Bedraggled Dee

I would love to know what if any evidence exists to establish offences for Hird, the Doc and others during the 2012 regime. It will be a travesty if the players cop a ban and Hird etc walk away. I am encouraged by McDevits comments about the lack of concern for player welfare in 2012. Hopefully sufficient evidence exists for sanctions against the club, the coaches and medical staff. This may be the reason the AFL's sanctions were relatively light last year, they are keeping the powder dry. This may also be a very good explanation for the Federal Court case being initiated by Hird and the Club rather than the players in that they are well aware of what is likely to follow sanctions of the players. I have always doubted that the players were not ASADA's end game here. Dank is gone and will never work in sport again and I suspect that they may be a few others following the handing down of bans to the players.

Its all good news from my perspective. The players guilt or otherwise will be determined by a tribunal of the right people based on the evidence. If the players get of in this circumstance it will be becuase insufficient evidence exists to demonstrate to the comfortable satisfaction that they took or intended to take banned substances not because the evidence cannot be used. A not guilty verdict will clear their name unlike the Hird/Little approach. I suspect that ASADA patience with the players and the club is wearing thin but I doubt not responding to the show cause notices will affect the final outcome or penalties. If guilty the player are likely to get a deal from ASADA but I doubt it will be as generous as the NFL deal. If Hird gets a show cause then no leniency will be shown. I suspect however he won't receive one and will walk away scott free, a million dollars richer and with a fancy business degree. The only punishment he has received to date is damage to his name and reputation.

Best worst kisck in the competition I think was the phrase. Not a bad move. I suspect there was more in this than we know he was playing okay in defence for us but got fropped and never got back in. Attitude issues?? Good luck to him he did the job for us and I wish him well.

I think Strauss is coping a bum rap here. He never cemented a place but just prior to breaking a leg he was begining to show what he could deliver. I thought he played some excellent games off half back that year and was in the top 10 players in those games. He never recovered from what was a terrible break. Have a look at the output from Brown after Wheelan snapped his leg he was never the same. Blease obvioulsy has some work ethic issues because numerous coaches have said the same but Strauss was never referred to in that vein. Hopefully both boys can make a mark somewhere else. I think we will cut one more this year, Tappy or Evans most likely but Fitzy and possibly Trenners are in the mix. They are probably waiting to see what Trenners wants to do and what the medical opinion is before making a call. I think Georgiou will hang on as a rookie to add some depth, Jetta will get a gig on the senior list.

Make no mistake, Chunk may not have made the AA team but his stats are right up there with the elite of the competition. IMO he is easily in the top 15-20 midfielders in the comp and plenty of clubs will want him. He will get offers and he will have to make the decision to stay for either less money or less chance of success. I think he will make that call but then I thought the same about Chip.

I think Chunk will stay but the pressures on him to acheive success before retiring and financial pressures to maximise income before retiing is the same as they were for Chip. He will field plenty fo offers from other clubs and will enevitably be placed in the position to have to give one or both of the above up to stay a Demon. Garland is also up next year and will also be courted by plenty of clubs. Given our recoird on retaining FA players we should expect at least 1 to walk.

Bugger bugger bugger

Ash, I know how I felt over the last half dozen years of tragedy and tribulations at the Dees. I know Bombers supporters who are indignant, angry and devastated all at the same time. I feel for the players and I feel for the supporters but I hold the club and its officials in utter contempt regarding their response to this matter. Do I think Essendon used TB4 on the players, yep. Do I think Dank was fully aware of TB4's status probably not, I think he was using the compunding pharmacy to edge around the S4 rules. Did anyone at Essendon (including Dank) intend to use a substance on the banned list, highly unlikely but I belive the club intended to go to the very edge of what is legal without appropriate governance or risk mitigation. From what could be deduced from Interim report and knowing what I do about investigative procedures I think Essendon is knackered. Much of the evidence will be phyical evidence of phone records and documentation, there will obviously be some circumstantial evidence about what hapened to the TB4 after Dank got it but if he had evidence proving is was destroyed then surely he would provide it. There is no reason not to. Ash, Keep your head up mate it will end and diminish and a once great club will rise again. I truely believe that becuase if i didn't what is the point of following the Dees.

