nutbean

Maybe look at their heights and builds and check out the progress of similarly proportioned draftees (Gumbleton, Butcher, Hansen).

Y'know, just for argument's sake.

Shout at a brick wall - it will do you as much good.

Despite AFL history littered with examples of what you are saying, to the extent that any commentator worth his salt repeats the same old adage - "big blokes generally take longer to come on", this message will still not get through.

Save your fingers.

heard a guy at uni tell people that he walks scullys dog with his dog, and that the dog reckons he's staying. guess thats good news

At least get your story straight - the dog ate Scully's homework. The dog pooped out the homework and the homework was a rather soiled piece of paper - Bails had kept Scully in after school and had made him write out lines - 100 times - I will not sign with GWS, I will not sign with GWS....That one piece of poop paper with lines on it in my mind is proof guaranteed that he aint going anywhere.

I'm not sure why there's such angst towards the Freakster. You may not agree with his views, but it's quite reasonable to discuss drafts even if it's too early to draw definitive conclusions.

Therein lies the problem - measured opinions on 2008 are fine but definite conclusions do my head in.

Has Watts been quick to progress - not really.

Has Watts shown improvement - steady but not stunning

Has Watts shown glimpses of his talent - yes

Will Watts be a superstar no 1 pick - ask me again when he hits 23

Would I take Hurley/NicNat before Watts - at the time Watts was considered the prize no 1 pick. No - but ask me again when they are all 23.

How about: signs contract, gets us to a Grand Final, Takes a mark 5 meters out as the siren goes with us down by 5pts and is abducted by aliens before he can take the kick.

That would be annoying too.

Nah - about to take the kick when he is infused with the spirit of Rhino Richards ( the player not the poster) has a brain fade and plays on - game over.

That would be annoying.

or misses from 65 metres out on the boundary by shaving the inside of the post prompting at least 100 demonlanders to crucify him and say - " I told you he couldnt kick - we should have taken Dustin Martin"

That would be realllyyy annoying.

Maybe Dustin Fletcher? A likely young colt from Essendon. Could have another 10 years in him. Definitely a Peter Pan.

Should have taken Dusty Springfield

I've noticed a trend with established players who have left to the CGS. These players fall into one of 3 categories:

1- Reaching the end of the career and wanting to financially capitalise on their remaining years in the game and prolong their career (Bock, Fraser)

2- Unhappy at current club, feeling on the outer or generally looking for a change of scenery (Brown who was filthy at Hawthorn for trying to trade him, Brennan etc)

3- Achieved everything there is to achieve in football and have lost a bit of passion and interest so decided to fatten up their bank balance (Ablett spent the week attending parties with his GF instead of getting himself right for the weekend. Tell me that isn't someone who has lost a bit of interest?)

To me Scully does not fit into any of the above 3 categories. At the end of the day individuals go into a career in football to achieve team success. Money and lifestyle perks definitely help, but nobody wants to get smashed every week and potentially miss out on a premiership for the sake of more money. At least not the motivated ones like Scully.

My biggest joy yesterday came from reading Trengove say what a great club Melbourne is. I simply can't see a reason beyond pure greed why Scully would leave.

Agreed - besides Ablett and maybe Rischetelli I also look at GC's recruits and they all sort of fit into a good "b" class category - those who were offered a sum that they could never in their careers achieve at their present club - they are prepared to accept going for a number of years to a development club purely based on being set up for a life that couldnt be achieved otherwise. Each one of the recruited GC players except Ablett were aware that they are well down the pecking order at their club.

The players that would concern me as GWS targets ( unless they are prepared to make a Scully or Trengove next year their marquee signing aka Ablett - a huge mistake in my opinion) are the mid tier players - maybe Morton, maybe Sylvia. even maybe a Bail - the likes of those players.

Any who - they are my thoughts on a subject I just cant stop posting on

Not to mention the signing of Jack Viney which seems to be some sort of Footy God blessing .

I'm tipping that after 2 seasons if Jack Viney hasnt made it you will be asking why on earth he was recruited.

You seem to be struggling with two concepts when it comes to recruiting

1. foresight

2. hindsight

Let's all say hello to Mr Hindsight !

Every commentator that talks about Jack Watts says he would have gone number one, so whether he makes it or not is a null argument.

Cale Morton went within one pick either side where wveryone thought he would.

I think the interesting one to judge the recruiters on is the bottom end draft picks, the preseason draft picks and the rookies - the wonna's, the bails, the jurrahs etc. This is where the real skill comes in - seeing something in these boys that other clubs didnt see.

I will again also re-iterate - I'm not really prepared to pass final judgment on footy talent ( especially the big blokes) until they get to 22/23.

In reality its probably both of the people who dont really know at all.

I know, I know !

I spoke to two people who believe they are in the "know" about Scully over the weekend.

