Dees2014

I'll store this and send it back to you at season 's end OD. I think (from memory) you have been predicting between 12 and 16 for us this year. I bet I am closer than you!

From our current rucks, Max has the most potential. He needs to improve his ruck work and tank (misses at lot of training, is so often in rehab) but he is an outstanding mark up forward. Potentially a Paul,Salmon type. Now that would be something. He still has a way to go but I think he WILL be our number 1 ruckman in our next premiership

As I posted earlier in this thread, if hogan plays the next two games and plays well, then of course he will play round1. IMO from what I saw Thursday, I though we was a long way off both in fitness and form. I hope I am wrong. A fit and firing Jess Hogan would be very exciting. If his form and fitness is just mediocre though, I would ease him in via Casey rather than having him find form on the big stage like another of our gun 18 year olds. remember him? That Jack Watts fellow. Put him back three years by mishandling his introduction to the big time. Even some of the impatient bods on here might concede that may have been a mistake, and maybe, just maybe we shouldn't repeat it with Hogan. Or is that asking too much. In Roos I trust.....

To show real improvement we need to consistently win against lesser sides (Suns, Giants, Lions, Saints, bulldogs), win at least half our games against medium teams (North, Essendon, WC, Adelaide, Port, Tigers, Magpies, Carlton) and get beaten by no more than five goals by the elite (Geelong, Hawks, Swans, Fremantle) and maybe sneak one or two wins from them. That would be an excellent year and put us in the middle of the eight. There will be ups and downs of course and we will not achieve that level of consistency, but I have high hopes of bottom half of the eight. We do after all have a very favorable draw, and medium levels of improvement will show up in wins and better percentage quite quickly IMHO.

I agree Hogan will in the future but based on yesterday's game I don't think he does at the moment. I thought he looked unfit (which is understandable since he has been in rehab most of the pre season), so I'd ease him in via Casey. I'd also play Gawn as a forward ruck replacement - he was the best of the big men yesterday. An outstanding forward mark - he has displayed this at Casey on a number of occasions but this is the first time he showed it consistently in senior company to my knowledge. Hogan is not ready yet. Spencer is too unreliable, and makes too many basic errors. Roos clearly was still smarting after the game about his goal square error against Richmond ("Stopped our momentum dead"). Still, a pretty good forward line IMO, So my team would be: FB: Georgiou Frawley Dunn HB: Grimes McDonald Terlich C: Watts Tyson Vince HF: Toumpas Dawes Bail FF: JKH Fitzpatrick Howe R/R: Gawn N.Jones Trengove I/C: Michie Cross Blease Sub: Viney

WJ, Strangely enough, if you swap West Coast with Geelong, and Fremantle with Adelaide, I wouldn't be surprised it that is fairly close to the end of year ladder. We shall see !

Yes, and who would we rather have: Sylvia or Vince. There isno contest, not least because of the contrast in commitment to the club and the intensity around the ball. Vincecwill be fantastic for us, the guy we will build our mid field around. Colin is far from that league. Vince is amongst our best trades in five years.

Yes I think Viney will be ready to Yes I agree Viney will be ready to go round 1, but I doubt Hogan will. He looked a bit over weight and not fit enough right now. I cant see that being corrected in a month, let alone match fitness. Anyway I think letting him ease into AFL with half a dozen rounds at Casey (which he will dominate) sends a really good signal to the rest of the competition, one where we could well be 4:2 by then and in the eight. Bringing him in then and have him dominate would show we are a strong club with plenty of firepower. Of course if he has a dramatic form reversal in the next month, then I would certainly play him, but if he is just average, best to gain that form at Casey. We should not "do a Jack Watts" with him as I'm sure Roos has no intention of doing, as he has flagged often enough in his numerous comments on the topic pre season.

But Terlich will be the only one who will play round 1 IMHO. I think it will be: FB. Georgiou (who was again very good). Frawley Dunn HB: Michie. McDonald. Grimes

Based on today's form, I don't think they will play Hogan in round1, so Fitz definitely plays, with Jamar in the ruck and Max ruck forward pocket. Max was outstanding today marking in the forward pocket. (as was Fitz) but I would give him half and hour personal kicking for goal practice every training session. I counted five set shots within 25 metres of goal and I don't think he got any. Admittedly it was a windy day, but others such ascFitz and Dawes were pretty accurate including Fitzy kicking one of his famous reverse side of the boot from the boundary line about 40 metres out - his speciality! I am very excited about our tall men this year, max, Fitz and Dawes appear to be in very good form. hogan will get there but needs to be fitter and needs to find his form at Casey while he does it for maybe 6 weeks or so. Tom Mac down back is also just getting better and better. He is in for a terrific year as is Chip Frawley based on Friday's form.

