Dees2014

Even Essendon people acknowledge that Hird had such God-like status that he was untouchable and there were literally NO constraints on what he was allowed to do - not from the Board, not from the CEO, and certainly not from those advising him on medical issues. After all, two of Hird's supposedly greatest friends, the club doctor and the CEO, he was quite happy to betray in a vain effort to save his own skin. There was a culture of group think at Hird's Essendon which was dominated by Hird himself which was taken over by his sociopathic personality. It was inevitable it would implode. The club doctor merely became its most public victim.

They are not being protected. ASADA/WADA will get them in the end. These investigations always take time and this one is particularly complex. As Bing said, ASADA/WADA don't do deals, but they do work at their own pace and with limited resources. Those who see lack of an outcome as evidence of a conspiracy are barking up the wrong tree. All investigations of this type all over the world under the WADA banner are seen to be "too slow". Essendon will be hit eventually, but it may not even be this year. On a related matter, I was talking with someone high up in the Essendon hierarchy today, and even they are acknowledging internally apparently that the infamous club doctor letter to James Hird (which for a time was lost) expressing his concerns about the peptide program WAS in fact received by Hird. Apparently he put it in his pocket and didn't share it with anyone, presumably because it was inconvenient to his program of doping. If true, this alone should be enough to convict him. It would also ensure he never coaches again at the elite level.

The definition of a well run and sustainable Organisation is that the Leader can leave and it will still run like clockwork. Personally, I think it is a good thing PR is on occasions not there. Not doubt he and PJ will have people closely watching behaviors both of the coaches and players when he is not there. There were a couple of times he was not there before Xmas at training and when I was there at those sessions I thought there were some who did not go quite as hard. This I have not doubt will be noticed and noted, and fed back to those involved. The MFC has to get itself up to the elite level of performance where it is sustainable at all levels. This is just another test it will have to put itself through. If we were TOTALLY dependent on the leader then we would be nowhere near this level of performance. This is not to say PR is not critical to our success, because he is, but we need to build a team around him who can sustain the culture in his absence.

The crippling of Essendon will come from the fallout of the infraction notices: players suing the club and the AFL; likely court cases; intervention by ACCC (maybe) re have any Director's duties been breached (likely IMHO), Workcover, rulings re what to do about recruitment of additional players for new season and how this would effect current salary cap; Hird's re-in statement (or not). It will be pain for Essendon for years to come. Hird will never work in the Industry again.

I think your scenario is spot on WJ. This could happen I think fairly early in the new year, I would think before the season proper starts. It will cause chaos. Half the Essendon list will become intelligible and most of those will sue the EFC and the AFL. As I understand it, the relevant Player Agents already have this underway. It will then be tied up in the courts for months if not years throwing the legality of the whole competition into uncertainty. It will cost the AFL and most certainly Essendon untold damage for arrogantly fighting ASADA/WADA on this. There are also a number of unanswered questions arising from this: will Essendon be able to draft additional players from around the country to replace those with infraction notices? will this make their current contracts null and void and if it does, will Essendon keep one paying them? Even if it doesn't, will they keep on paying them? If that is so, how does this affect their current salary cap? how will they be able to fit the pay for their new signees under their salary cap if they have to pay those who were rubbed out, presumably also under the salary cap? how many players not with infraction notices, but having played during Hird's doping binge, will also sue for loss of reputation and misrepresentation when signing their last set of contracts? will the current coaching staff still be eligible to coach in the AFL? in the light of the millions this will cost Essendon, and their inevitable slide down the ladder as a result, how will they be able to afford the maintenance on their debt from their new state of the art training facilities? how will this affect the government, state, federal and local funding which was forthcoming to build it? Was this government funding actually legal in the light of these events? when will Worksafe get involved? and how long will it take for the ACCC to examine the criminal liability of the Board members during Hird's reign? All that should keep the AFL lawyers busy for years and years.Meanwhile, everyone in the AFL and its clubs will be seriously wounded as a result.

