nutbean

And would the club want someone that was as deceitful as this?

Mick Malthouse was in print in early 1999 ( please dont ask me to find the article - it was linked on another website earlier this year) saying he would honour his contract expiring in 2000 at WCE.

Ex chairman of the WCE - Ian Hamilton said this -

Or perhaps Hamilton the mischief maker, having watched a dual premiership coach spirited away by the Magpies, couldn't resist the chance to fire a light- hearted shot back across McGuire's bow. "As people who were on the board at West Coast at the time (1999) would say - it is all very well for Eddie to be talking about the sanctity of contracts now but…"

Even an unfinished sentence sends a message sometimes.

So in answer to your question - who would want someone as deceitful as a coach that works away from a club with one year to run on a contract for greener pastures - like Malthouse - apparently Collingwood in 1999/2000 and me speaking for the MFC in the year 2012.

IF Lyon has success at Freo, like Malthouse at Collingwood, it will all become a hazy memory.

They have orchestrated it to get the man they want.

Very very ugly way of doing it - if they go to the finals next year and have success it will be forgotten quicker than you can say nutbean.

Ruthless and decisive which ever way you look at it.

I am hoping we have been equally as cold blooded and been talking very loudly in a coaches ear who is very much contracted at present.

I hope we are whispering in the ears of any or all footballers who are contracted or coming out of contract to see if they want to jump on board.

These actions will be quickly forgotten if they are successful. Remember Collingwood poached a contracted coach in Malthouse who still had a year to run at Eagles.

Football clubs scrap heap coaches without a blink of the eye.

Malcolm Blight at StKilda ...bang...gone......

Now it may be unsavoury the way it has reportedly gone down with Ross Lyon and StKilda and Harvey and Freo but does anyone see the irony of the situation.

Ross - how dare you put your interests before the club and walking out on StKilda - no loyalty ..no integrity

Freo - how dare you put the clubs interest before the coach - sacking your coach without any consideration for him - heartless and ruthless.

So is the coach wrong at StKilda or the club wrong at Freo ?

And before I get yelled down - it could have been handled infinitely better.

I heard the interview and it made me want to support another club. he was SO convincing (NOT)

It seems that skullduggery is the only innocent, upstanding person of integrity in this sad play

Bailey some how shifted all suspicion of beytrayal to any and all associated with the club and absolved Tom Thumb of any deception.

A person of quality and integrity he said of the small outside knee buggered mercenary

Tommy never even thought of the GWS shift until the Sunday morning stroll over the harbour bridge which resulted in a serendipitous meeting with GRUBBY and the Martian

Give ma a break. Bailey is an expert at lobbing hand grenades a snide and clever fellow, a Shite coach.

wow - we must have listened to different interviews

Not necessarily either.

They might not have not a coach lined up at all and are still searching.

My incompetenece comment stems from taking at face value Robbo and G Lyons comments that we didnt have talks with him at all. If not, why not ? Waiting to see what StKilda did ? pleassseee.....

Would be happy to hear down the track

1/ we talked to him but not interested ( because we were $2.5M trumped by Freo)

2/ We didnt need to talk to him because we already had someone in the pipeline

Would be unhappy to hear down the track that we didnt get a top line coach and we didnt talk to Ross Lyon because we didnt get the chance ( as both Robbo and Garry said).

you may hate how cold blooded and ruthless both Freo and Lyon have been but we could use a dose of that ruthlessness

Ummm, this situation says more about the Saints, Ross Lyon, and Freo than us...

Freo are getting their big boy pants! Coldblooded and efficient. They talked directly to Lyon. Unbelievable.

Lyon has not trusted his own management with this which tells me he didn't want this out in the open and wanted to keep those at the Saints with which he holds in such great regard (pffft) in the dark.

And the poor old Saints. You dither and you disrespect and you shouldn't do that. Have an idea of what you want to do and do it. But they should be better off getting a young coach in. They need to rebuild, I am sure they will try to get MM but whether Malthouse wants to rebuild Seaford is a hard sell...

As for the Demons - we look impotent but if we get who I want us to wait and get then we are Casanova with a bag of blue pills...