Well I would go so far as if they want to associate with these people and insist in bringing them into the inner sanctums of Afl clubs (as both Martin and swan have done) then they have no business playing Afl. They are in a very priveledged position and are under constant gaze of the media. Martin in particular seems to think this gives him a license to publicise his criminal agenda. Under no circumstances is this acceptable. He is in effect using the billion dollar AFL publicity machine to promote his own perverse set of values, and in the process bring his gullible team-mates along with him. It is not on. There is no way the AFL should allow it, however much our middle class perceptions of a fair go and libertarian attitudes might tell us we should. These guys have no such scruples, and neither should we. Otherwise we surrender the right to exist and the right of the sport we love to survive. I'm sure there are many who think I exaggerate. I do not. We are contesting against totally unprincipled people. I value my liberty and way of life too much to allow them any room whatsoever.

I never thought I would say this but I agree OD. Dawes and Clark are an enticing prospect but I too am now starting to doubt whether they will ever get on the park together. I remember a post I wrote in November when I said after October training that Clark and Dawes will not appear fully fit until well into March and may be not even then. There were houls of outrage from the soviet on here, but it wasn't far off the mark ( unfortunately). Another issues, not really discussed on here today at at any length, was the very substandard performance of Hogsn today. He seemed to me to be unfit, and overweight. I doubt whether he will play round one. He shouldn't. He doesnt deserve it. Which I guess is what Roos has been saying all along. Those in form will play, those who are not wont - irrespective of their potential or reputation.. And I think that is a good thing

Yes it was interesting that the powers that be chose to play spencer and Gawn in the same side against King. Perhaps they had planned Jamar in the same side as king, but you would have thought there would have been a change at the last minute, king still impresses inspite of his age and maturity. A great pick up in the longer term IMO.

I know there has been a lot before but for what it is worth, my observations are the following: 1. Hogan at the moment is not fit for round one. In this I make no judgement on his long term potential, but from what I saw today (post quarter time) he got one mark, one goal and two touches for the whole match. He is not fit for round one. 2. It was a very windy morning, but the marking was outstanding: Fitz, Max, and Dawes were really exciting in taking marks inside 50. We saw on show what our gameplan will look like with a forward line. It was very exciting. I saw Robbo walk past as Max missed the third shot for goal after taking an outstanding mark and said "Robbo, teach him to kick straight". Yes I know - ROBBO. Max is an immense force, but he exhibited the dominance he showed at Casey today in the seniors. I do not understand those on here who minimize his influence in the medium term. 3. The forward line showed how we would shaped the gameplan today. It was great to watch. 4. The positives we saw against the Tigers, were reconfirmed again: JKH was brilliant, Blease shied encouraging attack (I even saw him get a free kick on the HF line, get up,and take off towards the boundary line - a much worse position - but we sort of knew what was happening. I also saw him tackle an apponent on the boundary line just in front of me ( literally two metres from me) and he crashed the opponent into the fence over the boundary line. It was not malicious, but it showed he had got the message about intensity. Good signs I would suggest. 5. Watts will be a star this year: he has so much time, so much skill, and the best kick at the club. He s.one will propell us into an elite midfield, 6. Jack Viney is underdone; I have absolutely no argument with his intensity, but he is not yet fit enough to deliver it, and 7. Tom McDonald is a star - enough said.

This has nothing to do with middle class niceties nor political correctness. It has everything to do with the integrity of sport. I will do EVERYTHING in my power to ensure the thugs of the local mafia, the Russian mafia, and the Chinese triads get NO traction in our society. If you are comfortable in them obtaining that then I will take you on as well. I have lived in Asia and Europe in senior business positions and have experienced first hand what these people do. They are not at all nice. I can tell you they see Australian sport as a prime target because it is so popular, Australians are so stupidly gambling oriented, and it puts them at the centre of society. They could not ask for a better formula! The number one target is the AFL, as it is the wealthiest, and most high profile sport in what is regarded as one of the most profitable sports markets in the world. I see an incredibly stupid complacency about this sort of thuggary in Australia to our great cost. I for one do not want to leave this legacy for my children. Maybe you do?

