deespicable me

The crowd at Ikon Park was definitely dissapointing.

Lovely balmy evening, but very few there considering the players close contacts were probably half the crowd. From the west myself I refuse to trek out to Casey any more, but try to get to any game within inner city, but this year we were so often at Casey or interstate it just highlights our issues of a home ground. Maybe we would have got more at Casey? 

I think we'll win it this year and if our last two finals are at Ikon Park I'll be wrapped. Free parking everywhere 2 minutes from the ground.

This is Daisy's last hurrah I would think and if they finally get a flag it would be fitting for the standout icon of the Women's game. I think Daisy will be as important and as much loved in Melbournes history as Robbie Flower in years to come. People really should be taking their chance to see her in action. Also if your as lucky as me you might also get to see Allissa Bannen go for a 7 bounce run around the wing leaving a couple of crows players in her dust. Wow, she's terrific.

On 10/4/2022 at 12:05 PM, george_on_the_outer said:

4. We have only had a handful of women on the MFC board in our history.  We still don't have a true representation of our members.

Does this mean Collingwood should have a dog on their board.

Surely, given we aren't getting enough for Jackson, getting Lobb and pick 13 would be a better outcome than trading for Bruce.

3 hours ago, A F said:

You might have been brought in a time when housing was affordable on a single income. We've now had 31 years of underemployment in Australia (ie Australians needing more than one job to keep up) and a housing boom since the late 80s that has locked out two and a half generations from the housing market.

The world isn't as simple as you or your mother portray it. In the words of The Waterboy, "well, mumma's wrong again!"

I don't know your personal situation AF but I certainly don't know of too many footballers of the ilk of Jackson that are concerned by having to work 2 jobs to "keep up."

Of course it was a different time, and my mother who is 94 was talking about that time. So she wasn't wrong. And your rubbish about 2.5 generations being locked out of the housing market is just that. Rubbish. 

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

It isn't just WA players.  Here are a few others in recent times that have gone home within a few years of being drafted.. 

• Tom Boyd:  pick 1
• Josh Schache:  pick 2
• Jesse Hogan: pre draft priority pick
• Luke Jackson:  pick 3
• Adam Cerra:  pick 5
• Jason Horn Francis:  pick 1
• Tanner Bruhn:  pick 12
• Isaac Rankine:  pick 3

I'm sure there are lots of others around the league.

And of course many have stayed the course at an i/state club.  But still a big risk at the pointy end.

So good on WCE.

Geelong are certainly adopting the recruit locals appproach.  Most of their top end recruits in recent years have been 'locals' ie Greater Geelong region.  Nearly half their list will be 'locals'

It's parenting. For better or worse.

My mum always said that children when they get to an adult need to be "kicked out of the nest"

Dads were very big on loyalty. Stick to your club. They are your new home.

Nowadays the kids are told, just do you're time and you can trade back home.

8 minutes ago, BDA said:

They had Cerra as well. He would have been included in the deal for sure

Yes but if we just got everything we wanted we'd all be barracking for Geelong. 

There is solace in the fact that Freo have and probably will never win a flag.

On 9/14/2022 at 8:06 PM, Tracca said:

Harry McKay

Aaron Naughton

Tom Lynch

Max King

 

I could go on. 

Our game style has changed from last year we were a lot quicker into the forward line.

I don't want to have Ben brown up forward and have to rely on perfect entry for him to take a mark.

No one said about any team needing to rely on having a pack marking forward.

I however want a forward who is 200cm tall to have some sort of ability to crash packs and take a contested mark from time to time, not run under the ball or literally have to two grab marks every opportunity he gets

If you go back across the VFL year and put together a highlights package on Van Rooyen not knowing his background, I think many on here would be drooling over him. And he's already on our list.

His output was comparable to Hogan in his year and with another pre-season in the gym he will hit the ground in round 1 at approx 105kg and an appetite for senior footy.  He should play 15 plus games next year with at least 5 of those where he will be a liability, but we have to play him next year to develop him properly. All discussions about our forward line should I think take him into account. 

