Lucifers Hero

4 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

If we do want Billings today then surely we delist Kye Turner and move Melksham to the rookie list?

That would then give us 3 list spots for the draft, is that correct?

We don't need to delist Turner or even move Melksham to the rookie list.

My figures are based on maintaining the 2023 mix of 36 senior spots and 6 A rookie spots.  But notice that we are allowed up to 38 senior players and if we had 38 we would then cut back the A rookie spots to 4, to stay within the max 42 allowed.

Usually we max out the rookie spots as a portion of their contract $ is not included in the sal cap.  Having said that if we get Billlings we will probably make Melksham a rookie.  The Turner decision would then stand alone.

Updated for McAdam trade and have assumed a 3 year contract:

We have 4 list spots.  On last year's mix that is 2 senior and 2 A rookie spots but that mix can easily change.  Melksham's status will probably be decided in the next few days.  We can create two more list spots by not renewing K. Turner's and Montz-Wakefield contracts but I'm not suggesting that should happen.

In terms of draft picks we will use one to promote Turner ie #93 or whatever it is on draft night.  We will need a pick for Brown if we take him but imv it is unlikely to be an existing pick; more likely one traded in on or before draft night.  We might end up splitting #42 for a current and a future pick like we did last year, on draft night.

We also hold a full suite of future picks and an extra F3 pick which means we can trade our F1 and have flexibility with the other picks.  I'm not expecting Sydney and Bulldogs to fare so well next year so their future picks come in quite handy.

On 16/10/2023 at 15:27, deejammin' said:

Can Melksham be offered a rookie contract similar to what we did with Mitch Brown a few years ago or have the rules changed?

Yes, he can be rookied.  My guess it will depend on how many picks we take to the draft. Early this week, I think Lamb said they will know decide Melksham's status in the next few days so I assume that means after trade week is over.

I'm not as enamoured as many for pick 1 if it means using our F1

In the next year or two we need to find A-level KPF, KPD and Ruckman.  The best will require a top 10 pick or even two in the case of a KPF eg JUH (who has put off contract talks to see how next year goes).  Ditto for Ben King.  

Can't see us having the currency to get those if we trade out our F1.  It seems many clubs are copying Dodoro and demanding ridiculous trades for even mediocre players who aren't in their best 22.

Unless we have someone on our list/in our sights to replace Brown/McDonald, May, Gawn, I would have been quite happy to trade in another F1 instead of chasing GCS pick 10 (now 11) which will go out to the mid teens.

We could still trade in a F1 (and meet the AFL rule to use 3 picks at the draft):

• pick 6 for the best available midfielder
• pick 43 for Brown assuming he nominates us
• pick 93 to promote Turner

which allows us to cash in pick 11 (and maybe some other 2024 picks) for the best F1 we can get.

But I know it won't happen.

Latest Update for Fullarton.  For now have assumed a 3 year contract.

There has been no change to the number of list spots:  2 or 3 Senior spots and 1 or 2 A rookie spots depending on what happens with Melksham.

2 hours ago, Sydney_Demon said:

Thanks @Lucifers Hero for your continuing great work on this. Do we still have Pick 92 (sorry I think that might be 93 now) or do we need to use that to upgrade Disco Turner to the 2024 Senior List? Also, is it likely Melksham will be rookied in 2024 or just stay on the Senior List?

93 went missing as the official AFL draft order list didn't include round 5.  I've included it in the latest version in the next post.

We can use any pick to upgrade Disco but if all lower picks have been used we can use 93 which by that stage will come in to 60 something.

I reckon Melksham's status will be decided after the draft when we see where Brown comes in at and what else happens.  Unless we keep pick 43 for Brown we will need to trade in a pick for him which could be on draft night.

I reckon there is another 'big' deal to be made so who knows what we end up with.

Updated for the Grundy trade.

As Brisbane will want future points I would think the WBD F3 will go to them for Fullarton.

