Dees2014

Ehhh, Old Dee, it is called Leadership. Something about getting the best out of your list. And very typically Paul,Roos. Thank God. Communication is vital in this this. It is most definitely NOT cheap talk!

My understanding is that if they don't give evidence it actually helps ASADA/WADA case. As was said earlier in this post, it is up to ESSENDON and its players (and Hird) to prove their innocence as is the case in a lot of European law. Much of WADA's protocols have been constructed around Swiss law where this is the case. ASADA already has more than enough evidence from Charter and Alavi which is admissible in court to convict ESSENDON.

I think this is not a bad idea. He did play some terrific games for us, including almost single handedly executing our last finals win, against St Kilda I seem to remember. We do have a very young, and potentially very talented team, but we do lack seriously experienced heads, particularly in close games. It must worry the powers that be that we led in so many games last season in the last quarter but were too often beaten. This is largely about lack of experience, and on field leadership. McLean gives us a lot of this, much more than Cross IMHO. To me, this is a typical Roos ruse....if you pardon the pun!

There is nothing to say he can't still be an on-field leader, even if it is not in an official capacity. Surely though he will be elected to the leadership group. Vice Captain? My bet is either Bernie Vince or Chris Dawes. Both would be good choices. I know Bernie has had a bit of a "wild man" reputation, but I think he has been terrific for the MFC, and his experience would be invaluable for Jonesy. Chris Dawes is a hugely impressive and smart individual. I understand Eddie rates him very highly and sees him as holding key management positions at the Pies/AFL in the future, thereby putting his Law Degree when he eventually graduates to good use. Either way, we are in good hands.

The new boys group did a light training session separately under the personal attention of Shannon Byrnes. Petracca and Brayshaw look exactly the same as they did on television on draft day. Clearly good mates and Petracca's extrovert personality shines through even at training. The group of Brayshaw, Petraaca, Stretch, McDonald, and Neal-Bullen spent about 10 minutes doing stretching exercises and receiving instruction from Byrnes near the fence right in front of where I was. There appears to be good spirit between them all. Why wouldn't there be at their first AFL training session? I thought it interesting there was no interaction at all that I saw between that group and any of the other players. Clearly they will be on a special programme at least to start with. I thought it interesting that Byrne has been trusted with the mentoring role at least for now. Maybe related to his recent AFL experience. The concern I have is Max Gawn. Yet again he starts the pre-season off in the injured group, and had his right knee heavily strapped. He was doing circuits with Bernie Vince very impressively, but clearly not fit enough to join the main group. I think it is really important that he has a full pre season this time. I am a huge fan of Max, and he could be as influential on our rise up the ladder as Sandilands has been for Freo, but he has to get on the park fit and ready to go. There were times last season when he would have a good first 2 and a half quarters but seriously run out of gas for the last, and I seem to remember this coincided once or twice with our being over run in the last quarter after being in front. We can't do this again in 2015. Does anyone have any info on what is the problem this time?

I interpreted this thread to be talking about the team in 2015 ie the best team in 2015, not the best team for round one ( there have been several treads for that). I believe our star kids will be in the best team: Cross will be about to retire, Bail will be in the 2s (he is not in the same class as either Brayshaw or a fit Toumpas), and I believe Salem is a class above Kent. Otherwise, why do we improve our list every year? By the second half of the year, all these kids will be flying. I have never said they should play round one, although I think Brayshaw might be a strong possibility to do so.

I don't get why these teams exclude Brayshaw (all the pundits say he is ready to go and dominate) and Salem (who at last is fully fit. We forget what a wonderful player he was when he was fit). I would leave out cross and Kent for those two. They are both back ups IMHO. And I would play Toumpas (a class act when fit) for Bail (another backup).