Well I think it is partly the old problem of loyalty of individuals in their system. The point I made yesterday on here is that the AFL is very tribal (e.g. where the Milne case was originally investigated by police officers who were Saints supporters, as I believe the Chief Commissioner was at the time, and the case was slowly shelved. New commissioner, eight years later, case re-opened, new trial) Robinson is chief football writer at the Herald-Sun, and a mad Essendon supporter, and has been peddling this Hird nonsense from the beginning to the extent apparently News HO is questioning his effectiveness particularly when News got no awards for one of the biggest stories for 2013 Drugs in Sport. As I understand it, Robbo's position is now under threat, and rightly so. He was not alone however. Apparently there is also some key editorial staff that is very close to Essendon at the Hun. On the other hand, Patrick Smith at the Australian (also part of the Murdoch stable) has been almost as feral as Caroline Wilson when it comes to this story, but perhaps because the Australian is not regarded as a major AFL paper he does not get the coverage. Finally, I understand the Essendon coterie is well connected in the media, particularly to senior Murdoch executives. There are always wheels within wheels in these things. All I can say is thank god for Fairfax - they are behaving like good news outlets should - go after the crooks and the charlatans without fear or favour. Indeed I think they are making it a key part of their value proposition and I think The Age in particular is a lot better paper because of it.

The fact is if you are going to clean up cheating in sport through gaining an advantage through doping (exactly what Hird was doing, however much his lawyers try to dress it up), then there must be a zero tolerance and NO-BODYgets off no matter how powerful, how well connected, and how much they can afford expensive QCs. This has been apparent in Olympic sports for about ten years now and I can understand why a number of Olympic athletes are extremely [censored] off by what they see as double standards when it comes to the AFL. I'm sure they will be caught in the end, but the nonsense which is peddled by the Murdoch press on Hird's behalf would make anyone without a reasonable knowledge of the situation seriously doubt it. The AFL and Essendon cannot be allowed to escape on this.

By the way this was not supposed to be a criticism of Bomber Thompson. You could argue he is the good guy in all this. He allegedly opposed the supplement program internally from the beginning at Essendon in the face of strong Hird backing, and has been impeccably loyal to Hird when he had many reasons not to be. My guess is Little persuaded him to take the job out of loyalty to Essendon and "helping them out in their biggest crisis" - that does not mean though that part of the negotiation would not have been some sort of guarantee that he would eventually get the job in his own right, and a recognition that this is likely to be sooner rather than later. Further, you could not believe that Little would not have had a direct and realistic conversation with Bomber about the likelihood of infraction notices being issued, the fallout from that, and what is their risk management strategy as a result. This no doubt would have included the question of what would happen to Hird and who would be his replacement.

Totally agree. He will have his risk management strategy well and truly worked out. In fact I know some people who are working as consultants in this area for Essendon and the AFL. Whilst they are very discrete, they are also very competent. They are also realists (unlike the money grabbing QCs Hird has hired). I have no doubt (although I am only guessing) Little is taking the stance he is because internally Hird is so popular. There is no point in picking a fight with that lot until the whole position becomes untenable, including the continuous employment of Hird. He will then have an excuse to facilitate a complete clean out of the Club. I bet also Bomber Thompson is in on this little scheme. There must have been some reason he suddenly changed his mind about coaching. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he is well aware Hird's days are numbered and he put himself in the position as his logical successor (with Little's help). From what I know of Little's business career this would be typical of him, and certainly the advisors I know would be well and truly capable of this sort of play.

The good part of it is that third rate media hacks at a rag like the HS will have zero effect on our selections and nurturing of young talent. We should all encourage more of this as it will hopefully lull our opposition into a false sense of security!!! Well - we can only hope.

Good post - agree with 100% of the above. What I don't agree with is giving Essendon any credibility at all, which some on here appear to do. I find it impossible to understand why anyone on here would give anyone at Essendon any credence whatsoever. They are the greatest lot of delusional whankers on this planet, who worship their own self-obssessed god/king and exclude any reason whatsoever. It is almost cult-like in its myopia. If PJ is criticized by that lot then he and we must be on the right track. The PJ/PR duo look like a winning team to me, and we have not been able to say that for a very very long time.

