nutbean

Carp.

Any position is defensible if it is backed up by sound logic and not proven incorrect by incontrovertible truth.

As long as opinion doesnt get confused with fact ( there is a lot of opinion being sprouted on this site - which is fine - that posters are trying to pass off as fact - which is not fine)

It' awful isn't it. If it was a straight-talking Guy McKenna type it'd be easier for Ward (and others) but to have to sit there next to 'Sideshow Sheeds' speaking drivel makes it very cringeworthy indeed.

Even Sheeds most bland comments at Essendon always had cringe value

Firmly entrenched in the last category. Believing no one except the three major players - Scully, MFC, GWS - none of have said he staying or going ( and I firmly discount "sources close to......")

Sorry, I missed the beginning of the show... will take your word for it. You seem slightly more credible than Kim Hagdorn... B)

Comparing me to him ? I am coming off a very low base.......

You can speak for me too Nutbean. I've been of that opinion all season.

Dont get me wrong - I will call a spade a mercenary if he leaves but right here and right now - he is a MFC player who hasnt made a decision.

Didn't really notice Scott's reaction to be honest. But Lynch's reaction to the question seemed encouraging to me... much like his "Melbourne supporters should be optimistic" comment from On The Couch a while back.

It was brought up twice in the show - at the very beginning and in the middle - in the middle section he said it should be known by weeks end. At the beginning of the show I think Scott was very sceptical about the process.

When I weigh up the benefits to each offer, it becomes crystal clear that the offer from MFC is better in the long run for his future, and his future earning potential. And this is, I believe, where we will see the difference in the coming days. If I am wrong, I will (un)happily eat my words, and I will be devastated to lose him. If I am right, I do not look forward to the way some of you will treat him given the way he has been treated throughout all of this.

This is where I disagree - I am not sure I can make the figures work to see it as a better financial option for him to stay with the MFC - but football is not all about finances - the emotional aspect of winning premierships and staying with mates counts for a lot - otherwise 3 Collingwood players would have marched.

I am hoping he see the non financial reasons for staying with us.

http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/player-profiles/

So Rhys Palmer's player profile is up on the GWS website. But....but I thought his manager said they would talk to another club? Oh you mean they just BS'ed everyone? Surely not?

I really find it hard to believe anyone thinks Scully will stay at the MFC. To me it is so blatantly bloody obvious he is going it's quite laughable.

I think that there is where posters are getting confused. There is one quite large camp that thinks he is gone. There is a very small camp that think he will stay. But there is a significant amount of people ( me included and I hope you dont mind me speaking for you, RPFC, Hardtack and Nasher) who to this point are taking TS at face value and saying that he will make a decision one way or the other and until the decision comes out of his or the clubs mouth everything else is pure conjecture. Therefore this camp is refusing to dump on the kid as at this moment as he is a MFC player.

Must admit I did see Lynch on AFL Insider last night - but I did not take it as "he's signed with GWS" at all... sounded to me like Tom is genuinely yet to decide (consistent with what G Lyon said on Monday night). The only thing Lynch revealed is that we're likely to know the outcome later this week.

Thats exactly what I thought as well. However did you also think that Brad Scott didnt believe him ? ( not that that makes one iota of difference)

He is gone. Alistair Lynch on Insider last night basically admitted it. .

I must have been watching a different program - Lynch basically admitted that a decision should be by the end of the week. Did I snooze through the part where he said " yeah, he is going" ?

He's chasing the extension, plain and simple.

The get out clause in his contract must have some very specific items that St Kilda can't offset with a 1 year extension. Would be an interesting read.

That's my take on it.

Always easier to get what you want when there is another suitor at the front the door.

I know what the irritation is.

The money is obscene.

But if Tom makes the bonehead decision to leave as a 20 year old who has done very little then that is his perogative.

They need the extra money to lure the boneheads and I am fine with that.

Would have hoped for an age limit but we are where we are.

It is Tom's decision and his alone.

He is making his bed, let's hope it stays in East Malvern...

I agree with everything you say but I just wish Dimwit would say that we had to create a structure to get boneheads up to GWS. We need them to get talent and we need them to be successful. Long term picture Short term pain - suck it up Stephanie.

If he said that then thats all good - we all know that - but Dimwit trying to wash his hands of the entire matter. Yes, ultimately it is up to the players to make a decision but make no mistake it is an AFL adventure that has caused players to have to make these decisions.

I have said before and repeat - this would be a hell of a lot more palatable if they age (23?) or contract ( 2nd contract) restricted GWS/ GC access to players.