Yes , I agree. Trenners at his best, with maturity, is an a-grader. And an inside mid, who can mark and kick - now there's a change! If he can get back to full fitness (admittedly a big if), he will be in the half dozen first picked. He is a potential match winner and born leader. You don't throw those people out. I suspect a trade was contemplated this year due to his on going injury concerns. By staying on the list, we have 12 months to get that right. It may yet pay off in spades. I for one would be delighted, not only because we would get back a class player, but greatly strengthen the leadership on our list, and also reward loyalty, when others showed so little of it, and you all know who I am talking about!

And Robinson is just the sort of compromised journo to deliver the good for them. Still it won't make any difference, they are stuffed either way.

Bring it on I reckon. Once Eddie and the boys start thinking how to stop us, it just means we are a threat. I hope all the born to rule mobs at Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton pay us their undivided attention trying to stop us. We would have arrived at last...

No matter what Robinson might do as chief advocate for Hird and Little (why is Robinson still in his job when he has zero credibility in the football community outside Essendon) it won't save Little or Hird, or the rest of the EFC board if it comes to that. The above article just recycles the litany of excuses the Little regime has been pushing since the coup against David Evans who was working towards a settlement which would have seen this debacle settled 18 months ago. Little is delusional - everyone apparently is to blame except himself and James Hird. The football end for them is nigh, and not a moment too soon.

Here here. Well said Sir John Dee. I don't know where Qwerty gets his information from, certainly not from any credible indusrtry source. He appears to pluck it from thin air, laced with a considerable amount of personal abuse. Still it takes all types on the Internet I guess.

It does. Either the ESSENDON board thinks it is above any semblance of good governance (certainly major players in an organisation guilty of this sort of behaviour would have been shown the door long ago by any board I have had anything to do with), or there is something more to it. You in the past WJ have suggested Hird remains at the EFC for now as they work out his severance arrangements. It seems to be a long process, and the fact Little had the nerve to say publicly last week how fantastically the current EFC board has performed over the last few years just beggars belief. They really do live in an unreality. Alternatively, as I have suggested on here in the past there is more too it than meets the eye, and Hird has something over them all. Personally, I think there is a strong case of neglect of Director's Duties here, and we might just get to that after ASADA/WADA , CASA, the various national and international courts, and Worksafe have done their things. There is still a very long way to go in this.

ASADA don't take it to CAS - WADA do, and they are far more likely to be independent. This is far too important for them to relent.

Although the AFL will bring down the initial penalty, if WADA doesn't like it they will appeal to CAS and likely get it over turned. I agree the AFL would love to have this whole mess go away, but it won't happen. There are greater international forces at work fortunately.

Old Dee, there is no compulsion in reading this. If you think it has gone on too long - don't read it. It is simple really. There are a lot of people who believe it is the most important thing in football at the moment - potentially could change the whole economics of the game. Some of us think that is not only interesting,but important. For those like you and Demoneyes, you presumably think the latest on Hogan's back is more interesting. Go for it, leave it to others to address issues effecting the future of football.

Quite lucifer. Well spotted!

Scapegoating of one person? Now you can give ME a break. My major beef with Hird is that he instigated the cheating, and when he was found out, HE not only protested his innocence, but the contested everything in the courts and elsewhere. If he had have done what Evans, the AFL , and his PR advice at the time was suggesting this would have all been over by the end of 2013. Instead, he and his sociopathic wife sought to contest the obvious, and has prolonged it quite unnecessarily, and now look like taking it into 2016 and beyond. Hird is responsible for this - no one else. What will happen though is the ESSENDON board, the players, staff and supporters will be the victims. Hird will retire quietly with his millions, leaving victims all over the place. I have previously written, that Hird will be penalised, as will the players and staff. The EFC will go into liquidation after they are hit with writs from all and sundry. They will survive as a different entity but still under the EFC name, but a pale imitation of their former selves. If you think this is scapegoating one person, you are the only person who would think that. Hird, the board, the players are all in one way or another responsible, but Hird was the instigator and therefore should bear the major portion of the blame. He will survive, but not as coach, but many of his victims will be scared for the rest of their lives. You clearly think he is a scapegoat. Well you clearly have very different values to me.

