The heart beats true

I'm sorry, but I really don't get all the hand wringing over this. If we need to keep a player who has been loyal to us but 5 years into his career couldn't get a game in a team that finished 15th we've got massive cultural issues. Leadership and culture need to come from the coaches and CEO given the age profile of our list, and one of the ways you instill values in young people with short careers is to remind them that performance is crucial. If you play well it creates a winning culture. I reckon Jack Trengrove is a ripping bloke, but it's not going to stop me from wanting a better club to support and the development of a new, optimistic winning culture at my footy club.

Robbie Flower was a legend. One of the greatest memories I have is going with my dad to each of the finals in '87 as a 9 year old and seeing the effort the club and our supporters put in to win a flag for Robbie. I'm so glad I got to see him play. He was our club for 20 dark years. He kept us on the map. We all owe a lot to him.

His point about Franklin is bizarre. Following his logic lower teams should be less compensated because they finished lower and therefore their players are worth less? Great call Greg. Let's all just become feeder clubs. I can't wait to use his logic against him when they have a player available.

Does the afl list it's rules around religious bigotry anywhere? Would love to take a read only because it's such a complex issue it'd be fascinating to note the phrasing. Religion is much more about personal choice and personal choice is something we've historically struggled to legislate around because often one groups personal choices conceptually oppose another's. It's kind of how we define ourselves culturally - our sense of who we are is often easier defined but what we oppose. Which is not to say I think it's ok to not like someone because they belief something different. It might be a blurry line about if it's defined as 'racism' but it's pretty easy to define it as wilful ignorance manifesting as bigotry, which might even be worse.

Roos played that like a master. He firmly reminded the footy community that this guy isn't stable. All this player welfare language is code for 'hard work'. I don't believe that Mitch acted with malice when he retired. I do believe that he's made a horrible decision about what to do next. He's made himself look dishonest and called into question how the football community views mental health issues It's not exactly endearing and it will make him a target. He's brought it on himself, and I'm not sure he's strong enough to handle what it will truly mean for him for the rest of his life.

In the current game free agency is the key. It's pretty pathetic that an A grade player walks out on a bottomclub and in return all you get is some 'potential' rookie. Who are they learning from these rookies? The other kids? The AFL screwed that one up. They'll be forced to use their priority pick powers in the future as in 3 years none of the top sides will have moved anywhere and neither will any of the bottom sides have moved up. The Power are an anomaly but they'll never get over the top 4. It's making for a boring comp.

Only one slight issue with this.... Whose going to be taking the game on with ball in hand and put the fear into opposition clubs with their pace and skill? Grimes, Terlich, Bail, Riley, Tom McDonald, Tregrove, Toumpas, Struass, Tapscott, Matt Jones, Fitzpatrick, Spencer, Byrnes, Clisby, Evans, Nicholson or Jordie McKenzie? The prosecution rests.

Can't wait for us to lose Frawley and get two first rounders to mask our need for more quality. We'll lose a quality big bodied experienced player and be 'compensated' with a potential Lucas Cook. Gee, free agency is great for struggling clubs isn't it? I don't wonder why the crowds are down. It's because only 4 teams can win the flag by the end of October when lists are lodged. The league made a huge mistake putting free agency in at the time it did after multiple compromised drafts. In 2 years time they'll be trying their hardest to deny its impact but the only clubs that will have moved up the ladder will be those that got handed picks in compromised drafts. You can bet that us and St Kilda aren't going anywhere as good side will keep plucking players from us. Meanwhile Chip will go play for a top 4 side on serious money. And why exactly should I pay when I go to the footy? I'm over it. It's a flawed system that doesn't protect the people that actually pay for it.

I honestly don't think it makes any difference. We are far more competitive. Our percentage is a lot better than last year and that was Roosy's goal. Honestly all it does is solidify our request for a priority pick. The whole AFL community knows Roos is an outstanding coach. It proves we don't have the cattle. The only concern is Frawleys departure will mask it because it'll give us 1 and 2 anyways.

Folks, it's quite simply talent and conditioning. We don't have the talent (partly the clubs fault and partly the AFL's fault for giving GWS and GC every good player for 3 years), and what we do have that will be good isn't conditioned for a season of hard work. Tyson looks tired, Salem, and JKH tired, etc. For those of you asking for 10 delisting you need to think about where the talent is coming from to replace them. The addition of 2 new teams has simply meant that 44 players that weren't AFL quality 4 years ago are getting a game. I reckon we've got at least 7-8 of them. The talent thing is a genuine concern. We'll lose another player at the end of the year to free agency that would be in our top 5. The top clubs keep topping up with the bottom clubs best available. That's a disaster for the league long term. It's the EPL nightmare. Roos is a great coach, but we just don't have the players. The AFL erred by not giving us a priority pick last year, and now because of St Kilda and Brisbane they can't give us one. I don't wonder why crowds are down. I went today and watched 2 teams that simply shouldn't be in the same competition.

Yeah, yeah, we shouldn't have got so far behind etc. But the bulldogs shouldn't have let us back in the way they did. I'd love to know how many umps from the dogs game will get a run in the VFL this week. I'd say most will be dropped. A gift goal and 2 shocking holding the balls in the last :90 seconds that are all admitted mistakes. That's the difference in the game. We have a right to feel very disappointed in the umpiring.