Ash, I think your assumption that the majority on here would like to see the players hung drawn and quartered is incorrect. There is/was significant sympathy for the players position but that has been erroded somewaht due to the intransigent and letigious nature of the players, administrators and the club. You are correct regarding the standard of proof but what many at the Bombers fail to grasp is that ASADA only need need to esblish proofs for what is in effect an absolute offence. Ie, they only need to prove to the reasonable satisfaction that the act occurred or was attempted. It does not need to establish that anyone indended to do anything illegal. The response of the Bombers is also contradictory. "we definately did not take anything illegal but we have no or incomplete records of what players took what and when" We will be in very good position when the truth comes out but we will spend millions on legal action to prevent eveidence being presented" "I take full responsibility for everything that happened in the football deptment except for the things that occured wihout my knowlegde, without proper governance and may or may not have been illegal". The response by Essendon is flawed and to this point a complete failiure in terms of avoiding any sanctions, resolving the issues and showing that nothing illegal was done. It could be argued that regardless of the outcome from here the club due to its actions will forever remain tainted by this issue. In my opinion if Evans was still in charge, the matter would be finalised, you would have a full list going forward into next season free from any of this and the club the comp and the media could move on. This will drag on now well into next season and much longer if Hird remains as coach I doubt the outcome will be any better than if Evans was allowed to see things through.

There is no doubt that as we acheive success mor eplayers will want to come to the Dees. We were lucky with the recruits in Roos first year. This year has not been what we wanted but still no disaster. I rate Lumumba and Garlett is exactly the type of small forward we need. Get in the Premiership window and we will have our pick and hopefull Chip is siting at the bottom half of the ladder wishing he had stayed.

I have always thought the draft is a lottery hence the stupidity of rating the extra draft pick a above culture (Tanking) If we get one of the 2 and 3 picks right I will be very happy

Poor bloke, shocking news for him and the club. Bang goes another early drfat pick who should be a midfield stalwart. The young fella must be devastated. I hope the club does everything possible to look after him regardless of the outcome for his foot.

I agree we have done well, especially with Vince but looking at that list we are well behind on the deal. If you think a speculative youngster with pick 3 equates to an experienced big bodied proven KPP in his prime you are wrong. Any youngster we get this year is a couple of years away from being what we need right now. It is hard to predict how it will work out but IMO long term there will be drift from the lower placed clubs to the successful ones. It wont be all one wany but overall it will be harder for clubs to climb from the bottom. I doubt we will ever see a buddy come to a club in Melbournes current situation.

Its very cult like at Essendrug. Robinson has shown himself to be the the worst journalist amonst a pack of bad journo's through out this drama. The bloke canot separte himself from his personal loyalties and beliefs and report accurtately and is a reasoned manner. He is entertaining in that he is sooooo bad but not somewhere to obtain information from. Hird should be cut loose this morning and hopefully Little and his cronies shortly after in a spill of the board. Good riddance and hope I never hear from them in AFL circles again. The damage Hird has done to this game in astounding in such a short time. His playing record pales into insignificnace in comparison. As much as people dislike the AFL, in my view the worst thing they have done was to be so soft on Essesndon. Hopefully ASADA ends up serving infractions to the admistrators including Hird and the board and Workcover pursues the responsible individuals and the club.

Why was the AFL decision on assitance wrong. 1. In 12 months we have lost our key tall forward and key tall back, both leaders at the club and both in the top 8-10 players at the club. Take out Roughead and Lake from Hawthorn and it would have a big effect let alone on ide without a decent midfield. 2. We have less experience in the list than just about everyone else in the comp 3. Our backline depth is questionable without chip 4. We have 4 AFL standard midfielders (Jones, Cross, Tyson and Vince), and a couple of youndsters who may make it 5. We dont have a forward line other than Dawes and an untried youngster 6. One decent ruckman due to retire in a year or so (Hopefully Gawn comes on). 6. There is no one banging the door down in the Magoos coming through. This list cannot and will not be fixed this draft/trade period. We are not in the position to attract players without paying overs and are not in the financial position to do that. That also ensures that existing players have to accept less and then get better offers elsewhere. The club is already negotiating with Chunk but he and Garland are out of contract and eligble as RFA's and the end of next year. The same pressures will be on them as was on Chip and given recent history at least or one or both will walk. Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood, hell eveyone will be banging Chunks door down. he is statistically A grade and in his prime. The AFL continues its conservative approach and is influenced by other clubs in an attempt to placate the equalisation tax but in the process will condem us to years in the dulldrums.

You have to like the score of Natalie and her mates at the social litigator. They have been bang on with pretty much everything. Her take on Hirds appeal is again a well reasoned and argued article. I cant see how he can win at appeal, not sure what his end game is other than to sue the backside of the AFL and maybe Demitriou. Once he is sacked then he has no standing to the majority of his appeal and it is doomed. I doubt that ASADA will proceed untill his appeal is heard despite the appeal IMO being almost frivolous. ASADA cant risk getting half way through the process and having the evidejnce it is using declared illegal by the full bench. We need to identify Hirds legal team and ensure they are published so none of us never make the mistake of wasting our hard earned cash using them. I would not get them to do a conveyance for me.

