Dees2014

Not sure that is entirely true. She was onto this story long before the Fairfax Investigative Team got hold of it. True, McKenzie extracted information out of Dank which no-one else was able to, but Caro has been a crusader about this from the beginning often in the face of undisguised hostility from the "AFL boys' club". But then again, that is nothing new for Caro.

I think credit should also be given to Caro and Patrick Smith in this saga, both of who have doggedly gone after the truth, when I am sure, at least in Smith's case, he would have got less than full some support from the powers that be at News Ltd.

As I said earlier I think it is an open question now whether ASADA moves on Hird. In my view their statement post the ruling does not necessarily preclude them issuing further infraction notices on Hird and others from the regime (I think they should as the promoters and instigators should be prosecuted and punished - more so than the players). In any case I have no doubt a number of players will take legal action against Hird, and the damages could well be in the $millions.

The stance taken by Paul Marsh, head of the players association, on the Essendon verdict, dramatically illustrates why this organisation is about as dysfunctional as Essendon itself. The Association is supposed to look after the interests of ALL AFL players, yet it has consistently pursed through the the last three years the interests of the Essendon 34 instead of championing the health of the AFL's entire playing group. I can think of no more important industrial relations issue than ensuring all employees have a safe work environment, yet in spite of Essendon's being condemned by WorkSafe and indeed being heavily fined for it, and CAS condemning it as being unsafe over a two year period, the AFLPA chooses to condemn these judgements and takes no stance about workplace safety in general, or the disgrace of the EFC's behaviour. Further, shouldn't one of the primary roles of the organisation dedicated to the welfare of the players be to ensure that the AFL fields a fair competition. Instead Marsh has said nothing about a doped up Essendon in 2012/2013 creating an UNFAiIR playing field, thereby substantially affecting the welfare of the players from the other 17 clubs. Nothing could illustrate more dramatically how out of touch the AFLPA is when yesterday Marsh called for the AFL to abandon its support for the WADA code. The implications of this action would be the AFL players would have no internationally sanctioned protection and enforcement of safe work places, and would have to rely on the imperfect and dysfunctional rules of the AFL, in much the same way as the American NFL do who operate outside WADA rules. This is not altogether unrelated to the fact that there are scandal, after scandal after scandal in the NFL, usually related to unrestricted drug use. It should not be something the AFL should aspire to. It is about time the AFL players of integrity stood up to Marsh's regime. What was it about "what happens when good men do nothing........."? Scandals like Essendon occur that's what, with catastrophic results, not least for the players.

I seem to think, OD, that was your standard response when I and others were suggesting infraction notices would be issued against players, then WADA would appeal against the AFL Tribunal decision, then CAS would find against them. In all instances, I, and others like BB, WJ, Ted Fidge, and Chris were proven to be correct, In my case in the face of quite vitriolic criticism by certain on here both through posts, and more particularly through quite personally abusive emails (you know who you are - not you OD: your contributions have been sceptical, always polite and often very droll).

Because the people primarily responsible for this monstrosity need to be punished. Hird was the originator and principle promoter of this program, in my view far more responsible for it than any of the players, but to get to him there first needed to be proof that the violations actually occurred. Now that that has been established, it is imperative that those truly responsible are tried and punished.

Having now found time to read the complete judgement, and read most of the posts on here, I have to say what a fine job CAS have done, together with WADA/ASADA in all this, especially McDevitt who held the line in spite of incredible vitriol and personal abuse. It also shows large sections of the Australian Press and the AFL in an extremely poor light. CAS/WADA investigation was clearly very thorough, and to have it all laid out in such stark reality, just demonstrated how scandalous it all was. In the end they had no choice about the verdict and the penalty. The question is what next. No doubt there will be a parade of legal action from all sides which will keep the courts busy for some time and leave Essendon, the AFL, and indeed the game itself very much worse off than it would have been had Hird fallen on his sword in 2013. Whether WADA/ASADA now move against Hird is an open question. I know in the comments post the judgement ASADA said this case is now closed, but that could simply mean the case against the players is now closed and not open to further appeal. It does not necessarily preclude further action against Hird and others. In any case, I think it is possible that at least some of the offended parties will launch legal action against their former coach.

Yes like it doesn't affect Hird, Reid.....NOT.

It is the attitude here from Goodwin which worries me. Clearly he believes it is ok personally to take performance enhancing drugs, which very much fits into the Hird credo, who has been taking them for years through his long term friendship with Charters. The question I have is how far does this philosophy go. Both Hird and Goodwin have demonstrated by these actions that they are not unfamiliar with obtaining and using performance enhancing drugs. Is this the sort of mindset that we want in our coach who we hope will take us into a new golden era. You couldn't imagine highly disciplined and perfectionist coaches like Clarkson or Lyon having such slack and dodgy personal habits and thoughts. I know people on here do not like me saying this, but why was any of this not uncovered by the MFC in their supposedly extensive due diligence, or worse still, did they simply ignore it?