I'm a bit more cynical about this I'm afraid. In this town, allegiances to your football team seems to overcome common sense in many instances. Take St Kilda with the Milne / Montanga scandal. The investigating officer of the Victoria Police was a St Kilda supporter. Guess what happened? The case was quietly dropped until it was re- opened years later under a new Police Commissioner who wanted the laws to prevail (no doubt a Cllingwood supporter! Just kidding guys). I wonder where the football allegiances of the Executice/Board of Workcover sit. It would be interesting to know. The overall point though is this is why it is so important for a national boby like ASADA to be involved, and overseeing them an international boby like WADA where parochial interests can be over ridden by common sense. I know a lot of people dispute this on here when I go on about this, and they seem to think little Australia is irrelevant to the rest of the world in these matters. Well get with it guys - whether we like it or not, Australia is a world leader when it comes to sports, and that includes drugs in sport, both the good and the bad. We will not be allowed to let our sports off when it comes to governance in these matters. And rightly so.

I get the impression Roos wants that as well when he said in his latest revue video he would like the club tested sooner rather than later to benchmark where they are at. Either he is worried about the preseason hype developing or he is genuinely encouraged about the progress and would like to begin building confidence into this young group. I suspect (hope) it might be the latter.

No Jack. You are the Demonland realist and source of common sense - again! On top after three rounds I say!!!

It might look like that, but the record of WADA in these matters internationally has been a single minded pursuit of the truth, at least under the John Fahey regime, irrespective of the sensitivities of local sporting bodies, or even their local affiliates. I don't know of one instance where any local body has been allowed to "squib it", and the COAIS has had a very consistent record of mostly backing up the WADA position when it goes to appeal. I don't believe there is any room for Essendon, the AFL, or even Hird himself (through his posse of expensive lawyers) to "do deals". The train has left the station for them I'm afraid.

I am talking about WADA and their associates, and as far as control of doping in sport that IS the world. My contacts in their Organisations (and in this case I'm not talking about ASADA - my sources are European) tell me the Australian situation after the press conference in Canberra earlier in the year and the subsequent discussions at the WADA international conference in South Africa in October is well and truly on their radar. If you have better information, the best of luck to you.

We must remember the fate of Essendon and Hird is now out of the AFL's hands. WADA/ASADA will determine what comes next, and it won't be pretty. The AFL will have no control over this outcome The World is watching and they will not be allowed to squib it.

Not for long. Once this starts to unfold he will have about the same status as Lance Armstrong. Actually not a bad parallel. He was an incredibly revered figure, immensely successful and wealthy, incredibly self centered, but also fundamentally flawed by his own ego. Sound familiar? Hird will never coach again after this, and will be driven out of the AFL in disgrace. Sponsors will not have a bar of him in the future once the infraction notices are delivered.

Well technically that is true, but if ASADA advised the AFL to issue infraction notices and they refused it would be in breach of the agreement to live up to the WADA anti-doping code. The implications of that are that the AFL would then become an international sporting pariah - not a place they want to be when they position themselves as international best practice. The AFL will follow the ASADA code to the letter. Essendon are doomed no matter what Hird does.

Agree on Salem. In my observations behind goals, he was playing ball fetcher. He must be injured. He didn't look happy in this role, and from all we read about him he is a very intense trainer and somewhat of a perfectionist. Let's hope he joins the main group early in the new year. On Tyson, yes he does have an unusual kicking style but it does overall seem effective. He is also bigger than I expected. Likewise Vince - he is going to be twice as effective as Sylvia and hopefully much more consistent. Both Tyson and Vince I reckon will be major plusses for us next year.

Jack, totally agree. The article smacks for me of the same sort of legal hubris that has driven James Hird into the cul de sac he is now in. There is no end to the legal gravy train these guys are now on. They are under the delusion that legal technicalities will get these guys off. It is in the legal profession's interests to persuade the Hirds of this world that they can be saved by legal technicalities. They will perpetrate these myths so long as they can demonstrate hope for the guilty parties, and that the million plus fees rivers of gold will continue well into the future. ASADA will get them in the end, no matter how many tame lawyers write articles saying that it is all too hard for ASADA and they will all get off. They won't. And the longer they resist, the more severe the penalties will be in the end.