I think he would want to aswell.

Maybe Green and Davey can too.

We'd be half decent...

I find it interesting that we have history of underpaying footballers and then they show something ( usually at contract renewel time) and we give them hefty increases and then they underperform.

Martin will get a nice increase as he has shown rapid progress.

However Davey, Bruce, Jeff Whites last contract, Woey. TJ and to a certain extent Green ( he performed well last year)got sizeable increases that they have not justified by performance.

Judd got an incredible amount of money to go to Carlton and IMO has been worth it.

Can you remember any MFC footballer that we have stepped up their earn a considerable amount and have actually repaid it in performance ?

Just a quick question - What if Tom decides to stay (and thsts a big if IMO) how will he be treated by the supporters?

Based on some of the comments on this site it seems there are quiet a few who now dislike him because of the process he has gone through to make up his mind.

Just curious.

It will be interesting - I have firmly been in the camp of pretty much disregarding everything and opting for "what will be will be" and this has somewhat helped me keep my sanity on this whole issue.

If he decides to stay I think the whole club internals will move on quickly but it will be interesting to see how the supporters react.

Whilst I acknowledge Toms right to make his decision at contracts end he and his management must also acknowledge that this strategy, with all its attached media hype, was sure to cause angst amongst some supporters.

Whether I like it or not there are two sides to the coin and a player protracting/dealying contract decisions which is their right will also cause some disharmony in the supporter group which I understand.

I don't understand how he's he's wrong?

Is it his fault Ward is a disloyal greedy pr***. Last time i checked, 400k for a 21yo was pretty good coin.

He didn't have to leave for 800k

As said above, daisy stayed for less and could have taken more.

It's not the AFL's fault gubby allen is overpaying (or is he?) for his squad...

My issue is that AFL continually espouses an "equal" competition.

What they have done has given all clubs a salary cap but have given larger concessions to two clubs over the last two years ( and next year). This nonsense that they have an extra 10 players is dribble when you recognise that the vast majority of their lists are draftees on fixed low salaries for two years.

So in a competitive player market all clubs are rolling up to an auction with a wallet full of money but the AFL has tucked an extra couple of 50's in the back pocket of GC and GWS.

If Scully or Ward go to Richmond or Collingwood then their respective clubs have not done their homework and put their best foot forward. For this example everyone involved is on a level playing field. I have no problem.

The reason Gubby Allen can overpay ( or pay more) his squad is the AFL has gifted them more TPP than the rest of the competition.

Each club has to sell the dream to their players to stay and not move for the bucks. But Dimwit should acknowledge that the structure he has sanctioned allows GWS to pay more money to get uncontracted players.

This is what riles me when Dimwit talked of Scully and likens it to Jeff White.

Beside the fact that Jeff White wanted to come back Melbourne and would have gone to a number of Melbourne based clubs Freo and MFC had the same cap to play with. So it was competitive. I know I am getting to get shot down here because I believe that we rorted the Cap in those years but the principle is simple - if we all have the same money to play with then let the best man win.

Dimwit needs to acknowledge that he has given GWS ( and GC) a competitive advantage going into player auctions. If he does that and says it for the long term good of the game I have no problem. Its his refusal to acknowledge the obvious that gets up my nose

He enabled them , why would he stop them .

The arrogance of the man in treating the supporters like idiots disgusts me .

Thats what gets me - the "treating us like idiots" factor.

Why not say what we all know

On expansion - "We have to create an unequal playing field as we need the expansion clubs to succeed. Clubs will feel short term pain but our league has been successful operating for over 100 years and whilst losing players to GW/GC17 will hurt some clubs in the short term we as custodians must look at the big picture" - whether you agree with the direction of the league or not - it is an honest statement

On tanking - "When clubs are out of the hunt for finals they start to focus on the next season and do what is right for the club - of course the players should get operations out the way early and youth will be tried and there will be experimentation on players positions. Will it effect the team winning a game of football ? Probably - but it is a fact that when footballers take the field they play to win". When the question comes - "but is that not losing for better draft picks" - you would answer "one of the greatest unknown is what 22 footballers will do on a football ground - Melb v Richmond is a perfect example - if that was losing for draft picks then it was an anxious strategy of relying on a kick after the siren" - again - this answer doesnt treat us like idiots.

That arrogant %^$##& would be better off not trying to spin something that is unspinnable

Did anyone notice how we the ante has just been upped ?

Whilst there were brief mentions of 6 years, the standard for the last couple of months has been $5m over five year from GWS.

