Dees2014

We have moved a long way from that. The players are condemned by the actions of their club and their refusal to takes responsibility and their determination to maintain "a united front" ie not admit guilt of any description, while maintaining a relentless propaganda campaign again ASADA/WADA. I can tell you the guys in Switzerland are very much aware of the mischief making of Hird and Little. It will not be forgotten when they make their case to CAS and the sentences are handed out. Unfortunately, the players have been appallingly badly advised on this, and will pay a very very heavy price, duped by the sociopathic personalities of the Hirds and Little. They will have nowhere to hide when we do eventually get a resolution.

WJ, This to me explains a lot. I could never quite understand why News took such an uncompromising stand on ESSENDON because in marketing terms there is nothing in it for them. Sure they make EFC tragics happy, and I suppose it is news of sorts, albeit very biased news, but by taking such a partisan view of ESSENDON, you are just pissing off the the 17 eighteenths of the rest of the AFL supporters. Understanding Thompson's background makes it all fall into place. Rupert wouldn't give a stuff about AFL so RP can have a free hand to be Hird's propaganda machine. He hasn't held back. Fortunately at the end of the day it won't make any difference, but it sure keeps us Demonlanders busy!!

All of the Murdoch stable with the very honourable exception of Patrick Smith of the Australian, who has been consistently "on the money" on this issue.

Yes sports journalism has certainly been under scrutiny, but there have been a few who have been truly outstanding in the best interests of excellence in sports reporting eg Caro and Patrick Smith. There have also been some truly awful examples of either highly naive (Gerard Whateley) or simply ignorant and unprincipled (Tracy Holmes) or simply biased (Mark Robinson). I think what it has shown is the sloppiness and laziness of a lot of our so called gun sports reporters. They certainly show no inclination to seek the truth, with the honourable exception of the two mentioned above, and when you have some appreciation of what is really going on, their sloppiness and bone ignorance is truly amazing. They appear more mouth-pieces of PR agencies than professional journalists.

Sure BM, am happy to. My sources are legal, media, what I can broadly call regulatory, and from sporting administration. The best sources though by far are from sporting regulatory ones, particularly offshore. I hesitate to be specific, but as I have said a number of times on here, the world is watching us on this issue. It is regarded by powerful figures in the international sporting regulatory circles as a test case. Basically, they say if the sporting establishment in Australia get away with this anyone will get away with anything. A lot of us don't understand that in politics we are a middle power, but in sports we are a superpower, and have been seen up until three years ago as a beacon for common sense and integrity. The forces for good offshore hope this will remain to be the case, but regard Essendon as the test. They cannot believe Hird's behaviour has been tolerated for so long, and that Essendon has allowed itself to be consumed by this particular black hole. I might also add if you piece together all the threads going back several years you are able to draw your own conclusions. I obviously have an interest in these sorts of things, and so far have been pretty close to the mark. It remains to be seen I suppose, but my legal sources would be amazed if either Hird or Essendon got off on the actions in which they are currently involved. By the way, all of them say Tania Hird is a serial offender on these sorts of issues - a junior lawyer put into the spotlight by marriage and seemingly unable or unwilling to get out of it. Does that help?

Just another ESSENDON plant. A well tried strategy - get a biddable academic, pay him a lot of attention, and then get him to say publicly what you want him to say. Same tactic as the tobacco industry uses and the fossil fuel industry in trying to discredit climate change. The Hirds probably thought their campaign had been a little too quiet over the last couple of weeks. No one can say they aren't at least transparent, at least to those who have observed these strategies in other spheres.

Watched the replay of the Adelaide game from last year on Foxtel the other night - Grimes was SENSATIONAL. We forget what he is like at his best. Let's hope Roosy and the staff get the best out of him all year after a full pre-season and without the burden of captaincy. I have no doubt he has the ability to be an A-grader. Let's hope he finally realises it this year.

Go Maxy! If fit at last, he will be a star I have no doubt, and crucial to our finals ambitions.