But I am concerned that this Burns/Craig notion is gathering legs. It's not a bad option in the slightest, but it isn't Malthouse.

We will see...

Whilst this may be a little too messy for my liking I do like the ruthless nature of what Freo did and would like us to take a few notes.

Thought JT's tweet about the $cully $aga was perfect.

"Disappointing news about Skulls today! Life goes on. On a better note though @calemorton and marts have re-signed. Bring on 2012".

Not once has he wished him luck or that he understands his decision. Perhaps JT should run social networking classes down at the bubble dome.

Just need Brad Green to come out and tweet something similar to JT. Again, it doesn't have to be a personal attack, but a statement that this MFC team are focused on massive improvement in 2012 now that all distractions are gone. Perhaps he needs to do it after the coach has been announced.

Trenner's for captain...just not 2012 (I'm happy with 2012 if he takes another step forward next year).

I tweeted back to Nathan Jones that his tweet re Scully was plain dumb. I understand that to footballers the game is a profession and to varying degrees they must consider monetary gains - for Scully it was a major motivation, for Trenners obviously a secondary motivation. But we supporters actually pay to watch. Therefore our expectations are different, we only think about team, winning and loyalty. If a player is great then he should show loyalty and stay. If we consider him a duf - sack him without a second thought.

Nathan Jones tweet ("I fully understand Skulls decision, Good luck") was dumb - 90% of his audience would be supporters and we see his defection as disloyal. Know your audience Jonesy. Text him your thoughts by all means but dont tweet something for all the supporters to read when the great majority are dirty on his actions.

Here you go High Tower.

Nutbeans Law - why do you believe all the crap that is written and spoken by journo's and the media at large- there are so many inconsistencies and half truths it is impossible to distinguish fact from fiction.

We offered Clarkson 5 years, Clarkson spoke of interest but no offers. We put an offer to Lyon and Robbo tweets we didnt put an offer to him. Who the hell knows what is true and what is false.

So in four weeks time or earlier we will have a new coach.

If it is not someone special then feel free to moan about

1/ our incompetence at not approaching Lyon or

2/ our ineffectiveness at our attemp to land Lyon if we did approach him

I am happy to whine and moan once I find out who our coach is.I will be happy to draw to some conclusions once I see where all this ends up and who our coach is.

(Sorry HT - a bit long winded)

McChins will not release Malthouse he's made it obvious

Malthouse will not coach anywhere next year.

I cant see it happening I'm really annoyed we hadnt approached Lyon

seeks almost negligent not to have got to him at some point.

Because Eddie believes it is totally immoral for a coach to walk out on a contract. Totally unethical to be poached by another club whilst still in the employ of another club.

Remind me if Malthouse still had a year to run at the Eagles before the Pies got into his ear ?

If Malthouse wants to coach elsewhere he will coach elsewhere.

Alright - we have had all conspiracy theorists on the Scully situation - so whilst this is not a conspiracy theory ..I think it makes sense

Robbo just tweeted that the Dees didnt make an offer to Lyon - didnt get the chance. If that is to be believed...

MFC are one of the two things

1/ Incompetent ; or

2/ Already signed a coach of significance ( read grey haired madman currently still coaching but a damn fine coach)

I suggest that my theory will be proven one way or the other....

Strange day indeed nutbean.

Do you have a law about this scenario.

Nutbean's law on media - "I'll believe it, when I see it"...

Apologies..couldn't help myself/

Very close.

When it comes to contracts and signings

"i'll believe it when I smell ink on paper."

Edit: I remember this posters on this very site all congratulating each other on the apparent decision of Judd to come to the Dees to have the official announcement 1 day later that we were no longer in the hunt

Absolutely loved Matthews ( except when he hit my boys).

1/ When he played he dished it out but copped plenty in return and never as much as said boo... ( unlike Greg Williams)

2/ I even like his refreshing honesty now - "what do you think of the assessment that when you played you were a bit of thug" - answered "unfortunate but fair - if I could have my time again there a few actions I would take back".

Matthews is honest and open.

I'm inclined to think there was an agreement in principle that was not binding, or even just a strong indication that he would 'consider an offer.'