It was an outrageously unfair decision in the context of the game, and it was at least good to hear Gerald Whateley say the umpires today admitted it was an incorrect decision. When you think about the Crameri goal and the last goal our players could have rushed through, we would have won by 3 goals. I also don't care how many times I watch Bontempelli's goal but that was a miracle kick. 9 times out of 10 he'd never kick that. The Bulldogs were very lucky to win. They gave up a huge lead and got gifted a goal that 99 times out of a hundred would have been a point. McCartney talked them up after the game but had they gone down they'd be a game behind us after 3 years under him with a lot more senior experience to work with. Can you tell I'm still bitter?

Just for some perspective, this is Roosy from the Presser tonight.... "I'm paid to teach these guys what AFL footy is. They had no idea. So that's my challenge, to be able to do that and teach them as quickly as we possibly can." How many other coaches are spending the year teaching the entire list what AFL standard is? It's probably us and GWS.

You don't rate Dom Tyson? I reckon if we don't want him we'll be able to trade him to any club in the land for the number 1 pick, such is his value. He is going to be a gun.

Some of you are so pessimistic it makes me laugh. Etihad is no way suits our game plan, and the Bulldogs game plan is built on it (which I think is a terrible idea long term because it's not a ground for finals). A lot of out long term players look tired and only have 1-3 preseasons under their belts. Even is we finish 18th this season we've taken huge steps in terms of competitiveness, structures and standards. Look how hard it is to get a game in the seniors for some players. Last year it was a raffle. Our forty club is on the rise guys. You've got to take a step backwards to go 2 forward. We butchered the ball today at a ground that we've been flogged at for years and only lost by 6 points. We must be doing somethings right.

Ok, so the whinging and hand ringing is getting dull so let me explain some positives: Viney - played a cracker. Added a string to his bow. Jamar - without his big body at the start of the year we got smashed. Going forward more makes him really hard to match up. Vince - got sticked early but worked hard to have an impact. As a coach you can use him to show that there is no such thing as a bad day. Grimes - one of his best games for us. And all this having a crack at young players is a joke. Tyson, Viney, Salem, Toumpas etc could all play together for 10 years. The future is bright there. Calm down.

Wow, I just read some of the other posts on here. Some people forget that this time last year we would have gone done by 15 goals after giving away that start. Losing this game teaches our players about concentration and consistency. We are on the improve. Lose the battle and win the war folks.

At the end of the day the difference in the game was the free kick paid against Bail for running the ball over the line in the 2nd quarter. It then created absolute confusion amongst Melbourne's defenders on 2 other occasions that gifted them goals. If that rule was applied as it is in every other game then we rush behind 3, and win by 10. Also, anyone else but Bob Murphy gets caught in that way by Dom Barry with 2 minutes to go and it's a free kick. We were very very ordinary at times, but they were unbelievably lucky too.

We are very poor but honestly I can't stand games at Etihad. It's like watching basketball. All momentum one way, and then it swings the other. The team with the ball and half decent skills play like millionaires, but it's an erratic, unreliable surface. Essendon, North and the Bulldogs all have moments of looking like contenders but clearly aren't. It's just not a reliable indicator of quality levels. All it's highlighted for me is that we have too many players without AFL skills.

I do not rate him as a coach/manager at all. He never looks like he's in control, and I think he's part of the reason they are so erratic.

That sliding doors stuff is a solid 7-9 minutes of writing each week by an intern that Barrett 'over sees'. It's utter rubbish.

A good side can't have 3 defenders that turn the ball over like Grimes, T Mac and Garland have the last few weeks. T Mac is my least concern. He has size and time on his side. Grimes is a genuine worry and Garland seems to have little intensity this year.

They aren't great in general but their attitude towards the ASADA investigation is what kills me. You know whose not being 'bullied' and having to deal with the 'emotional distress' of an ASADA investigation and show cause notices? The other 17 teams in the competition who didn't inject their players to an environment that their own report classified as 'pharmacologically experimental'. By that logic they'd think Lance Armstrong is a victim too.

Today on AFL.com (in-between hyping up Frawley going to Hawthorn) he made the startling comment that if his gut feel is right Shaun Atley is about to be 'elite'. This Shaun Atley? http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Ratings/Player/115782/Shaun-ATLEY Those are seriously average numbers. If by elite you mean scraping into the top 400 players in the league them maybe. I don't imagine Ablett, Watson and Pendlebury are nervous. North are still the most schizophrenic team in the league, but he doesn't wanna talk about that.

I'm shocked that anyone that has had to sit through some of the crap we dished up in 2012-13 would complain about what they saw yesterday. Do you not remember when Essendon sticked us by 150 points 14 months ago? Go back and watch Ross Lyon's first season at Freo. He had a lot of talent and a lot of experience at his disposal but he taught them how to be more defensive and harder to score against and as a result they are now in line to have 3-5 years of consistent success. On paper they are probably only a top 6-8 team. Roos is building a structure and setting a standard for effort that new players have to then come into the side and work hard to attain. I thought it was fantastic that he never went away from his plan all day. You don't teach young footballers that hard work is a non negotiable by 'flicking a switch' and allowing them to be less accountable and run forward in hope. They'll learn themselves to take their chances because they'll know how hard they are to come by. Then we'll have a great team. If you sat in the stands during those consistent 100 plus loses I can't believe you don't agree. 2014 is only about setting standards, and it's a massive step forward.