The Cronulla issue is easy to answer: their drugs regime lasted weeks not years, it was not systematic, and did not seem to have the clear purpose to systematically cheating the way ESSENDON did. They also admitted guilt and did not fight the charges every inch of the way like ESEENDON. It was a very different program. The one thing WADA does not take kindly to is obstructionism and obfuscation. Both these things ESSENDON did systematically.Hird gets life under the precedence set in other sports and other jurisdictions. There are plenty of parallels. I did not cover Thompson and Reid in my comments, but I rather think they will be treated a lot more leniently than Hird. After all they both raised doubts about the program several times during its execution but these were dismissed by Hird as being "negative". The players get a longer than standard sentences because the players association have been in lock-step with the EFC in their obfuscation. I admit a few broke ranks and they may go for as little as three months. Cooperation will be rewarded in these things. Whispering Jack covered the Worksafe issue far better than I could (as he so often does). Worksafe in my view poses a far greater threat to the survival of the EFC than WADA.. I would suggest the investigation has not started yet as they (Worksafe) are waiting for the investigations of ASADA to be completed as much of their evidence will be drawn from their successful persecution. This to me at any rate makes sense. At the end of the day, these are all a matter of opinion based on the evidence available. There are no right or wrong answers. I am very confident though, from what I am hearing from those who should know, that these views will be proven pretty close to the mark . We will see what happens, albeit not as quickly as many would like.

Indeed!

They won't. Even if the afl, federal government, ESSENDON, even ASADA want a light sentence (and all of then, with the possible exception of ASADA surely do), it won't happen. That is what WADA is for, ensuring the international drug laws are enforced everywhere where countries and organisations have signed up to their protocols. And they have on numerous occasions, and usually won by appealing the Court of Arbitration in Sport (CAS). Australia, and the AFL will be no different, except this is one of the few cases when the club concerned has blocked and obviscated the investigations every step of the way, which has surely ensured then a much higher sentence than they might otherwise have expected will be handed down. I'm tipping life for Hird, and four year bans for the players. They are cooked, and deserve to be so. I know everyone on here are impatient for this to happen. The bad news for them is this has a long long way to run. Sentences will be handed down, WADA will deem them inadequate, it will go to the CAS, they will re- open the cases, then over turn the AFL's light sentences, From here the only source of appeal is to the Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland (their equivalent of our High Court). In the few occasions this has happened they have nearly always been about procedural matters, and have never succeeded, but I'm sure this won't stop Hird's legal team from trying. It is a nice place Switzerland - I'm sure they would love a mid winter sojourn. I'm tipping this will not end until mid 2016. Then there will be the Workcover investigation, which will result in severe criminal sanctions on the ESSENDON hierarchy including the board, which will in turn I have no doubt end up in the High Court of Australia.. Then there are the coming court cases stemming from various players legal actions against ESSENDON and the AFL. This will be as long as "Blue Hills" and twice as entertaining. The only ones to benefit from this will be the lawyers, as always.

I think it while ultimately be taken out of the AFLs hand. WADA through COAIS will determine it IMHO. From any other bodies, there are just too many vested interests and conflicting agendas to get a fair outcome in line with WADA rules.

There is nothing new here. Dank has been saying this from the beginning but refuses to confront ASADA, or the AFL for that matter for cross examination. He says he wants his day in court but refuses to testify in all the cases up until now. Personally, I much prefer the very thorough ASADA/WADA process than anything Dank says. If you were in his shoes, wouldn't you continually plead innocence, particularly if he is not compelled to testify.

They are also generally good judges of talent as can be seen by their results. If they can make him into a star, then it is just further evidence of our incompetence in the last 5 years. I, for one, suspect they just might.....

I'm not sure the angst here. The HS named them all in an article about 9 months ago - it is public knowledge. It was about Matk Robinson's only exclusive in this whole affair, and done with very dubious journalistic ethics.