17 hours ago, Hannibal Inc. said:

Anything I say about Grundy is done so under one important proviso, his body gets back to being 100% (or very close to it).

Grundy is twice AA and twice a Copeland Trophy winner.

He's 203cm to Weideman's 195cm.

How you can equate their onfield output as being anything remotely similar is not only beyond me, I find it extraordinary.

Well firstly I didn't. 

Grundy always had a beast mode similar to Mummy where they could hurt and wear down opposition midfielders. Weidemann isn't and never will be like that. But for all the trading and money can Grundy do all that again. Because it was taxing on his body as well.

Further you are selling Sam short. He is developing a style that is pretty good and as part of a ruck duo can work well enough for us.

But most importantly and something you "Grundy is God" believers conveniently neglect to highlight is that Sam is on our books already so you are not comparing Grundy to just Sam Weidemann but Weidemann AND a first round pick. And both for less money.

So Hannibal Inc. you should keep it in perspective.

3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Oh yeah, Disco Turner and his 7 possessions a game is really going to be the answer to replacing Salem who was All Australian worthy last year, our best player to quarter time in the grand final and our calmest ball user down back.

Don’t get me wrong, Turner’s a player, we might have to try 4 talls next year to give him more time. But speed, skill and run and carry are still the biggest priority. Salem played like a guy who had a seriousness injury then got groin soreness due to overuse after a long lay off. Every indication is he should bounce back next year.

I hope he does bounce back. For mine though he has been mostly disappointing since his return to the side. We certainly lost more games than won with him playing and he kept Bowie out of the side.  "every indication". Not so sure. I am worried about his hunger for the contest. I don't think it was where it should be.

I am of the belief if we don't orchestrate change it's a quick slide back down to mediocrity. 

I am also of the view that we are being dangerously lazy thinking we will be back up the top with a couple of tinkers. Adding Grundy for instance. It's a brutal competition and there are signs we are reasonably happy with ourselves. On present form we are over-rated and ended as high as we did on early season form that was a couple of levels below Finals footy. If we keep thinking this way we are in for a rude shock. The team, the whole footy department needs change, fresh players and thinking.

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

 You made a bold assertion that is simply not true. 

 

Go back to your Tarot cards and make up more stuff

A little rude Jnrmac, but maybe thats your style. Shoot 'em down, get personal. No worries.

1 hour ago, Hannibal Inc. said:

Aaron Sandilands played until he was 36.  He was still playing good footy at 32, but injuries effected his final years.

Dean Cox played until he was 33.

Shane Mumford played until he was 35.  Last good year 33.

Paddy Ryder played until he was 34 and looked like he could go again.

Todd Goldstein is playing good football at 34.  And is going again.

Ben McEvoy played until he was 33.  Last good year 32.

My point ?

Not many ruckman are AA at 24 like Cox and Gawn.  Most start playing their best footy from 25 onwards.  And plenty can be important contributors well into their 30s.

Grundy plays all of next year as a 29 year old.  For me that doesn't put him near the back end of his career, it puts him smack bang in the middle for a ruckman.  How many rucks reach their peak before the age of 26 ?  More-so 28+.

Our premiership window should be at least the next 4 years.  At the end of this period Grundy will be 32 and should still have some years left.  Subject to injury he should play at least 100 games.

You may not think Grundy will work, or you may wonder how it will work, but if he's injury free his age for our list demographic is not only fine, it's perfect.  The only proviso is his injury status.

So dismiss Grundy as a good trade target all you want - no problem - but stop using his age as an issue. 

From an age perspective, he's in the "window" at the exact time we are.

So Sam Weidemann is just coming into that period of peak ability. He is in good shape and in my stupid little head the salary and picks we have to pay Grundy doesn't translate to much more productive output onfield. I don't get it.

10 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Liked all of what you said just a little worried about delivery through and around the middle by hand and foot.