I dont think I said that the infraction notices and subsequent financial pain will force AD to resign. What I did say was that if this was to occur, then there would be a good case for the Commission to ask for his resignation, along with a few others. This is huge not only in Australian terms but globally. The AFL would be a laughing stock if they ignored those implications. They won't. They are too savvy an Organisation for that.

Jack, totally agree. We are on top of the WADA watch list. We cannot, and will not, fail in this. That is why Essendon is doomed.

Yes, I was there for most of the time. I agree with one or two other posters that perhaps the intensity was not there yesterday compared to earlier sessions. Not sure whether this was because of closeness to Xmas or Roos' absence - I hope and think it is the former. I don't think it is a good look if they only try hard when Roos is around. I spent most of the time behind the goals watching them kick for goals in groups of 7 or 8. This took the form of kicking from three different positions: one from the left forward pocket where they were required to snap over their shoulders from about 25m out; the same from the other pocket; and then finally kicking over a "dummy" (supposedly in place of the man on the mark) from about 30 meters out. My observation of this exercise is we still have a long way to go. I reckon their percentages were no better than 50% accuracy in this. Some were a lot better than others (notably Nathan Jones, JKH, Jeremy Howe, Riley). Some were abysmal (Colin Garland, Matt Jones), and others just average, including Jack Watts and Jesse Hogan which surprised me. The good thing was that all results were being logged by a trainer into a computer behind the goal, and so presumably further practice will be scheduled in due course. On today's performance it is very much needed. The good thing is it has been noted early in the pre-season so they can get it right by March. I also agree with the comments on here about JKH. Not only is he a great kick, but his intensity at the ball, his tackling, and his speed is very impressive. I think we might have found a bargain here. A quality small forward would round out the forward set up very nicely, and I think (hope) he will be ideal. One further observation I'd make is that Dermott Breretton turned up and watched the session for fully an hour. I have been to many pre-season training sessions for the Dees, and that is the first time I have seen a senior football commentator attend a session, unless there is an announcement to be made or there is some controversy running. Maybe I just have not noticed before, or maybe, just maybe, they might be getting the word that there are interesting thing happening down at Demonland!

It has done no such thing. As I said in my previous post, Australia is still regarded as a world sporting superpower on the back of long term success at Olympic, and Commonwealth Games, having teams ranked in the top six for ten to twenty years in rugby league and Union, men's and women's hockey and basketball, rowing, sailing, shooting, cricket, being in the top three consistently in cycling, swimming, horse racing, having top ten players in golf, tennis, squash, Formula 1 motor racing, winning major international tournaments like The US Masters in Golf, a Tour de France winner etc etc etc. Do you want me to go on further because I have hardly started with the list.... There are virtually no other countries with the consistency and diversity of performance across the international sporting landscape as Australia. The world takes notice of this because almost all countries lust after international sporting glory in one form or another, and they ask themselves if we can do it why can't they? I know because I lived and worked in Asia and Europe for over ten years, and mixed with business, government officials and diplomats and a consistent theme when they knew I was Australian was "what brings us our sporting success?" There are many reasons for it (not just money, as the POMS would have us believe), but those discussions usually turn into suggestions "to go and look for yourself to find out". It is the same advice our diplomatic corps and trade commissioners spread every day offshore, particularly following the outstanding success of the Sydney Olympics after which our trade in sporting services has just exploded. Many, many countries take up this advice and as a result we have a healthy trade in international sporting services, and related business such as design of stadia, consulting advice, legal advice, medical science, sports coaching of all kinds, technical expertise. One of the first questions which these people ask is what are the best examples of sporting excellence and expertise in Australia. At or near the top of the list are the AIS and the AFL, along with others such as the ASC, VRC, AOC, CA, NBL, and yes ASADA - our anti doping processes and systems, and institutions are still regarded as some of the world's best. Most people in Australia acknowledge the AFL as the powerhouse of the Australian sporting landscape and as such it is in very high demand so that others can understand how it does it. That is not going to change as a result of misbehavior from one team, and particularly one ego maniac of a coach. Our reputation and performance across the board is too well intrenched and of such quality as for that to be no more than a short term irritant.