Machsy

Looking at trade targets, I'd be targeting a 3rd round pick for Leroy Jetta, Daniel Cross or Harry Cunningham.

None will set the world on fire, but have mature bodies, experience and can fill a role until young players have developed to fill it.

I know Jetta & Cunningham seem lacklustre, but I don't think too many were impressed by the idea of Monfries at Port either, and that's been a win for them.

I think part of the problem is that the only clubs that seem to have decent talent surplus to requirements are GWS and GC, but they won't want picks, unless there is exceptional talent involved.

Like us, they'll want mature players.

Top end young talent infusions have been scarce, so other clubs are reluctant to let it go to roll the dice in the draft.

My issue is that you, satyriconhome, are completely misrepresenting the past for the purposes of your argument.

The past about Morton and Cook, which YOU brought up.

That is all.

I don't like the idea of a pick that must be on-traded.

Generally teams are reluctant to deal a player unless there is a reason to move him on, but are much more willing to give up an as yet nameless and faceless draft pick.

It's simply difficult to get reasonable value when dealing for established players.

If all we get are draft picks in return, or draft picks & rodan-type players, what is the point?

Just give us a mid-1st round pick, I say.

Or pick 1. I won't complain.

Zac Jones named MVP for Victoria Country. He's had a meteoric rise through the championships. Well done.

Although he missed out on selection at the business end of the championship, it looks like Billy Stretch is set for better things in 2014.

Brenton Phillips gave Stretch some brief but good wraps on SEN yesterday.

There's a podcast, but it's only about 30 secs of a 15 minute interview.

Said Billy has all the attributes of his father, who BP played against.

Really has the desire to go with the skills. Will play for SA next year.

Also should grow another couple of inches.

(That is, SA U/18 coach Brenton Phillips)

I'll just put two examples, when we got Morton at 4 we received congratulations from everybody else, Cook was U18 AA and was expected to go top 10.............every club has poor choices......why do you think suddenly mature age recruits are being picked up........less of a chance of failure

Your efforts to defend the virtue of all aspects of the club are noble, but simply embarrassing when you go to these lengths.

I think you'd be better off accepting that the club has made mistakes, many and often.

Otherwise we wouldn't be anchored to the bottom of the ladder for 7 years.

Morton was a consensus top 5 pick. Probably top 3.

But West Coast made the "what are they thinking?" pick, seemingly intent on going for a local kid at 3, but having history with the Morton family. Masten was viewed as an inferior choice at that stage.

Did they know something we didn't? That we now consider to have been unforeseeable?

After their first season or 2, we were rubbing our hands together with glee.

Today, I know who we'd all choose, out of the 2.

Cook was never touted as top 10.

Barely top 20.

I expected him to go around 25 and was shocked to hear his name called.

All I could fathom was that Barry had his mind set on a KPP and didn't expect both of Lynch and Gorringe to be gone, with only Prestia and Caddy to be mids we would ignore our pressing needs for.

I gave BP the benefit of the doubt at the time, seeing as on paper Cook made a bit of sense.

Somehow attained AA CHF status. Kicked goals, had nice skills, good sized frame to build on.

Like a slower Jack Watts, and it was only a matter of months before Watts was due to become the game's dominant silky tall forward.

I honestly believe the majority of recruiters would have had a quiet chuckle at our choice on the day.

In retrospect, I can only view it as stubbornly picking for needs in spite of where they sat within the talent available.

That and BP's track record for largely ignoring character and desire when assessing a draft pick.

Defend the club if you must, satyriconhome, but don't revise history.

Will we be looking for another ruckman?

I'm told Dawson Simpson is likely to be looking for a new home.

206cm ruckman.

Whether he deserves a spot on the list is debatable, but what should never be in question are his prospects as a small forward.

To be an AFL small forward you'd ideally need speed, agility, athleticism, immaculate skills, goal sense, good timing, reading of the play and footy smarts.

Nicholson has the bare minimum of these attributes.

No way in hell.

Depends.

To play for the team you supported as a kid in your hometown is a strong pull.