Somehow we have just accepted that there has now been an extra "mill" and a year slipped in without batting an eyelid. Extraordinary !

I know that the Club made an offer to Clarkson, and that is not based on media speculation.

I am sure you will be avalanched with the word "source" ?

But then if you have a source at the club who says we offered a deal to Clarkson why would you dismiss all the media people saying Scully is gone according to their sources ?

Just playing devils advocate instead of doing work which I am paid for ...

Unless there is someone who is willing to stand up and say something definitive and put their name to it I tend to dismiss everything.

Now Chip Frawley according to some on here went on triple M and said " Tom announced to the players he is staying" - that to me is pretty interesting. Thats a name and a statement.

Well, there was more than 2 that we really wanted. It is fact that we offered Clarkson a 5 year deal, and it was made public, which led to him re-signing. It has been aired that we have offered Lyon a similar deal, to which he has not yet denied. The only "offer" that hasn't been made public is one to Malthouse.

OMR while complained we haven't seen anything, also later suggested that in his mind, the deal had been done. However, you decide to pick parts of a post to suit your insignificant disagreements.

The funny part about your earlier post; you mentioned that both Malthouse and Lyon are still involved in the season, so they shouldn't "out" themselves, yet you have been squealing for Scully to come clean all year? Loving your double standards...

Need to pick you up on a couple of things - it is not fact that we offered Clarkson a 5 year deal. That's media again. In fact there has been conflicting reports as Clarkson said that he knew of interest from Melbourne and Adelaide but nothing firm. So again we are relying on unsubstantiated media reports. And that we have offered anything to Lyon is again media - all MFC officialdom has stated is we would be negligent not to make enquiries as to the status of these coaches.

I am not selective in what I believe Media is telling me. I take everything the media says with a grain of salt as so much of it gets proven to be wrong. Lyon has indeed said he doesnt deal in rumour and innuendo - does that mean that there is no deal been given to him by Melbourne or is Lyon actually lyin' ? Being offered a 5 year deal is not rumour and innuendo if indeed that is what he has been offered.

So there's the conundrum - what to believe and what not to believe.

Edit - Falling into the trap - if you want to take it as gospel that we have indeed offered these deals and that is being reported only by media then that is the same media who are more than suggesting that Scully is gone according to their sources ?

I think GWS want big bodies to compliment the youth they will pick up.

Warnock for the first 17 year old pick - O'Meara !

( wait for it ...wait for it...I can here them coming)

I do suspect he is trying to up his price with GWS with the "others are interested" line. So far he has not proven to be a gem (still young though - I revert to the Nutbean law of not giving final judgement until 23 years old)

Me suspects Rhys Palmer and his five daughters.

They asked him when do you think the Tom Scully issue will come to a close

He talked about how as a player he expects him to be there and plans on that. He also said Scully told them he will be there next year

"He has said to us he's going to be here next year and I take his word on it"

That is a massive statement from Chip.

( to repeat - I am only really interested in sign or resign and disregard everything else written or said but wow !)

But "here" at the time he made the statement could only have meant Adelaide Oval!! So ... he's going to Port??

hmmm that dents my argument.

nope - still going to GWS but his knee is so bad he is taking two years off ( until 2014)- then the following year he will play for GWS and have at least one away game at the Adelaide oval.

They asked him when do you think the Tom Scully issue will come to a close

He talked about how as a player he expects him to be there and plans on that. He also said Scully told them he will be there next year

"He has said to us he's going to be here next year and I take his word on it"

hmmmm - but did Frawley press and ask how many games he will be "here" next year as the Giants will play us at least once on the G next year so he will definitely be here - and then theres games he plays against the co-tenants at the G.....I'm tipping he will be here next year at least 4-6 times ?

( tongue pressed so firmly in cheek that it is dangling out of my ear)

Rekon you just hit the nail on the head Nutbean

It's going on 6 Weeks since Bails left the building.

Why hasn't there been any visable leg work in appointinting the next Coach?

The announced selection commitee has smoke screen written all over it.

The deal is done - I dont know the official outcome however stay tuned.

To me it appears Garry Lyon has already landed his man.

Interesting Paul and OMR - I have zero idea - but it will interesting to see how it plays out.

I always live in the "refuse to speculate" camp - but I have posted elsewhere about Ross Lyon's handling of the question on his future today. Lots of land posters were reading into what Tom said and didnt say in his March presser. Those posters will have a field day on Ross Lyons answers today. Ambiguity personified.