Maybe we are at last seeing a realistic so Dons fan - an oxymoron I know!

My sources confirm this, particularly that this reaches into politics,financial circles and other sports. Horse racing is rotten to the core, and there are many "racing personalities" big in AFL. As I have said before on here, there is a lot more to come out about the political, financial even criminal connections in this saga, and it won't be pretty.

Wouldn't count on it. This will not be Cronulla. Essendon's opportunity for that passed long ago, essentially when Hird and Little rolled Evans. As soon as it became adversarial with ASADA, they cooked their goose. We have a way to go.

Part of the reason is that the major journalistic proponents in this are still on holidays, but mostly it is the lull before the storm. Coming up is the decision on the hird court action, I understand in late January early Febuary, and then the decision from the AFL Tribunal on the player infraction notices. This will come sometime preseason, but may even extend into the season start. You would expect the AFL would like this out before the season starts, but even then I don't think it will stop there. I think there is every likelihood this will be appealed to CAS by WADA - how long that would take is anyone's guess, but maybe even much of the season

This is exactly what Essendon's strategy is: delay as long as possible, complain loudly about the length of time it is taking via their cabal of tame journalists, and then blame ASADA for the delays, and hope everyone will get bored and it will all go away. Exactly the same strategy was pursued by Armstrong and his army of lawyers in the US: it eventually got him nowhere, as this will with Hird. ASADA/WADA will be vindicated here too. By the way I have been predicting for some time on here that some personnel on here will get more than 2 years, incLuding Hird getting life. A number of my fellow Demonlanders thought this was fanciful. Armstrong got life in all sports: so will Hird, although not through the AFL tribunal system who are responsible for handing out local penalties. It will come via the WADA appeal to COS in Switzerland some time later. We have a way to go here yet. The local penalties will be far from the end of it.

I am certainly not singling out Labor politicians in this. For heavens sake, the current conservative federal government is hardly a bastion of even handedness when it comes to favouring their political mates (eg policies on climate change, education reform, media regulation and funding, Lords and Dames - need I go on?) What I am saying is that particularly State Government politicians often favour historically their parochial personal interests. This applies to both sides of the aisle unfortunately. The "Spring Street Bombers" is not a Labor lobby group, and has powerful members from both sides of the House including Louise Asher, ex Liberal Innovations Minister, Justin Madden, ex Labor Planning Minister, Hugh Delahunty, ex Liberal minister for Sport, and of course Andrews himself. No doubt all of those people have the same myopic view of the EFC as we see every day from all the ESSENDON supporters we all know. Why wouldn't we believe that they would not reflect that in their political activities. Worksafe is directly governed and regulated by the State Government it is therefore at the centre of State politics. All I am saying this is a strong test for the integrity of the Andrews Government given the Premier's very strong personal interest in the subject, and subject to all the propaganda which has come out of his club for the last three years. I hope he doesn't fail the test. On the subject of the Fairfax Press condoning interference, the sad part is we probably would never know whether there is political interference or not, although of all media outlets Fairfax has the best record of going after corruption and dodgy practices. One of the things I admire about Caro is she goes after back room deals and corruption no matter who it is, of whatever colour. And that is the way it should be.

I know he has to stay right out of it, but the question is will he? This is totally different from ASADA/WADA, WADA in particular is a totally independent body completely divorced from the Australian mainstream. Worksafe (Vic) is not. The pollies can and do interfere with it as is their wish. My bet is that Andrews will kill the investigation into ESSENDON stone dead. Any political fallout will be minor compared to his hero status at EFC. I know Worksafe is supposed to be independent, but given the behaviour of the building unions and what they have been able to get away with under previous Labor Administrations, I wouldn't count on much independent action. WADA will prevail. No credit to anyone in Australia though except the outstanding work of ASADA.

It is one thing to be against Hird's return (most of the more astute Essendon powerbrokers are) it is another thing entirely to support appropriate and substantial penalties on players, management (including Hird) and Directors. They will all fight to the death on that one. The question is - will Andrews?

