BennytheJet

Viney, Snr, I presume :-)

Yes it was of the senior variety! I also overheard them commenting on how Emma Quayle 'picked it', but thats the only snippet I got - so I have no idea what "it" is

FWIW I saw Neeld and Viney at the Virgin lounge out of Melbourne this morning at app. 8.40am. I was on the 9.10am to GC and they were off to board before me (on another flight). Cant quite recall what other flights there were but I did see Sydney and Adelaide (I think)

No its not- it may not be entirely accurate but it is fair comment, With a decent legal system like the Napoleonic code the court room theatrics wouldn't exist.Anyway thanks for the comment Justice Jet

The Napoleonic code?!! Oh dear... a system that was on the brink of collapse 5 years ago.. theres a reason why it doest work. One of the chief amongst them being that an inordinate amount of innocent people are found guilty. I can't be bothered explaining why that is..

dworship, biffin et al - youre comments are insulting and trivialise the efforts of the vast majority of legal professionals (myself included) who treat their professional obligations and their responsibilities to the court with the utmost seriousness (dworship, our obligations to the court exceed those to our clients. Hence we may 'represent' clients, but the truth is and must be paramount). Not to mention the countless hours of charitable work, community service, and professional workshopping a lot of us perform to improve our industry and access to justice.

Human beings lie and are greedy - not lawyers. Each and every industry that all of you work for has and faces the exact same problems. The adversarial system is not perfect, nor is any other profession. Hence why as a society we constantly evolve.

I take issue when people watch a current affairs, read some literary masterpiece from the herald sun, or listen to their mate 'Bill' from work talk about how they got 'screwed' in court, and all of a sudden have the audacity to characterise an entire industry. Not to mention one that has housed almost unparalleled academic genius over the past 200 years in Australia. No different to someone who watches 'Company Men' and suddenly is an expert on the GFC

Having said that all, I don't practice in criminal law so I can't speak for that part of the legal industry. Although I can comfortably speak for lawyers generally - and Biffen, no I haven't just finished law school. Ive started, built and run a law practice that employs over 30 lawyers nationally. I speak with some level of authority,

Self-aggrandizing over

dworship and that other poster - you clearly can't place the word apprehend in appropriate context

I dont know much about law but you cannot be charged with defaming an industry. Otherwise we couldn't tell any more lawyer jokes.

You sure can (although its not criminal therefore there are no 'charges') - an individual within a class of persons can sue for defamation against a class of persons.

Sorry for degrading this forum into legal parlance..

It's called the legal system, it's based on argument, therefore it's about who tells the best /strongest story and not about the truth.

Defence lawyers aren't the ones under oath and therefore misrepresent the truth all the time.

No its not. Don't presume to characterise something which you clearly have absolutely no apprehension or understanding of.

Your statement is palpably wrong, and defamatory.

Accepting firstly that we have one of the worst collection of footballers since fitzroy..

How was this game plan developed for modern footy? 4 or 5 forwards with 3 or more of them playing high half forward/wing

No team could possibly score enough to win a game of football with this plan.

Benny, if we sought to reprimand you we'd have just tossed you out - that's not what this is about. It's about calling for calm, and I agree with Fan that having circular arguments that are only going to end in posts at each others throats without finding any common ground isn't helpful. That's all.

It makes no difference - I've already chided myself at attempting to have some sort of sensible and thought-provoking discussion on a 'chat forum'. I was clearly misguided, and will not make the same mistake again.

Benny out

Olisik and Benny you've had your say. Others have had a chance to respond. Please leave the personal stuff out of it. There is enough stuff on this issue that it needs no further comment. Use the "Like This" button if you want to add your support for a view.

As Whispering Jack has said this is a very sensitive issue and the mods will take a very hard line both to keep the discussion civil and avoid any legal implications.

Anyone stepping too far off course will be banned with a no tolerance policy.

Please respect the situation guys.

Fan

Fan, how about some impartiality? I was the first one criticised, much, much, more harshly then I have given back, yet you seek to reprimand me??

So what you are saying is you would make a judgement without knowing the facts.

Im not passing any personal, social or moral judgment on what has occurred with Liam - which you would see if you could progress past the opaque and obvious inclination of many here to attempt to imply some sort of barbaric or ignorant theme into what I have written, and then conveniently get 'up in arms' with a whole host of sanctimonious expressions.

To summarise my views:

- MFC is a business, and very recently a struggling one at that (some would say its by no means out of the woods)

- We are struggling for sponsorship and membership

- a player (not an aboriginal - that is incidental) has requested personal leave whilst injured and before the start of a very important season for the club

- this player has been arrested, and charged, with possession, intent, and causing serious injury with a machete

- being charged with a criminal offence, NOT PROVEN, is cause for summary dismissal in nearly all employment relationships

- accordingly, MFC should and I have no doubt will, one way or another, bring an end to its employment relationship with this player at the appropriate time. I support this.