As the signing drew nearer, Scully's side held out for more, or GWS knowing they needed to use their 1st year salary cap space on something offered more to get the deal over the line.

A contract was never in place, but Scully's willingness to entertain them through his management and undergo medicals on the downlow, indicated his interest was serious, and when they knew they had that, GWS knew they'd be able to offer enough to get him over the line once negotiations began in earnest.

Whilst I am in the "nothing decided until the end" camp, I wont dismiss this as at least it explains why the GWS upped their offer by $1M and 1 year at the death knell. If nothing was binding and Scully "wavered" the upping of the offer makes sense.

I repeat again for all those who have relied on Journo's and sources and said it has been binding for months - that was the same sources and journo's that said $5m over 5 years. Explain to me why a binding offer had to leap by $1M and 1 year only weeks ago ?

What I found interesting is the same day all the papers are reporting Lyon staying at the Saints is done deal, Adelaide for the first time express interest in him. WTF ?

ok RR. sorry mate, Apologies. Their doing a terrific stand-up job.

Actually I agree that we have too many Brighton types - I just looked at Collingwoods board and I know that 3 of them at least live in Toorak and without type casting the others, where exactly would the CEO of the Pies, a surgeon, an Olympic skier and CEO of Starcom live ?

For goodsakes Dees wise up and stop having poverty striken Brighton types on the board - we need Toorak !!!!!

I believe GWS upped their offer to Scully a number of times, and I bet the 5 years becoming 6 was a very recent addition. Like nutbean I highly doubt their initial offer to Scully's management last year or whenever looked anything like the one he ended up with.

Still think Scully wasn't lying the whole year and that he made his decision very late in the piece. Still think he's a [censored] for leaving. Will still always inwardly boo him (and possibly outwardly) when watching the footy. Still very keen to move on now.

Amen Brother

More the point ..... to what extent did Scully's signing have to do with Jr?

Unless Junior rocked up with the first $2m for next year - zip.

Why should anyone feel like a "[censored]" for showing belief in a demons player? As it turns out he made a dash for the cash, but all of us who supported him up until yesterday, have no reason to feel bad at all. I for one would rather see a culture of supporting our players as opposed to running them down at every given opportunity as we see so often on this and other forums.

The one thing that has never been adequately explained to me by all those believing that he was signed yonks ago and we should have believed the media is the continual esculating years and dollars on offer.

So here's the GWS strategy from last October - they signed Tom back in last years window but did a slow leak to the media - first we'll leak $800K over 4 years ( that was the first reports) - then we'll leak from April to August - $5M over 5 years and we'll have one more little leak in the last 2 weeks of $6M over 6 years. Yup - that makes sense.

I can assume from those who want me to believe he was gone from last year is that the offer was always $6M over 6 years from day one and all the dollars and years reported by the media were plain wrong ( including the ox who mentioned the $5M over 5 years.) The only way this makes any sense as being done and dusted long before is if the first offer was always $6M over 6 years.

We all want to point to indicators - would you not suggest the upping of the GWS offer from $5M over 5 years to $6M over 6 years indicated that either he hadnt decided or if he had decided he was wavering ? Why would you up the ante again ? MFC was never going to match the reported $5M offer.

As I have said elsewhere - goodbye and good luck (Beamer - please put you Brock words into action on field next season) - gone for the money as opposed to Trenners who has stayed for the dream.

Sage advice Nutbean. Needs to make better decisions on field.

Don't get me wrong - I can list Cale's shortcomings in a succinct 3000 words essay. But I could have done the same with Stef Martin last year and the essay is much shorter this year as he is coming into his prime and Brendan Goddards essay from his 21st can now fit on the back of a postage stamp.

Every good scribe tells you that you must wait for footballers to mature - then you know what you will get. Wait for body maturity and development to take its course. The common theme is 23/24 of age.

We may look back in two years and say - Cale, what a waste. I think Cale has some really huge challenges ahead to make him worthy of a number 4 pick - but everything just may click for the lad. I'm just not prepared to toss him yet.

Sure it may have played some part...but the fact that GWS had to put another year and $1m on the contract and pay $2m up front making him the highest player in the AFL suggests that the money had to be to a point where it was impossible to say no and that up until the point it was offered he was not over the line.

