warren dean

B59 you make some good points but I think it's pretty hard to argue that the recruitment of KPP's, whatever the instructions of the coaching department might have been, have been ordinary during CAC's time. A quick look at our current KPP's illustrates this. Nathan Carroll was a rookie, who had spent time at Fremantle, Jared Rivers was taken after Bell and Nick Smith in 2002, Miller at 55 in that horrible draft of 2001 (the Molan draft), Neitz came through the junior ranks of the old zoning system.

It would be fair to say that the selections of Chris Lamb, Daniel Breese, Luke Molan (unlucky), Nick Smith, Aaron Rogers etc were not successful. The jury is still out on Frawleyand Dunn. Not sure if you would consider Bate a KPP, but he looks a good likely lead up forward. Most of these guys were taken inside the top 30. Ash Hansen at WCE was a high 30's choice, as was Brendan Fevola (38).

I think our very good record in rookie drafts (Robertson, J McDonald, Bassett, Bishop, Jolly, Jamar, Carroll, Warnock, Davey etc), plus no brainers like McLean and Sylvia ( both pretty obviously highly ranked players in 2003), mixed with the absolute stellar draft of 1999 which netted Green, Wheatley, Whelan and Bruce (about 500 games from those 4!) makes CAC's record look acceptable. The 99 draft was a ripper given that we missed out on the first round due to our salary cap breaches.

I guess what I am saying is that all areas of the club are equally accountable for the current situation-coaching, recruiting, medical, administration and let's not forget the players!

Warren - interesting table. There must be more than 22 premiership coaches, as (off the top of the head) Charlie Clymo coached Geelong to one in 1931 in his one and only year - the ultimate new chum! No doubt the prevailing orthodoxy around 1932 in fan chat letter pages was that we needed a coach with no experience.

On a more serious note, it wasn't long after 1932 that Melbourne dragged itself out of a malaise of 1 flag in over 30 years after securing a culture change by recruiting the top management from Punt Road Oval. Percy Page as CEO and Checker Hughes as coach. Richmond were a power team, and Hughes was a premiership player and coach. The rest was (a glittering) history.

Anyone for a modern parallel?

Tim, to an extent we tried this when ND was appointed. Danny Corcoran came in as footy manager slightly before and assistants at the time included Simon Madden (ruck coach and match day), David Flood(match day and development- worked with Fagan with the ressies) and a bloke by the name of Bernie Sheehy as chairman of selectors, who had been Kevin Sheedy's right hand man during the '80's. We brought a lot of Essendon's footy department across, although not the administration! If my memory serves me correctly, Madden, Flood and Sheehy were all gone within a year or two. Cameron Schwab had only recently been appointed as CEO and didn't last too long after the salary cap breaches.

Maybe it's time to have another crack!

In answer to the question How long should it take? Sheedy started with the Bombers in 1981 and had them in the GF in 83 and they won the flag the next year (and went back to back). Pagan took over the Roos in 1993 and after 3 consecutive finals series they won the flag in 96. Leig Matthews took over Collingwood in 86 and the Pies broke through in 90, and then had his first year with the Lions in 99 and they started their hatrick in 2001. Mark Williams was appointed at Port Adelaide in 1999 and they finally made it in 2004 (after a few McClelland Trophies) and Paul Roos took over part way through 2002 and the Swans saluted in 2005. Seems to me from this that if you haven't grabbed a flag within 3-4 years then chances are you won't. Worsfold got his in his fifth year, but could easily have won it in his fourth.

Incidentally, both Northey and Daniher had us in the GF in their third years in charge and that was as far as either of them got us. Although both were perhaps a little unlucky to run into arguably the two best sides of the last 40 years.

Hi all,

A new member to this forum but an oldish member of the mighty Demons. If you look at coaching appointments since Norm Smith, almost all have had their first senior coaching experience with the Club. The exceptions would be Barassi and Northey, who had a year with the Swans before we got him. Balme had coached in SA for a few years, but names like Ditterich, Jones, Ridley, Beckwith etc were all first timers. We had Bob Skilton for a little while who had some very unsuccessful experience as playing coach with South, but we have been a club that has tended to go for new talent. Intersting times ahead! For mine we want someone who'll instill a bit of steel - Voss may be the man, but of the experienced brigade I think Pagan may be worth looking at.