rjay

The defence forces don't just do 2 days of this type of training...big difference and bares no relevance to what our players did.

One of Hird's many mistakes...

Scapegoat is probably the wrong word, and don't get me wrong he should have been held accountable. ...but in this case the AFL were aware of the problem very early on and should have stopped it. To cover their own ineptness they wanted to make Hird the fall guy then move on. Unfortunately for all parties including himself he wouldn't take the fall. As you say the AFL is like other sporting bodies and can't be trusted to run a clean sport. I'm as sure as I can be that flags have been won by drug cheats... As for the Hitler analogy, nice story but not quite so sure it applies here.

He did wrong no doubt about it. He was the man in charge who either implemented the program or was ignorant of it, he had to fall on his sword. He wouldn't accept being the scapegoat although I have no doubt the AFL where setting him up to be it. They had a couple of things on their agenda here. One too them being there own culpability in the whole affair. They knew it was going on and did nothing to stop it apart from a quiet word. If Hird had have gone along with it the whole saga would have ended years ago and he would probably still be coaching EFC. So yes he was at fault as was the AFL, they wanted him to lie down and he wouldn't. I also think the AFLPA have gotten away lightly here.

I don't see why...of course we will get injuries in the course of playing & training. I just don't understand why developing mental toughness requires any greater risk of injury. In fact I very much doubt that a 2 day camp will improve mental toughness in any way. If there are any psych's on the site they may be able to shed more light.

As one who has never lamented our soft mental state in games over the past few years I do question whether this sort of camp improves mental toughness. ...so can I have my cake and not eat it or should I eat somebody elses cake????

Robson is another. Whether it was honourable or just cutting their losses it was a smart thing to move on and away from the mess. I think the AFL did want Hird's scalp as some kind of symbolic gesture but whichever way you look at it he had to carry at a minimum some responsibility. The buck always stops with the coach like it or not. I think Hird was very badly advised or chose not to listen to advice all through this time. This probably gives a clue as to why he brought in Robinson & Dank...I wouldn't be giving Hird a job in executive recruitment that's for sure. I also believe the AFL & AFLPA have played a deceptive game in this whole saga...the AFL knew about the program and as they run the game should have stepped in and stopped it. They can order a club to wear clash jumper but they can't stop a supplements program that looked decidedly dodgy. Head in the sand. They've managed to sneak away from the whole thing without anyone losing their job at AFL house...although AD did sneak off to greener pastures with a nice payout.

It probably won't 'Wiseblood' as I'm not sure how you could measure the success or failure of something like this. We have one measure of failure, Tyson's injury. Success will be more about the 'vibe'...

You're reading my mind 'Nasher', couldn't agree more... Let me add that it's also difficult to nearly impossible for the almost good enough's to become good enough unless they get consistent game time at the top level. It's a bit of a catch 22. It's why we get games into good kids and a big part of why Oscar got games last year...he needed to learn his craft with & against the best. Players that spend too much time in the 2nd tier struggle to move up. Also why Weideman will play a lot of games this year and Oliver won't see Casey again unless coming back from injury... There is a myth about Clarko leaving players at Box Hill to develop, all his good ones play a lot of top level games early in their careers... Players like ANB & JKH need to get good game time to improve otherwise they go on to be the Michies & Newtons at another club if they are lucky enough to get a 2nd chance. Kennedy is this years Michie/Newton, needs to crack a game or in danger of being moved on...

I find it unusual that he hasn't yet made the trip to Melbourne to see James.... There may be a good reason but out of anything he had to say this is the only thing that stuck with me.

The 3rd man up rule will also hurt them significantly. They rely on too few, if Danger goes down they are shot. Agree with the Roos, think they will finish bottom 4. If 'Jack's' source is correct on O'Meara then the Hawks will be in some trouble. They have taken a big punt on the medical team to get it right. ...Interesting times ahead.

Yep... I did like the Brett Allison ones, although most complained they were too real and a bit harsh.

If he starts listening to everyone then he is a good chance to turn himself into a Cloke or Baker Finch. Seems to me his mental strength, self awareness and confidence won't allow that to happen.

Hibbard, Salem and Lewis should go a ways to fixing the problem 'steve'. ...and I would expect a few of the kids to improve this aspect of their game, especially Brayshaw also think Hunt will lift further in 2017. Agree, no doubt it's an area we need to keep working on though. edit: Oliver is also a very good user by foot, hopefully he uses this part of his game to more advantage at AFL level in 2017.

We've probably done this to death now (training camp), but some really interesting points have been raised. I'm more in the negative than positive but won't disregard what others have said. I'm not happy about Tyson picking up an injury and that probably colours my view as I think he is a critical part of our team. ...but I'm also more a train football to play football kind of person.

...but you can critique the wisdom of doing this type of training. For one thing sleep deprivation for an elite athlete is not optimal, as sleep plays a major part in recovery. It just opens up the chance of injury, yes we are going to get some in regular training but why increase the risk. It would be interesting to see the cost/benefit analysis of this training.

Sorry, don't agree. I'm happy with the way the club has been moving under PJ/Roos & it appears to be heading in the right direction with the transition. It doesn't mean we just accept everything though. I think some of the personal experiences shared by others are interesting, including your own. ...but again remember your experience was over 15 years not a couple of days...I think at best the experience for the players will just be a bit of a change from the norm, doing something a bit different.

Mmmm....I think I will leave it there 'stuie'.

Factually speaking you can't prove it helped them either. They might just have had a better team...

Read my previous posts... I have as many facts to back up my opinion as you do to back yours... That's why it's called an opinion & not a fact.

Funny, his name ran through my head as I wrote.... ...but no, there are a few around that work hard without assistance. A couple of our own don't leave much on the track.

I'm not sure they still do it but my answer would be it also hasn't helped them. They had a great list...

Given that I brought it up, let me say that I have never whinged about the mental fragility of this group of players. I have always believed that the mental side of their game would strengthen with age. I was not whinging about them doing this training either, just pointing out my belief that it has no real value. Injury becomes a real possibility doing things your body is not trained to do. As you point out, you did 15 years. That's a hell of a lot more time than a couple of days...

Most of these things give a bump straight after but then it's back to normal so it doesn't surprise me about the players reaction. I'm more interested in the player who continually tests his limits during a game. Someone who who is a 2 way runner, who works to his absolute max. These sort of camps I find to be a bit of snake oil...happy to be proven wrong but of course impossible to set a KPI to prove it either way. We will just beg to differ on this...

I would have to agree with Judd. Looking at training pre Christmas there seemed to be a very strong bond between the players already. To me this is about as big a waste of time as going to an Anthony Robbins spectacular.