Not withstanding the need to improve any point of contention for its players, I think the club would be stupid to think that money was anything but the most significant factor.

And heartbeatstrue...well said!

Agreed and we would be wise to look at Mrs Ward ( Callan's mum) who made it 100% clear why her son was leaving. There were millions of reasons and they were all called money.

Even Richitelli was more than frank. In an interview he said he was very upset with the Lions throwing him around as trade bait the year before and when an offer to good to refuse came along from GC it made it easy for him.

Even Luke Ball who was pi$$ed off with StKilda made it perfectly clear that he was so unhappy with the Saints that he had to leave for Collingwood and Collingwood only. His strategy was risky but basically clubs rarely pick up players who dont want to be at the club.

Taking the person out of the equation if we could have a player that still has mileage be on the field and also be an assistant coach, it would be of great benefit to the players.

You could argue that your good onfield leaders should be directing the younguns anyway - giving them advice and direction - psuedo assitant coaches on the ground. But it is taking that leading and coaching role of players one step further.

I could see merit of North Melbourne promoting Brady Rawlings as an assistant coach at the beginning of this year and have him privvy to all coaching meetings and then have him mentor,ooach and direct players in his last year on the field. I wouldnt be advocating this type of coach would be pulling moves but I think a Rawlings type has the discipline to be able to mentor and advise on field.

It is almost back to the captain coach role but your head coach will still be pulling moves,the onfield assistant would only be an onfield teacher.

The only question mark on this is whether there is actual time in play to do your job as a player and be talking to team-mates at the same time.

Nutbean's law of not potting under 23 year olds

Surprised to learn that Cale is only 21 and will be 22 next January

Stef Martin - surprise surprise - is 24 - coming into his prime.

Whilst unbelievably frustrating and has to make up ground quickly to justify his no 4 selection, Cale is 21 years old - may I direct your attention ( again ) to a 21 year old spud called Brendan Goddard.

Well then you and pipe are just as silly as each other.

Did you hear one bad word about the club from Jimmy? No.

For the slow amongst us who still think Tom Scully is number 31 for Melbourne, the reason the McD situation was bad was because WE STUFFED IT UP. Don't believe me - believe the club, who admitted it.

You are starting to sound like a journo - selective.

Dean Bailey indeed said they stuffed it up - the club stuffed up the handling and timing of the forced retirement - not the decision itself.

Dean Bailey said that given their time again they would have told James early of their intention not to renew his contract for another year but Bailey said that the decision not to renew was always correct.

At no stage has the MFC said the we "Stuffed up by not giving him another year"

To his credit James McDonald has handled it like the gentleman he is.

With Junior going up to Sydney ,just shows what a pitiful decision our football department did last year sacking him, Miller and letting Bruce all go at the same time.Pitiful in my opinion.Every team needs experience and we chucked ours out.

yup it made a huge difference - we won two wooden spoons with them at the club two years previously, we improved with them last year and did we actually fall away dramatically because they werent at the club ?

We absolutely lack leadership and experience but did Bruce and Miller actually provide that ? I take Junior out of the equation because the major cross on him was that his body was not coping - recurring soft tissue injuries.

Edit - our improvement last year came not because our leaders stepped up but because some of the youth started to provide impetus.

I don't, I blame the club for the way they handled it and the fact they haven't got him at the club in some capacity. On the other hand I would hate to see him look stupid and hope he decides to call it a day if it looks like he's starting to.

Melbourne really gives me the shits the way they handle things at times.

Loved him as a player and the club should have told earlier in the year however the bottom line is that he is a player who wanted to play on and the club didnt - it happens.

Cameron Bruce wants two years we offer him one - it happens.

Brad Miller thinks he has more to offer - it happens

Guerra gets told by two clubs his services arent required - it happens

Heath Scotland wanted more opportunity so he moved to Carlton - it happens

Brogan,Cornes and Power - thanks for the careers and then move to GWS to play some more - it happens.

The club could have told him earlier but the end result would have been no different - he wanted to play on, we didnt want him to. End of story