Crows will want a future 2nd but don't think that McAdam is worth that.

That we have traded in a F2 and F3 pick almost guarantees we will trade out our own F1.

17 hours ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

I love a good spreadsheet, @Lucifers Hero, and yours ticks all the boxes! Great work and thanks!

A holiday break project: update for games played as at start of 2024? Good for milestone watching! And there were a few nice debs in 2023!

Thank you.

Games played will be updated with the final version post draft.

Updated for Harmes trade and F3 pick.  Also updated 2023 draft pick order.

Pick 46 is an insult given they also hold #33 (or whatever it is after compensation picks).  Not that I think #33 is fair.

We gave #27 last year and he hadn't played senior football for months partly due to injury and partly due to Collingwood not selecting him in the last 6 weeks of 2022.

Grundy is now injury free and has played the whole VFL/AFL season showing he has fully recovered.  We took a risk re his injury last year; there is no risk for Sydney. 

Petty will be an FA at end of 2025 so can walk to a club of his choice and we would get a comp pick in the mid to high teens (assuming the comp pick is deemed to be first round).

If he goes next year we can negotiate a better deal with Adelaide.

Wouldn't want to lose him but if he helps us win a flag or two before he goes then so be it.

The F3 for Harmes will probably get us Fullarton.  In terms of the list we need a fwd/ruck backup more than a depth midfielder so I reckon an F3 is a good result.  Not to mention the sal cap saving.

Having said that love Harmes and love his story of playing for his beloved Demons, the club he supported all his life and earning a flag with them.  He lived every kid's dream!!  He has come a long way since being rookied so really happy for him and what he has achieved. 

It wouldn't be easy for him to leave the Deesl.  Good luck at the Bulldogs!

Trade demands have now reached ridiculous levels.  On Koschitzke:

"...out-of-contract 23-year-old has asked for a trade to Richmond, with the Tigers tipped to offer a late selection for the former No.52 draft pick who has kicked 54 goals from 48 career matches.

But despite playing him just 12 times this past season the Hawks are asking for a pick around 25, according to multiple reports. Richmond has picks 27, 48 and 66.

The Hawks are set to replace Koschitzke with Gold Coast’s Mabior Chol but are willing to offer a future third-round pick for the ex-Tiger.

Hawthorn had offered Koschitzke a one-year deal at as little as $150,000, but after offering Chol four years with a trigger for a fifth, according to the Herald Sun’s Jon Ralph.

My summary:  Koschizke, who has played only half the games his season, is offered a one year deal at $150k and they want a mid second round pick but will only offer a future 3rd for a guy they have offered 4/5 years... 

I know it is Hawthorn's opening ambit but it is a great way of losing credibility.

As an aside, for those that think all AFL players are highly paid take note of the offer to Koschitzke!!

In this article about Murphy nathan-murphy-could-be-forced-to-retire-concussion-history it says:

"...the AFL’s general counsel Stephen Meade is expected to make a recommendation to Murphy imminently.  The concussion panel earlier this year recommended Sydney’s Patrick McCartin retire after he’s suffered nine career concussions – including eight at St Kilda".

I suspect this panel will play a role in Gus' future plans.

On 10/8/2023 at 3:14 PM, leave it to deever said:

I wonder what the median age of posters is on Dl?

Edit:  'Boomer' age range is 59 to 77 so they represent approx 35% of DL per that poll. 

Discussion is in this thread

8 hours ago, old55 said:

I don't have confirmation on these, but I think I heard in association with the new CBA that:

• The extra Veterans list spot was not agreed
• Mid season Rookies can stay on the Rookie list for an extra year so it may not be compulsory to elevate Disco

Thanks for info.

Technically we may not have to promote Disco but it would be shocking optics and quite unfair to not do so.  I would think that contract for promotion would already be signed.

6 hours ago, Hellaintabadplacetobe said:

It's well n truly out now 

May said at the start he probably had a few more drinks than he should have as he hadn't expected to be up there.