Agree. Trac, Oliver, Viney, Harmes. Even Sparrow and Brayshaw. Not one of these players at the moment are elite ball users. The two teams that adopted our game plan in Swans and Collingwood use the ball better than us. Pendlebury as the pivot in the middle of the ground is elite. Swans are more prepared to keep movement on the ball when required. Both teams are high intensity, high pressure and create opportunities through turnover. Similar to the last 3 premiership winners in Melbourne, Richmond and Dogs.

Interesting that dogs did it without a ruck and a lack of kpp's. Richmond with a mosquito fleet of runners who spread so well on turnover and Martin as their Pivot and elite distributor.

Clarry could be our distributor but we seem to use him closer to the contest. As he ages we should be looking at Pendles and Martin and we should be using Clarry in a similar way. 

Surely it's a big mistake to think kicking down the line to Max and Grundy  and Ben Brown and TMac is worth pursuing as a game plan. We should be evolving, getting youth and energy back into the side, and working on fine tuning chaos ball as that is the way now. Improve our forward line. Build the team around Kossie, not Max. As fantastic as he is our Max advantage needs to be downsized as Max ages.

32 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Max was injured for the second half of the year.

Kinda debunks your theory.

I would have thought it re-inforces my theory.  What are we doing playing an injured bloke for half a year? Same with Salem. If they're injured don't play them and make new plans. Catering to injured players isn't a successful game plan. How can you put that up as an excuse?

This is a mistake. Paying overs to get in an old injured hack to re-inforce a game plan that is old and been trashed. Kick it down the line. We shouldn't be doubling down on the "Max is the best ruck in the league" game plan. If we want to reduce the reliance on Max to be our game winner, change the game plan. 

I reckon there are 3 or 4 players from the Casey side who would immediately make our AFL side better.

Turner. Played mostly on a small for Southport and pretty much towelled him up. Is young, reads the play well and hits targets coming out. Would replace Hibbo with him and let Hibbo get himself ready for the second half of the year, to see if he can get back in the side. The other alternative is Salem. I personally (knowing that many would disagree, and understandably so) would look to trade Salem. If the return and money saving is worth it . Otherwise tell him he needs to do a lot of work berfore and during pre-season because at this stage he's not best 22. 

Woewodin. Plays wing. Is super strong and fit and will improve if he commits over the off season. Takes JJ's role which is a bit sad but I think JJ needs to look at developing a secondary role as he is ok as a winger but isn't quick enough and hasn't really made the wing his spot, never to lose. Maybe a half back flank but they are already taken, JJ's other option is to work on leg speed.

JVR. This is pretty obvious, he is a unique talent and with a further pre-season, fitter, stronger and with maybe 5 more kilos on his impressive frame, should be starting 22

Weidemann. Has done everything asked of him, has had a player who he can naturally replace,  (admittedly as a slight downgrade) a player leaving, and in the last third of the VFL season has finally excelled in a position. He has obviously taken longer to develop to the point where many think he won't make it but give him the position, tell him he's considered top 22 and tell the Pies to get stuffed.

Just a further point on why we are chasing Grundy. We are being soft on Max. It's the wrong call because Max wants an easier life. Max has been and will always be, a champion for Melbourne FC and also the AFL but he liked the idea of easing Jacko into the role and he would go forward. This hasn't worked this year. It did last year. And more importantly getting Grundy reinforces a game plan that has been trashed this year. Kicking down the line. Stagnant movement. it's old, Goodwin needs a new game plan not bring in a bloke that re-inforces an old one that isn't working.

Get to those blokes and tell them if they do the work they're in and we will be a better side next year. 

What West Coast players would you guys like. I know Allen has been mentioned, but think outside the full forward box and look at their list.

They would have to want to, but boy oh boy they could be playing out their careers in a bottom 4 side as opposed to coming to a finals club. It must be attractive to a few of them. I haven't watched them at all this year so don't have a clue.