One has close ties to the club and he believe Scully has signed a letter of intent with GWS - much like it is rumoured the 8 GC players did.

The other person I spoke to is an assistant coach at another club. He has close ties with SOS (who is a recruiting manager at GWS), he said that SOS told him they have not spoken to Scully and he will 100% be at Melbourne next year.

My personal view has gone from about a 10% stay 90% go at the beginning of the year to a genuine 50%-50%.

Thats all I can report.

Go Dees.

So two people in the know, know two entirely contrary positions. That means one of those people in the know doesnt really know at all. In summary - those who know, know nil and those who know they know have a nose these sort of things, really know that no may mean no or yes. Know what I mean ? no ?

All those forgiving him, are as soft in terms of discipline, as he is.

With this poor attitude we are not going to be successful anytime soon.

When are we gunna get tough?

Put in leaders that lead by example...............always!

The real sad part is that he can really play football!

I am supporter of strong discipline and I think by any standards the penalty handed to Beamer is harsh BUT I support it 100%.

When it comes to forgiving him - I saw his presser and his remorse at what he has done. I have seen his track record on behaviour and I have seen how he has led on and off the field. I forgive him.

Did he make a bad error of judgement and a mistake - yes. Does he have a poor attitude ? One mistake does not make for a poor attitude.

We did get tough and I think you will see exactly what sort of leader Beamer is and what sort of attitude he has going forward.

League Teams revealed last night that after Sunday's game the leadership group addressed the players - and specifically mentioned not going out after the game.

Time to move on but if true, does lend more weight to the thought that the right decision was made on Beamer.

As a few have said before - you didnt need a name tag saying leadership group or VC to be a leader. I think leading is in Beamers DNA and he will continue to do as he always has and I have little doubt he will redeem himself.

In - Ricky Bobbie, Maric, Strauss

Out - zip

All valid points, but i still believe talking about Dermie being Jack Watts' mentor is not the most productive excercise because IMO to take someone under your wing and mentor them requries some sort of vested interest or desire (on the mentor's behalf) for the mentoree to succeed, which we could only speculate about in dermotts case?

The vested interest is of course payment (nobody does nothing for nothing) and success ( which would also appeal to Dermies ego). The same vested interest of Ex Essendon Bailey, ex Port Mahoney, ex Bulldog West and Royal. - crave success and get paid.

You wouldnt be suggesting that Greg Williams did a half-assed job with Jobe Watson because he was a Carlton man ? You wouldnt suggest the David Schwarz who helped the Bullies forwards also fudged it ?

the whole Dermie discussion is pretty far fetched IMO, so i can see why C&B is shrugging it off.

Firstly, for it to work Dermie would have to have some sort of reason to want to be Jack Watt's mentor and IMO it would need to be more than just cash (which Im guessing he has enough of to keep him happy). For dermie to really be the mentor that people are talking about he'd need to spend alot of time with Watts, and would need to persist with him for a couple of years id say. Cant see why Dermie would bother with all that effort? He'd be asked about the process and JW's progress on every pannel that he sat on in the various TV programs, and what if Watts showed no improvement? Plus Dermie being a natural footballer doesnt equate to him being able to teach it to others

Secondly, what kind of a slap in the face would it be to the current coaching group & support staff at the club? It would be an admission that our own coaching staff arent good enough to extract the talent from a number #1 draft pick?

Thirdly, if Watts needed such a level of coaching/mentoring where the team of coaches, support staff and past players are not enough then he either doesnt have the talent we think he does, or he doesnt give a crap about footy. I think the club would be better served getting the Ox, Neita or another one of our great forwards to "mentor" him, if infact it is even requried.

Your point three - You will note that I also put my hand up for the Ox ( past player ) so that fits in nicely to point three. I really query why you would suggest Ox and Neita over Dermie - just because they played for our club ? Then Bailey shouldnt be coaching our club - we should have gone with Connolly - a Melbourne past player - keep everything in house. I suggested Ox as he was a really good CHF and a clever one.

Your point one - Whether we like nob head or not I think he was a natural footballer but by his comments you can see why his name was brought up - he does think about the game and whilst i dont agree with all he says( and he is fond of himself) I can see that he studies the game. This is why his name was brought up in the first place ( and not by people on this board) - I note that his name was brought up rather than the best CHF ever to play - Carey. I think Carey was a natural footballer who would struggle to impart his knowledge - I dont feel the same about Dermott.

Your point two - nonsense - Having an assistant coach is a slap in the face to the head coach, having a development coach is a slap in the face to head coach and assistant coaches, having a ruck coach is a slap in the face to all the coaches and having any sort of motivator speak to the players is a slap to everyone at the club that they can't motivate the players themselves. Never be afraid to own up to the fact that someone may know more than you. To get one of the great CHF's of the game to impart knowledge on his defined area of expertise to a younger player aspiring to play that position is not a slap in the face to anyone.