Well, not sure what the point is you are making, but having AFL footballers so publicly associating with criminal elements as Martin and Swan do is not only an appalling public image, but a nightmare for the AFL. It is for a very practical reason. Criminal gangs like to associate with sporting celebrities because it not only gives them "legitimacy" in the eyes of the public, especially the young, but also it creates a way in for corruption of the game to flourish which is what their ultimate objective is, and is the AFL's worst nightmare. This is an issue far beyond political correctness, and I personally am amazed any fan with the welfare of the game at heart could possibly think it was merely PC. If you don't believe me, look at international soccer, cricket, cycling, basketball, American Football, Field Hockey, rugby league where criminal elements see corruption of elite sports as a key growth area for illegal revenues. All have been at one time or other tainted by criminal activity associated with match fixing in one form or another. With the AFL getting deeper and deeper into the black hole of dependency on gambling revenues and its associated advertising support (and unfortunately the MFC is by necessity one of the worst examples of it), the potential for corruption only gets worse. To dismiss it as PC, is living in a very dangerous mind set indeed.

Footy certainly does not need known associates of criminal gangs, and players who display that in their public behavior, gangs who have been associated with extortion, gun running, murder and drug running. Especially in the case of Martin who seems quite happy to use the public stage of an AFL match to promote the bizarre ideas and values of such gangs.They are a disgrace, and so are Swan and Martin for proudly promoting their cause.

You can't, and that is surely the point. These players would have known by staying at a dysfunctional MFC under Neeld they were surely damaging their personal brands. It took incredible loyalty to stay. They will be rewarded under Roos (bigtime), but it was an act of faith, which could have easily come unstuck. Certainly the Board and the Executive neither had the competence or commitment to fix it. The AFL had to which is a terrible indictment on our football club

The point about Fitzy is he is essentially a forward/midfielder. He has elite speed so he can play as a midfielder, even on the wing. He also can play key position forward, as well as relief ruck. In short, a very versatile, albeit very large player. I personally think, as I have written elsewhere on here, that he will end up on the wing with Watts on the other. A nightmare match up for most teams. He will not play long term in the ruck except as a short term relief IMO.

Haven't you guys ever been in dysfunctional Organisations before? I have been involved in a number of corporate turn-arounds and the MFC in Bailey's and especially Neeld's time have all the hallmarks of an extreme version of one. A characteristic of these types of organisations is that they almost always contain talented people (usually at middle management level) who feel powerless to do anything about the situation. Usually they leave. High stall turnover is a classic sign of a business getting into trouble.We should be thankful that there was loyalty from such people as Watts, Trengove, Garland, Frawley which leaves us with a legacy around which we can build a team. Usually in turnaround work with good leadership, come much higher performance from these capable people in middle management. I have not double with the very capable leadership of Jackson and Roos we will see an unprecedented flowering of talent the likes of which we haven't seen since Daniher's reign. The people we should be pointing the finger at is the Board and the CEO. They are the culpable ones here. Not the footsoldiers. Their leadership and governance was a disgrace, and it required heavy AFL intervention to get it right. We are though now in for an exciting ride.

I agree: one gameplan, with a few variations. The point I was making was that it provides us with more options, but possession footy with defensive walls will be paramount. It is just we will now have a few ways to go into attack which will keep the opposition guessing while still making ball retention the number one aim. Roos admitted himself after the game Friday that the attack was a bit one dimensional through lack of big marking options, which in turn put more running pressure on the small forwards (hence their running out of puff at the end) It will be fascinating to watch it unfold. No doubt we will get a sneak preview on Thursday.

You could also argue that by playing Watts and Fitz on the wings, that it provides another avenue to goal over and above the keepings off, chipping looking for a space to open up which we saw on Friday night. Comming off half back, going to Fitz or Jack in a one on one situation, their size and skill will almost invariably result in a contested mark in their favour. to counter it would involve the opposition putting key position players on them which would weaken their defences in other areas, Whether by design or good fortune, the MFC has been left with unique advantages, none more so than our forward set up, and the presence of two very mobile and highly skilled big men who can play in a lot of positions on the ground. Yet another reason to be very optimistic about our future.

jack Watts, Fitz, Viney, Bleese

I prefer either: Howe. Dawes. Trengove JKH. Clark. Hogan OR Howe. Dawes. Hogan JKH. Clark. Fitzpatrick although the latter may be a bit top heavy inspite of Fitzy's speed and agility. Maybe we would be better off with the first option and play Watts and Fitz on opposite wings as I have advocated before on here. That configuration would be a nightmare for opposition sides to match up on particularly as both Watts and Fitz are so mobile. It might even change the modern game!

Very good post LG. very insightful. I think we are in for a good year .