So if I have this right 1. Essendrug have decided not to appeal a watertight Federal court ruling (first smart thing Little has done) 2. Hird decides no way, the world is wrong I am right, this is now a matter of principle I wish to continue attempting to climb everest without a rope. 3. The players (who this farcical soap opera was allegedly all about) try to talk Hird from committing suicide and let them finalise the matter and get on with their lives. 4. Hird decides no way, the players dont know whats good for them I will continue in the hope that when I fall a mattress truck happens to driving by. 5. Essendrug will now cut loose the final safety restraint from Hird and sack him (second smart thing Little has done) 6. Oustanding matter to follow will be the removal of Little and his supporters from the Board. My question to the legal fraternity is, if the Club and players go to ASADA and request SCN's and wish to proceed and Hird decides to cointinue the fight and lodge an appeal, Can ASADA proceed given Middleton has already ruled that the players and obviously the club are party to the matter heard by the Federal Court? Would Hird then not be acting in opposition to the players he always stated were the very reason for his intransigence?. From the very begining of this the histroical connection between Hird and Charter and the supplements industry going back to his playing days is interesting. For me there are some unanswered question regarding the use of performance enhancing substances from the 90's by AFL aplayers (Note I include Woey's brownlow year in this who was also associated to Charter). Could this have formed Hirds perception of drugs in sport and whether supplements should be banned. Comments by Dank suggest he is of the opinion that the WADA code and banned lists are ridculous. It was interesting hearing the comments recently from Dank and seeing him turn up at the Federal Court. If I was a betting man I would put a few bob on Hird being to some degree in denial over Dank and has alleged crimninallity and Hirds position on this matter being partly based on information and advice from Dank and others that the WADA code and ASADA ban way to many substances that should not be banned. Hird and Dank are obviously of the opinion that Essendon were just catching up to others in the AFL regarding the use of supplements. This may be the context in which Hird is making these absurd decisions. There is way more to this behind the scenes to play out yet.

Saw Sheedy on tele the other day, he still makes absolutely no sense when he speaks. Its not hard to see who the whole club ended up nutty

Copy of an email discussion with a rabid bomber fan. I suggested that my prefered outcome was that evidence was produced that proved the players took nothing illegal and we all got back to playing footy. The following was the response Sadly those records you talk about do exist, they have been submitted to ASADA however the AFL requested that they be removed from the interim report as it didn’t suit their purpose of ‘bringing the game into disrepute’. The boys have been told (by EFC, ASADA investigators and AFLPA) that they weren’t administered banned substances, they know every substance that they used, they have records for it all. Dank confirmed twice to the ACC (under their rules) that no TB4 was used at Essendon. Do think the media would publish this? NO it doesn’t suit their agenda. All the info is there in the Fed Court submissions. So why do we have SCN’s – I have NFI but KPI’s for ASADA keep coming up. This person who is not stupid honestly believes that ASADA are pursuing Essendon in opposition to the available evidence to ensure they meet there key performance indicators???????? Its absurdly fascinating that people are reacting this way.

I hope Essendon show some decency when dealing with Ryder. This poor bloke and his family have suffered from this affair and that has been exacerbated by Essendons letigious and combative strategy since Evans was dumped. Wilson was correct a few weeks ago (nearly choked writing that) in that the club has an opportunity now to regain some lost ground and make the moral and decent decision to work with Paddy. Dragging him through the courts does nothing except underline what we all knew from the start, this was never about the players and hopefully these young men and there families will wake from the spell and begin to look after themselves.

Surely now the Essendon power brokers with common sence now need to act. Little should be removed immediately, Hird sacked and the board replaced and the AFL and ASADA engaged to navigate a path out of this mess. The club will be bankrupt if Little and Hird continue. Bomber Thompson should pay his fine and sign on as the senior coach The players need to obtain some truely indendant legal advice and take the best action to salvage their careers and should consider legal action against this club for damages and losses incurred. If Essendon cant make this happen themselves then the AFL and the other clubs need to step in and make it happen.

Bang!!!!!!! Right between the eyes

Ha ha, if the complaint was from the Essendon camp, huge own goal. Vlad and the AFL will stand up and tap the mat and cop the penalty and point to what they have done subsequently as mitgating circumstances. Guilt for the AFL is more guilt for the Bummers.

The two faced attitude of Essendon staggers me. How dare they come out and bad mouth the ex head of ASADA, imagine if ASADA had bad mouthed Hirds evidence. Not sure of her background but not many people other than cops and crooks spend much time in the witness box and not everyone in good at it. That odes not mean her evidence was incorrect or poor. I will say it again the Club is morally bankrupt and deserves our contempt.

Ha ha ha ha ha We will be basking in those re-runs over the summer when a fix is needed. Cant wait to have one a week to watch that will cover most of the off season