rjay

Ok Fonz....can you just admit you could be wr..... We all know that uncontracted players get where they want to go...we have to go back a long way to find one that didn't. Contracted players are a little more difficult as the club has more the whip hand as we've seen with Gibbs and McCarthy. If a deal is struck with the clubs then it will be done. You were making a point on St Kilda having a better bargaining power on Martin & Kelly than we do. They don't on an uncontracted player if the player wants to come to us. Martin is also a free agent so there need be no negotiation with Richmond, just a big pay rise for Martin. I'm not particularly interested in either by the way as I think the cost benefit doesn't add up.

I understand your point but satisfying the club has taken a back seat to satisfying the player. If the player is out of contract they will get to where they want to go, not where the club want them to go. Gibbs wasn't out of contract...

'steve', the bargaining power of clubs in a trade situation has little or nothing to do with it these days. If the player wants to go to a particular club and if they are out of contract then the deal gets done.

Waite is a very clever player, let's see how Frost goes against him this weekend before getting too excited. I think we still need a good key defender who can use the ball.

They already have...can't remember who but someone did it in the China game.

No, can't be right...that champion data mob reckon we've got the worst midfield in the comp... Can't wait to hear how they spin this one.

I think you answered your own question with the first part 'Skuit'... It will depend on specific opposition.

Well there you have it... We've been conditioned to be worried about other teams on the rebound against us. Maybe it's time to realise we are good enough to beat anyone on a given day.

Nit picking where so and so plays or plays their best football is not the point...they have the flexibility on their list that we don't. A key forward, ruck or defender goes down and they can cover it pretty well, we can't. We have a list problem, I'm pretty sure the FD would know this (if they don't we have real problems) and will work to rectify it.

No but the list could be better balanced and I'm sure it will over the next few years. We have gone into the season with only 2 players (not including King coming back from knee and and Flip in development) over 200cm. We don't have the flexibility to cover the loss of Max and Spence and it was a mistake whichever way you spin it...because we've had to use forwards to fill a gap and we don't have much there it makes the problem even worse. Hate to mention the dogs but they have it covered. Boyd, Redpath, Cloke, Crameri, Roughhead, Cordy, Adams, Campbell to name a few.... WC have and I haven't had a good think about other lists.

"Free kick Hawthorn" Times change 'Petrac'...the Dogs do get a good run these days, Bevo learned a lot from Clarko it seems.

I don't take a lot of posters seriously but 'Pennant' is well connected in Perth and his mail is good.

Not even close 'picket', last year we got smashed by the Cats with master coach Roos. Goodwin had us well on the way when Max went down.

Was going to click like on this but nothing to like here. ...and yes I always trust your mail 'Pennant', unfortunately on this occasion. Looks like being one of those years.

Interesting.... The coach says he's played a number of roles for the team. I know he's played off HB, on the wing not just as an inside mid. As we've seen with Bugg, numbers aren't the only thing that counts....

Melbourne on the rebound after last weeks loss will be a difficult proposition for Adelaide...

Unfortunately 'Lucifer' whilst both were good players they are very average analysts of the game. Lyon reminds me of a modern day Don Scott...Don was always on about being hard, tough and bleeding for the jumper. That was pretty much the extent of his game day analysis and I don't hear much more than that coming from Gary. I find Ox entertaining in small doses but definitely don't consider him one of the games big thinkers, but now he's lost me with this. It's funny when a Richmond supporter microwaves his membership but apart from the card there were no players caught out as collateral damage... He's made a mistake and I hope he apologises for it. It's the least he can do.

I think we have more pressing needs.... Key defender is probably the first choice for me. We will need to spend our capital wisely.

MRP is different than the tribunal 'Lucifer'... ...agree though the MRP are horrible and getting worse, it's still chook lotto.

As 'McQueen' said, the VFL tribunal are a lot more lenient. I couldn't imagine the AFL tribunal being swayed by North's argument.

Ok...I like good healthy debate as many of us do on here. Before I go on & make some points let me say this. I've read through here and am in total agreement with 'Hardtack' and am totally disgusted with the way one of our players has been hung out to dry. I also think a lot of supporters and I use the term loosely need to calm down and make a logical assessment of where we are... I've been critical of some of things Goodwin has done and like others think we probably over use the ball. Our skill level is not good enough yet for the game style. I do think we have issues with the list but I'm pretty sure those in charge understand & will work to fix it, we have what we have for season 2017. A few of things keep coming to mind though. 1. I think Goodwin's working well with what he has. How he manipulated the situation with EFC was masterful coaching. How we ran over the Saints, similar. 2. We've been in every game we've played, probably the only team to do so this season which means we are more consistent than we get credit for. Yes, I would like a better win loss record & I get p....off too. We all seem to agree our defence is not great but somehow we manage to stay in games. The coach must be doing something right. 3. The big one that keeps coming back to me though is Clarkson's situation early days at Hawthorn. I remember the complaints at the time from fans and so called experts in the media about the game style, lack of skill & how they mucked around to much with the pill. So I went back & cut some quotes from articles about that time...season 2006. The part comment in bold probably sums things up pretty well. .....Clarkson implemented clear ball movement patterns and structures during his first two seasons, but wins were limited because his team did not have the experience or skill level to carry them out........ ......Dunstall said calls for Clarkson's head were reflective of the emotion that accompanied roller-coaster performances. "After week one (when Hawthorn beat Fremantle), I was approached by people saying, 'Why hasn't the coach been re-signed?' After week two and a bad loss, they are asking, 'Does he know what he's doing?' That's how fickle the game is." According to Dunstall, the league's most inexperienced coach will not be affected by the criticism. "He'll hear it and it might be a little bit of baggage he carries outside the club, but he'll cope very well with that," Dunstall said...... ......The Hawks stated a mid-season review would settle the future of their coach in 2006 as they decided to extend Clarkson's contract. Bookies at the time questioned what right he still had being head coach of a footy club. They finished the season well (won their last 4) but those 9 games that they won in 2006 (5 in 2005) were against Carlton twice, Essendon twice, and a pathetic Geelong twice with the other three wins coming at 'defacto Glenferrie' Aurora Stadium, Tasmania. He was pilloried for having an awful gameplan, based on this nonsense of over-possession that was seen as the latest fad. He stuck to his gameplan and overhauled the list to get players to the club that could handball and run and carry the football....

I'm not sure Kelly will ever be a game changer in the mould of an Ablett, Danger, Buddy or Selwood. He appears to me to be what he looked like in his junior years, a really neat footballer who goes about his business in a very professional manner. I don't see any of the so called 'x' factor...

He's hardly a goal scoring machine... I am one of his biggest critics but it looks like with his tackling stats he might step up this week. I just hope he's turned the corner but I suspect he's going to be one of those frustrating footballers for his career and if that's the case I hope it's with another team.

If you think the effort was there then have another look at the first Q yesterday in particular. We let them break from contests way too easily and throughout the match we couldn't stick tackles. I get the frustration with over possessing the ball but don't let this one issue blind you to other problems.

Your Tyson bias is showing a bit 'joeboy', but I guess this is a good wrap from you. I thought he was one of our more consistent contributors today and was involved in as many (I counted 5) goal scoring chains. No clangers & used the ball well. Tyson - running into form.