I'm not suggesting they would completely outsource their investigation. They operate under different rules and for different reasons than ASADA. What they will do though is to use the evidence gathered by ASADA to help build their case one way or other against ESSENDON and Hird on the issues of conducting and overseeing an unsafe workplace. They will also conduct their own enquiry which will use different methodologies than ASADA and will be a completely different exercise to the one conducted by ASADA. Even the internal EFC investigation stated they were conducting a "pharmacological experiment" (or words to that effect) on players. If that isn't an unsafe work environment I don't know what is. It also results in outcomes far more sinister for individuals than the ASADA investigation would do (fines, suspensions versus fines and jail terms), and also more specifically targets the management of organisations, particularly when it comes to penalties. . It will be interesting to see whether the new Premier Daniel Andrews (a life long ESSENDON supporter and I think I am right in saying is current President/Chairman of the "Spring Street Bombers", a cross party parliamentary lobby/supporter group set this year by Paul Little in the Victorian parliament) will seek to influence a Victorian Worksafe investigation into this debacle.. No doubt Little and the AFL will be lobbying him hard to do so, and will be a very good test of his leadership.

For mine, our best forward half would be: Petracca Hogan. Gartlett Gawn. Dawes. Howe Watts should be on the wing. Brayshaw in the midfield. Immeasurably better front half than this year.

rKent is backup at best for mine.

And that is the point. They have been very discrete apart from time to time reaffirming their charter which is to prosecute unsafe work practices and to outline the severe penalties which are proclaimed in the Act. These to me anyway, always seem to coincide with some of the most outrageous claims made by the Hird PR machine by his tame journalists. You cannot but wonder what the coincidence is. For me they are making a very strong point: that is when the time is right they will act under the statute, and act decisively. That I think is why ESSENDON and Hird have been so uncompromising, because they know full well what is in front of them should they be found guilty by Worksafe. You hate to think what barbarity might go on in Barwon Prison should James be locked up alone and friendless. It explains a lot of his seemingly irrational actions.

Strongly agree. Worksafe is behaving very astutely IMHO. They will come in with a killer blow when all the grandstanding has been exhausted. I am constantly amazed from the comments on here how people constantly look for conspiracy theorist behaviours from official bodies. Mostly they have behaved with considerable integrity, unlike the conspiratorial hird crowd. The contrast is considerable.

This might be AFL rules, but it won't wash with WADA. I know people will instance the NRL, but this was a very different case, and even then WADA were [censored] off about it. ESSENDON Is a much clearer case of seeking to cheat through drug taking over an extended period. They will not get off. And neither should they.

I suggest you look at the myriad of cases around the world WADA and its affiliates have been associated with if you don't believe it. I am constantly amazed on this site (though I shouldn't be I know) that there seems to be a naivety about the economics of this process. There is no bottomless pit when it comes to legal investigations (unless you are James and Tania Hird, and Essendon). WADA and their affiliates like ASADA and USADA will conduct investigations as thoroughly as possible, but also as cost effectively as possible. They do not have limitless resources, unlike some of the people they investigate. Isn't it logical therefore that they take the evidence gathered by trusted authorities, and use this to build a case against the accused. This is clearly the case for Essendon. It will therefore take time. Hird and his gang constantly throw at ASADA how long they take to try and discredit them, while at the same time doing everything possible to slow up the processes in the courts, but it won't wash. They will get them in the end.

If they are found guilty at the tribunal, then in my understanding they would normally be rubbed out immediately from any further participation in AFL although based on the decision for the International Rules game, then the AFL may choose not enforce it. I have no doubt this sort of action by the EFC and the AFL would heavily influence WADA taking action in COS in Geneva. It would simply indicate that the AFL are not really serious about penalties in this case.

Totally disagree. Worksafe will wait for the process to complete, there is nothing in it for them to replicate ASADA & WADA investigations. They will use them to achieve their prosecurions as they should do. We have to be patient, the process will get Hird and his sociopathic crew.