I'm not sure I'd want to trade for him.

GWS would want too much.

And I don't think they'd let him go through the PSD because he wants away.

GWS would make an example of him like GC did with Caddy.

They'd use it as an opportunity to send a message that "you can leave, but it won't be easy and it'll cost the team you go to more than they want to pay."

Love to hear someone ask him if he is injured.

His speed has diminished as he has bulked up and missed chunks of preseason.

It's happened to many a player, then suddenly one year they regain all their pace & look a million bucks.

It's part of developing a mature AFL body.

Surely GWS has the cap space to match any proposal we make, and will have a PSD pick before us?

Surprised Sheed hasn't been rated higher to this point.

Top 5 pick for mine.

Jamar is worthless at the trade table.

If we wanted Tay Adams, GWS would be asking for Frawley, Garland or Howe.

No chance.

I also thought for a player his size (man-child) he really should be dominating against his much lighter opponents.

Instead he was just another player.

Agree. Was seriously underwhelmed with Dunstan.

I think he'll be lucky to be a poor man's Dustin Martin.

More like a Tapscott.

My comments had nothing to do with Kelly's elite endurance. In fact, I didn't refer to it. It was just his class, reading of the play and in particular his hands, the guy doesn't fumble. Watch the game again, notice how many people fumble and study Kelly. He just moves with balance like a thoroughbred. Scully was a running machine, but I doubt anyone ever referred to his "class".

Kelly reminds me a lot of Bastinac.

Horlin-Smith would be good to get, but I'm reliably told he is happy to stay put.

I am not so certain about that. I think that RFAs can be traded without the need for the former team to fit them under the cap.

I would do a trade if I was Hawthorn. I would have done it if I was St Kilda last year too.

You'll have to talk GWS into giving up something when they don't have to.

Can't figure out why they would.

And that would lead to some very messy dealings, depending on how it works.

What about this scenario?

GWS makes offer to Buddy.

Hawthorn "match" offer, since he is restricted.

With your theory, the Hawks don't sign Buddy, but intend to trade him to GWS.

GWS don't want to give up what Hawks want in a trade.

Stalemate.

What then?

Hawks over the cap having matched a deal they can't possibly fulfil under cap rules?

I don't take Roos not denying interest as a positive.

Even if he knows he has no intention of taking the job, I'm sure he'd enjoy the attention, the courting and then inside info he might glean by being involved in the race.

I do think he will take the job though, after we have a board and a GMFO in place, and a priority pick has been confirmed.

Tay Adams is very keen to come back close to Geelong, but we'd have to offer a lot more than Jamar.

I think our 2nd round pick might get it done, but other teams will offer more.

I recall that Butcher was touted as a number one draft pick a few years ago and drifted quite a bit come draft day.

If he's really the stand out number one pick and we can get him at 2 or 3 depending on where we finish them I think we should take him, if he's not that clearly the best then we need a good quality mid.

He's not a number 1 pick for mine, but in a weak draft like this, anything could happen.

The number 1 pick will go to Hawthorn for Franklin

He will sign with GWS,, Hawthorn will match the offer and then they will do that trade

you herd it here first

Heard what?

Hawthorn won't be able to match it.

Not sure if Franklin will be restricted or not, but even if he is, Hawthorn can only match it if it fits within their salary cap, which the offer from GWS won't.

Honestly, I'm all for best available, but what makes anyone think that's Boyd?

He's huge, he's good, but he's not a number 1 pick.

I'd have said the same about Josh Kennedy, Jack Darling, Quinten Lynch and Dean Cox/Naitanui, but it worked for West Coast last year.

Albeit unorthodox.

Always always always draft best available players with early picks.

We all know what happens when we draft for needs *cough* Molan *cough*.

Except in a year when there is 1 talented big, and a bevy of gun mids?

There are always exceptions to rules.

This is one of those times.

As for Molan, that wasn't just choosing for needs instead of best available.

It was choosing for needs in spite of the available talent to fit the need being significantly less than what was available.

At pick 2 in a midfielder's draft, this would not be the case.