Surely the point here is under the WADA code it is the players personal responsibility to monitor and consent to what they swallow. This is drummed into every athlete who plays under the WADA rules at regular occasions throughout their careers. They cannot then turn around and say they did not know what they were taking. If that were the case and they still took it, they are very clearly guilty under the WADA code. The rules are very clear: if the information is not given to them before they take anything no matter what it is, it is the individual players responsibility to refuse to take it. If it subsequently turns out to be an illegal substance, then they cannot then say they didn't know as they are doing now. It is of course Richard Young's job to establish that CAS can be "comfortably satisfied" that it was an illegal substance, but that is a the level of proof at CAS which is much lower than was applied at the AFL Tribunal if past CAS cases are anything to go by.

Why would it be an AFL cover up if all parties (including ASADA) accepted the settlement? What they didn't accept though is that Hird and Reid should remain. They are the real guilty parties here. Life bans for them, and I would be quite happy, although many of you here would like Essendon obliterated from the face of the earth I understand that. Now though, after all the game playing and obstruction, I think the book should be thrown at them. They deserve nothing less.

Oh I think they all should have accepted the 2013 settlement. I think it would have been the most satisfactory outcome all round. It was supported by ASADA, the AFL, the Federal Government, the ASC, Essendon (under Evans) and was strongly pushed by the league's crisis management consultants at the time under their current PR Director Liz Lukin who was responsible for most of it anyway. The only problem was that Hird had to admit guilt and resign, but his sociopathic personality and that of his wife could not bring themselves to do that. The fault lies with both Essendon and the AFL, who simply were too weak to force him out - a monumental deficiency in corporate leadership and competence which does no-one any credit.

BB, they have - his name was David Evans, and he not only got rolled by Hird, but had a breakdown as a result. He still is the only honest one amongst the whole sorry and unprincipled bunch.

Happy to, but frankly have a full day at the office. Will try to when I get time.

All I can say there are about a dozen key turning points in this saga all of which were speculated about on here and about which I have written extensively. Check the record for yourself if you don't believe me. I won't bore you all be listing them, but I am happy to stand on my record.

Yes a business acquaintance of mine claims to know him very well and says the threat to take the AFL to court was all bluff. The Essendon hierarchy all knew what position they were in and Hird, Reid and co. just tried to bluster their way out of it. And are still doing so.

My only interest is that the players are found guilty so that then they can go after Hird and his cheating crew. Without a guilty verdict for the players, that will not be possible. I don't care what penalty the players get as long as they are found guilty. After that, WADA/ASADA can nail the real guilty parties.

I think what we will get is a considered view from the CAS arbitrators as to what they think DID go on, and from that there is every likelihood there will be suspensions. That to me will be enough, so long as it is also followed by infraction notices and hopefully suspensions of the real guilty parties, Hird and the Essendon hierarchy.

Well you asked me what my assertions were based on. I told you. If you didn't want to know, don't ask. Why is that a put down? It is just a fact...

My sources. Which have earn pretty spot on so far - or haven't you noticed? I have every confidence in them. Can you show me yours?

No Stuie, but read my posts and others like BB and WJ on this subject going back three years if you don't believe some of us were warming the consequences of Hird's behaviour, and the dangers of dealing with Essendon. But then again, I'm sure you will not bother - it might open your closed mind.

You a club official Reims? I'd imagine they would be pretty peeved at the pounding they are taking on here and other sites for their naivety in going after anyone associated with Essendon during the Hird regime. Still I guess they are no different from the majority of the AFL industry who just thought the all-powerful AFL would make it all go away. Some of us knew better. You can be as peeved off as you like about me and others pointing that out, but it doesn't make it go away. The risk management at the club should have been far more sophisticated than that, and since it wasn't it may cost them considerably both on the playing and coaching side. Clearly you are quite comfortable with this.

Macca, if they are found guilty I think it is more than likely the coaching, medical and some administrative staff will be issued with infraction notices by ASADA. Their (ASADA/WADA) main game are the perpetrators, but they have to establish that banned drugs were taken (ie by the players) before they can move against the main culprits. This is just the first round.

All the club has said about Goodwin's appointment is that references were done and he was checked out with authorities. I assume this meant the AFL - hardly an authoritative source if I can put it that way. The last thing they will say is that "don't recruit him in case of a CAS trial" especially when they later said they were blindsided by WADA's appeal to CAS. For them to flag anything but business as usual to other clubs about Essendon, potentially puts all of their scheduling, trading fixturing and media right in jeopardy - it ain't going to happen. What I will say though is where were the legal hard heads who were supposed to be looking after the MFC's interests. AWOL I would suggest, or simply incompetent!

I would suggest WADA. One of their judicious leaks. Put the scares right up the Hird/EFC camp- they are rightly [censored] themselves