So his filter was probably a bit askew!  But we all loved it!

Reckon the 'we should have smoked them' will be on McCrae's white board next KB game.  It will go down in Dees vs Pies folklore like 'No duck no dinner'!!!

Langdon and May have rekindled the fierce rivalry of the 50's and 60's!!!  So bring on the next KB game - it should be a doozie!  Lets hope we land the first punch, euphemistically speaking.  Well, except for Maynard: some fierce tackling to make him earn each and every touch of the footy the 'old school way' will be in order!!!  Give him back some of his medicine dispensed on Langdon and Gus.

On 10/7/2023 at 9:08 AM, Kent said:

Great work Luci 

its great to be able to watch the list grow and develop and an amazing reference work Thanks to you from us all😇

16 hours ago, jayceebee31 said:

 

Agree fully.Sincere thanks L.H

Thanks heaps, guys.

Your appreciation and that of other posters makes the effort worthwhile!

3 hours ago, Caligula's cohort said:

I'm pretty sure I heard there will be an additional 'veteran spot' coming back for this coming season. So we may be able to put Melksham in that category, without taking away from a senior or rookie list spot. It just sounds so ridiculous to make a 200+ game player a 'rookie'. 

Thanks for that.  If you see the 'veteran spot' confirmed let me know and I will adjust the chart.

Yes, it is crazy to use 'Rookie' for Melksham.  It matters not to his remuneration or selection but I reckon he deserves better.

During the year when I waded through other club(s) fan sites to do the 'What They Are Saying @...) threads, I noticed some referred to 'Demonland' as 'Boomerland'!!  I laughed and laughed but thought better of mentioning it in those threads. 

The last few pages of this thread suggest this is a good place to drop their little pearl...' !!! 😉

17 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Does anyone have an update on list spots?

By my calcs so far it is probable that:

Out - D Smith, M Hibberd, B Grundy, J Jordon, L Dunstan & J Harmes

In - S McAdam, T Fullarton

Leaves 4 spots with the potential to upgrade Daniel Turner from the rookie list?

 

17 hours ago, Nascent said:

@Lucifers Hero has a pinned contract thread on one of the boards that has a good summary.

I believe D Turner has a contract that gaurentees promotion to the senior list for next season. The other question mark is if Melksham stays on the senior list or moved to the Rookie list. Either way he can be placed on the inactive list and free up another list spot I believe.

The Contract thread is pinned at the top of the Demons Forum

Link to the thread itself:

The latest is discussed toward the end of the thread.

I also put the latest at the top of page 1 of the thread for easy reference.

Latest changes:

• Added ND39 from the JJ move to Sydney
• Added Fullerton to the list
• Show the list changes identified, yet to be completed (names in blue)

Melksham is staying.  Yet to decide if it as a senior listed or rookie listed player.  It probably won't be decided until time of the draft.  It won't affect the list size, just the mix.  My guess is he will be a rookie as we may need the senior list to cover all the departures.  If that guess is correct the chart would show 3 senior and 1 A rookie list spot,

That is a very tidy draft hand we hold!!

15 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I think we underestimate how hard being a key forward is at that age and doing it basically alone for so many games because everyone else is falling over injured. And then being thrown in the ruck as well. 

McVee had a phenomenal year, but he was also incredibly well supported by stars like May and Lever. 
Roo was often a lone hand and did remarkably well under very difficult circumstances. 
 

Both are very worthy winners. 

I Don't underestimate the fwd role at all nor what JvR did.  Happy for the kid but that he got himself suspended when we needed him most devalues his year somewhat.

That McVee is ahead of other defenders says he more than held his own without depending on May, Lever etc

McVee 5th after 16 rounds.

Love JvR but reckon McVee deserves the Best Young Player outright!

Great to see my boy, McVee at equal 9th.❤️💙   A very consistent year so should be right up near the top 10 by the end.

Best New Player Award has to be his!!!