- the financial ramifications for the MFC as a result of this could be catastrophic.

- I wish this player the best and hope he comes through it as best as can be hoped.

It will be interesting to see how the club handles this given its recent spouting of 'no-nonsense' and 'elite preparation and expectations of players' which is purported to be some sort of panacea to our listlessness and inconsequential existence in the league which has been the hallmark of recent eras.

Benny, you're full of it. What the club should - and will - do now is get behind him until the law takes its course and the full facts, or as close to them as we can get are known.

Criminal law moves slowly and this case may not be heard for months. Some outline will be presented this afternoon and then we will know more but not everything.

It's the club's role to back the bloke and support him and his community as much as is possible. That's what footy clubs do. Yes Benny it's a business but a special kind of business that loses any meaning if it does not stand by its own.

The bigger significance of this is that it gives us city whites an insight into the troubled world that many of our indigenous people inhabit.

Mate of course it will because it will be a PR nightmare if it jumps ship straight away - regardless of the outcome he won't play a game of football for the club again, and the club will cut ties at the appropriate time. There's things called stakeholders etc that are, and given our legal and economic climate, must be given the utmost consideration. Social awareness and 'insights' into aboriginal difficulties pale in comparison - as said previously, this fight will and must be taken up for the most part in other avenues. Unfortunately businesses have to think about their bottom line.

So quick to judge.

I am glad your say stands for close to nothing.

As am I with yours - luckily you dont have to consider the wider and deeper financial ramifications an incident such as this can have on the MFC

What a ridiculous argument "Regardless of any explanation" and you admit you know nothing of his situation but you're happy to cut him loose! Like most others I'm far from happy about what's happened at that someone was seriously hurt, but at what point do we stop the cycle of embracing the Aboriginal community and then opportunely cut it off when we don't like confronting complex, ingrained problems.

Simply, we should be trying to be part of the solution, not trying to wash our hands of it.

If this happened to ANY of my employees - yes I would dismiss them summarily, and would be justified (both legally and morally) in doing so. MFC is a business, not a charity or social awareness vehicle, and for the most part the problems you mention can and must be taken up in other avenues.

You know nothing, as you say, but you cast judgment?

We employ him, and until adjudication we should stand by him.

If he pleas and says he committed a terrible crime then we can break our ties at that stage but, as I keep on saying, nothing is black and white in this world and we shouldn't make rash decisions without all the facts. The justice system will do what it does, and we go from there.

Australia has its challenges, and one is being laid bare at the moment, we are caught up in it and I want the MFC to represent our community as a reasonable and respectful player in this mess.

Good post and I understand the challenges the club is facing at the moment - whatever is the outcome, I would like to think the MFC would not countenance this behaviour from any of our employees. Is it trite to say that professional sportspeople cannot be involved in machete fights??....

I would be interested to see what his employment contract says in regards to this - being charged (not proven) with a criminal offence is cause for summary dismissal in most employment relationships. It would almost certainly be the case with any media or sponsorship agreements, and I would bet my house on the fact that each and every sponsor would be in a position to immediately and summarily terminate their agreements with the club as a result of this incident.

So if it is found that he has no part in the viscious assault and was just caught up in the brawl (with his only family members) you would tell him that he is not welcome back at the club.

I tell ya what, if my family was involved in a brawl, i wouldnt give a [censored] who I played for/worked for or anything, I would be there protecting the ones I loved. They are the most important thing in my life. Period.

Get off your high horse

Mate it's the complete opposite, Im on the low horse here - "I tell ya what, if my family was involved in a brawl, i wouldnt give a [censored] who I played for/worked for or anything, I would be there protecting the ones I loved. They are the most important thing in my life. Period." How hypothetically noble of you, as would I, and I too would be expected to lose my job over it (amongst many other things)

Yes, I would absolutely tell him he has no place at the club even if he 'just got caught up in the brawl', even though Im not quite sure what 'just getting caught up' in a machete fight entails.

I think as a club the MFC and all supporters should get right behind LJ and take a moment to think about how hard it must be for someone so young to have so much responsibility and pressure put on them and how hard that must be. I do not condone what is being alleged to have happened. I just think we need to show Liam that he has a family here in Melbourne that supports him no matter what, not just when it suits us.

Unbelievable - we have a professional sportsman here representing one of the oldest clubs in the world, who requests personal leave from the club on the outset of what is one of our most important seasons in memory, is then arrested and charged with possession, intent, and causing serious injury (all with a machete mind you) and you're crying for support?

Im sick of this cliche and fashionable attitude - "A very open article that everyone should read before jumping to conclusions on situation and character". Give me a break..