If we accept that we need a ruck coach to specifically educate on one position on the ground, if we accept that most clubs get a tackling coach ( usually ex rugby) to educate on one specific skill then why is it difficult to accept that a player can receive further education regarding playing centre half forward.

If we perceive that a player has some weaknesses and in Jack's case that is getting lost out on the ground why wouldnt he accept education from someone who was a great ( I acknowledge the game has changed but Dermie is still a keen student of the game and would be able to adapt what he knows about forward play to the current game.)

Can I ask - was it a slap in face to Mick Malthouse that Brian Taylor was brought in to help Travis Cloke with his kicking ?

ok then since you clearly know the ins and outs of this discussion tell me exactly what is involved in a mentoring role, does Dermie put on the boots or what, do they have a few rounds in the ring?

load of shyte

Watts is the only one who can make Watts work

Centre Half Forward - the role he is being groomed for - is acknowledged as the hardest position on the ground to play. To get insight on positioning, running, timing of leads, how far to lead up and back - from one of the greats of the game is just adding some extra education into him - there is consensus from most that JW at times looks very lost. As an alternative I also wouldnt mind a certain ex player who wore the no 5 to offer his services. What is being suggested here is not revolutionary and has been done many times before. Interestingly that whilst mid,forwards and backs have a generic coach, the ruck coach is specialist to that position and always a ruckman. I can see benefits in having a champion key position forward teaching not only Watts but Cook as well ( and Dunn)

What happened to the Casey page from this Site?

Is there something to read from this disappearence?

Yes - the casey page has signed with GWS

I'm super confident that I can't stop posting on this subject.

Works well in Union where the referee can call the ball back if the flow of play does not advantage the team. Works shockingly in the AFL without.

I am not advocating the call back after 30 seconds - but it is obvious in so many cases after so little time - a second after calling advantage play on, that there was no advantage at all. It should almost be like the bad centre bounce rule - a second after deciding the bounce is dodgy - a recall.

I mentioned what about who?

Mentoring pfffft just sit down and have a nice chat with Derm and I'm sure he'll be as hard as nails and kicking bags in no time, what a joke

Apologies - it was roost it who made the malthouse comment - not you.

I still stand by the fact that if we are trying to develop JW as a CHF having Dermott mentor him on the niceties of the position would be a good thing. We have ruck coach, forward coach, midfield coach - to have one of the games great CHF's coach Jack could only help his development. ( and yes, he is a nob - but a fantastic footballer)

The issue is the split second advantage decision - did he play on and take advantage or not - some of the calls have been horrific

I think that the AFL could learn a thing or two from rubgy union - when a free kick is paid - the hand is raised for a maximum of 3-4 seconds ( not the 15-20 seconds that union uses) when advantage is being taken - if there is no advantage then the free kick is brought back.

I have no problem with advantage being taken and the advatage kick being wayward and then a turnover - i have a huge problem with advantage being paid when a tram mate picks up the ball and takes one half hearted step and the umpire calls play on when there was no real advantage. The new interpretation has highlighted this.

what's he going to teach him? how to perm his hair and just be a tossbag in general

One of the great influential forwards to play the game - smart footballer. As you mentioned about Malthouse - anyone who cant see that doesnt have a clue.

I seriously cannot wait for how satisfying it will be in 2 years time, bringing up all these threads.

And once Watts breaks out, and becomes twice the player Hurley is, the guys who payed him out endlessly will say they've learnt their lesson, until the next unsuspecting teenager 'earns' their wrath haha.

Watch Watts go down in the same category as players written off to early- including Frawley, Garland, Bail, Sylvia from our team... and players from other teams including Dawes, Goddard etc. At least he'll be in good company.

I am not prepared to write him "on" but you are 100% right on writing "off" and the players you mention ( except Col who still is hot and cold) really shows that you have to give players time to develop before making rash write off calls.

What game plan ?

We play soft unaccountable footy. Hardly a recipe for a flag.

Can you see the difference between your two comments ?

We have played patches of football where we have been too slow to push up, not prepared to work hard enough to get to a contest or make a contest and not gut running to offer options - stagnant slow football. Consequently when we did this we were blown off the park by Hawthorn and didnt nail either the swans or the lions

This has nothing to do with game plan.

Don't know about that, if you are a certain height and have any sort of space on your opponent, as long as your teammate puts it somewhere near your outstretched hands, it is almost impossible for a defender to spoil the mark because touching the arms, the back, or even taking his eye off the ball will gift the forward a free kick

Thats true - The key is that you are rarely getting any sort of space in the modern game - and after watching our first three games - let me rephrase - I wouldnt like to be a forward the way we are playing the game.

The only way to truely get space is to move the ball quickly. The odd minutes we have done that this year we have looked good.

When we slow the game down and dont take quick options all the space to move in gets clogged up.