was just pointing out that he's not the only one without a perfect tenure.

2 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Agreed Max is not an unreasonable comparison 

But Max was also an AA and has injury hamper his develpment.

How many times has watts been AA again?

 

The same number as Nathan Jones.

28 minutes ago, DavidNeitz9 said:

we are looking to trade a player who has achieved 1 top 5 B&F finish in 9 years,  hardly surprising, i have no idea why some are so shocked

I reckon Max Gawn also equals that stat.

31 minutes ago, grazman said:

I don't think Roos anointed Goodwin as his successor because he thought he'd be his clone.  Pretty sure he was after someone that had a clear vision and an idea how to achieve it.  

I didn't hear any criticism from Roos in that interview of either Goodwin or the club if they trade Jack.  All his comments were prefaced with if it was him he wouldn't do it, but he's not in a position to know.  He clearly loves Jack, but he also commented on outsiders second guessing clubs when they didn't have all the facts. 

True, but I reckon he'd be disappointed if Goodwin starts to erode the culture in roads he'd made at the club. Watts would get hounded by the way he prepared on game day because he'd come in relaxed and not serious enough. Neeld hated him for that and would isolate him from the rest of the group. Roos taught the FD that these deferent personalities can still excel with the right coaching and guidance. He accepted Wattsy's differences and realised not everyone is a Jack Viney. He knew how to motivate him and got the best out of him.

4 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Do you think that's based on the whack he gave in the media, or something more substantial?

If it was true, then the media criticism would be just the tip of the iceberg you'd think.

I'm also hearing rumors that it's Nathan Jones who wants Watts out. I wonder how crazy this can get?

From Paul Roos: 

You can't always harp on people's weaknesses. That's the problem that certainly existed before I got to Melbourne," he said.

"Every player has got weaknesses. Wattsy responded when you talk about his positiives – he's an elite kick, he's an elite decision maker, he's a very good player.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/09/28/roos-and-schwarz-urge-dees-to-re-think-watts-trade-plans/

So... the guy who taught Goodwin how to coach, who rebuilt this club, and extracted the best year out of Watts is telling him not to trade him. Hmm, I know who I'd listen to.

Read the comments on Facebook about saying he was getting kicked out...

The best n fairest is going to be awkward if he's there. I wonder if Goody and Macca will ask him not to come?

33 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This is what it’s all about

Goodwin doesn’t care about Draft Picks

he backs himself to Coach like Bellamey (long term)

i thought this last summer when Watts was disciplined. 

Goodwin couldn’t care whether Jack was a number 1 draft pick

Adelaide also has the best captain in the league and a great leadership group. Tex is a lad who can have fun but is as selfless as anyone out on the field. We've had an uncommunicative, angry and downtrodden midfielder who doesn't posses any leadership qualities who just bombs the ball in. Then we now also have a young kid who just loves a tough ball get and plays 16hrs of pc games on his days off. 

I can't see this club going anywhere until we have a proper leader. Jettisoning guys who don't fit the "serious persona" won't get us anywhere.