That Josh Kennedy goes alright. But seriously folks. 

On 3/8/2022 at 1:25 PM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I don't want Collingwood, Essendon or Carlton winning. Why? Because they're the only ones ahead of us on the ladder of "Total Premierships Won".

Not that I need a reason to include Collingwood on that list.

My soft spot is St Kilda. 

Looks like you didn't rate them much higher than me La dvc. 

Just a couple of points.

1. Jackson is going home to be a part of his family and build his life in Perth. His family are into Fremantle. As a consequence, there is very little chance of him going to West Coast. The only reason West Coast get involved and we keep that negotiation open is to try and secure a better deal. Those two teams hate each other.

2. The Grundy negotiations involve two factors, how much salary Collingwood will pay and draft picks. So if they pay $400,000 per year of his ongoing salary and we take up $600,000, then we would have to offer up a pick around 10. If it's only $200,000  Collingwood pay and we carry the rest (god forbid) then theres a point where they should be giving us a pick.

Whats the equilibrium???? For me I don't really want to pay much more than about $500,000 a year for Grundy and he's worth about pick 25-30. 

I don't think that will satisfy Collingwood and I hope we don't get shafted. I don't like the deal. Leave them in a world of pain.

29 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

Not a thread about tyres.

Lots of doom and gloom on here but personally I think our season was far from a waste or a disgrace. 

Backing up from a flag to win 10 on the trott at the front end (when people were hoping we'd be drunk on bathwater) and then to finish 2nd is a very decent result. Clarry winning gongs for fun, and the AA side littered with Dees. VFL side as dominant as any that I can recall. 

If we had had a season like the doggies or tigers I would be carrying on like alot of the hand wringers on here. Flags don't grow on trees and you don't get a armchair ride to a dynasty just beacuse youn win one- some fair weather supporters need to realise this and get behind the boys for next year. 

Don't worry I'm sure we'll all be back next year. But to call people "on here" hand wringers and fair weather supporters is ridiculous considering the obvious issues with the team and the disappointing coaching efforts to try and address those issues. 

To win 6 of our last 14 games for the year is disappointing.

Anyway we're past the "loading" phase of club life. We're up to the "dumping" phase

Goodwin has got us back to 2nd on the H & A ladder and (if we beat Brisbane) to a prelim in 2022 so it's a pretty successful year but you don't need to be a brain surgeon to see the faultlines running through our team and it's almost impossible to see us beating the last two opponents to win the thing this year.

We are probably the 4th best team in it.

So he mose well keep loyal to these players till we go out but if we lose to Brisbane all rain and hail and cataclysmic unrest will pour forth in the name of CHANGE

So, ah, good luck guys.

1 hour ago, Kozzie4PM said:

I've been to manuka a couple of times and it's a great little ground. It would be perfect if there were 7k diehard giants fans to give it some atmosphere. There's generally 500 Melbourne supporters, 500 giants and the rest are neutral meaning it's kind of a weird atmosphere. You feel like you're in the minority in actually caring about the game. 

I agree. I was there for 4 days and with all the museums, a game of golf and the footy it was a good trip. I electric scootered to the game. They get snow in the middle of winter though. 

I don't think a pick around 14 can be considered enough, no matter what it's packaged with.

I would have thought he is worth conservatively, a pick in the top 5 or maybe up to 7 at worst and then a back of first round pick as well ie 16-20. But pick 14 as the best they're offering is a disaster for us and should not be entertained.

35 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

1st round pick around 14 plus perhaps what they get for Lobb (early 2nd rounder?) Would like Meek in the deal too

Some will scream that it's not enough. It'll never be enough. But that's what is realistic given what they have.

I'd actually ask for their future 1st rather than this year's. Take the gamble Freo might slide in 2023

I'm screaming!!!!

I heard Brisbane will need points to bring in young father/son prospects Ashcroft and one other (forget who he is).

Not sure who we would be interested in but they will need to trade for points and worth looking at.