Regardless of any explanation, he has no place at the Melbourne Football Club following this incident. End of story. I say and comment nothing on his personal situation as I know nothing of it nor of the trials and tribulations his position in the Yuendemu community puts him through, save to say that I wish him all the best with what must be a tough time for him.

[/q

Innocent bystanders dont get Charged....Liam was arrested and charged..

I would be very surprised if Liam ever pulls on another Melbourne jumper.

Very sad.....what a waste of talent.

You can be almost certain of that I would have thought. There's close to zero chance he'll ever pull on another Melbourne jumper - and rightly so.

Enjoyed Magners game in particular. He had about 4 clearances in the space of 2 minutes and a couple of inside 50's in the same period. We must elevate this guy for round one. I would take him over all other rookies at this stage.

May have been the conditions but he and Couch just seem like less skilled (if thats even possible) carbon copies of Moloney and Jones. Hard bodied clearance players who will win more 1 and 1's than they lose however it's simply not going to win us games. Sure we may be competitive but the skills, composure and awareness just aren't there. We might not lose as badly as we did last year, but we're going to lose a LOT.

Here's what I saw:

- Clark, Watts, Martin and any other tall forward will struggle with the delivery they're going to be getting from the midfielders

- our crumbers better be damn good this year because there's going to be a lot of long bombs and balls to ground

- Magner, Couch et al are reasonable inclusions to put pressure on the kids and set the example in application and commitment to the contest however they are so far from A or even B grade AFL midfielders its not even funny. Remember Mcgough (or whatever his name was) from Collingwood who won best on in a wet anzac game a few years ago and then was never seen again? Thats why its not enough to simply be a hard nosed midfielder any more. We need elite-skilled mids not more battlers.

Until we find one or two more Trengove's we'll be a good honest team at best. It won't be pretty football, but it will be better than losing games 100+ a la last year.

Having said all that... it was just the NAB cup. Can't take too much away from it, but you can take some things.

I thought Matthew Bishop was on the cusp of being one of the leagues better defenders when he left for Port. Was also at a time when we were crying our for tall defenders

From your knowledge what is his tank like aerobically & also his repeat efforts throughout a game?

Was freakishly fit when he was younger and quite slight, then filled out from age of 16 onwards. Wouldn't say fitness/repeat efforts are his strongest point now given his size but at the same time certainly not his weakness.

Very powerful. I remember him benching 150kg+ as an 18 yo. Crazy.

Family friends with James and watched him go through the ranks. Also used to throw some iron around in the gym with him.

Pound for pound the strongest bloke Ive ever known/seen. Will set the bar very high in the gym - which would be a good thing for many of our young mids

Bartram Frawley Garland

Grimes Rivers Davey

Sylvia Moloney Scully

Watts Dunn Green

Wona Petterd Jurrah

R:Jamar Trengove Mckenzie

Int: Jones Gysberts Bennell

Sub: Morton

Apologies to Bail Bate and Macdonald. Havent considered anyone who hasnt played 5 games (other than gysberts, who was clearly good enough for best 21)

Sounds great im addicted to fantasy basketball love category head to head formats

Im in

Two more names for the list.

Ben Jakobi (Coburg)

Daniel Nicholson (Uni Blues)

Played with Ben (1 game) and against Dan Nicholson this year. Was actually opposed to him at various times throughout the game.

Nicholsons a good player - quick, skillful, glides across the turf. Wouldnt surprise me if he was rookie listed somewhere

really? the first time i saw him was at casey for a intra-club praccy match, i think his first appearance for the club.. i walked directly past him as he lined up on the wing at the start of the second half (supporters had been on the field) now I am certainly no Jake Spencer let me tell you now, and I remember being surprised at how little there was of him. Still, I am sure he has grown vertically and horizontally since then

I thought the exact same thing a year ago - I guess thats why I was surprised when I saw him in Shanghai. He has definitely grown both ways since then - Id suggest he'd be around the 186 - 88cm / 84 - 86kgs mark these days. Pretty decent size for a clearance mid.

Apologies for the rubbish ICS feed on smgbb.cn - no idea what was going on with the bushland backdrop.

The broadcast looked great on TV over here, aside from the fact that we couldn't get audio from the staduim until half way through the first, meaning we had to commentate from the studio.

Jurrah had a field day, 5 goals, half a dozen more chances and he made it all look easy.

Really impressed with Col today, broke the lines and kicked long. Always dangerous.

They were the standout players.

Newton was tried in defense, got a bit of it. Most of the other players drifted in and out of the game.

At WJ's request I'm going to try to get a DVD of the game from the studio that we can distribute to you all.

I was there also and agree Jurrah was out of control. I hate to put too much pressure on someone but he's got serious stakes on being the most skillful player ever to play the game. He is scary good.

Sylvia was very good his ability to power through clearances was impressive. Also spencil and trengove teamed up a number of times at stoppages. I was surprised when I met trengove he's quite tall?? 6 2ish?