rufus

17 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

It’s pathetic. I’m not have a crack at our mob but I was so disappointed the sheer difference in support. What is it that makes us have this little support? 

It's our style of play. We try to beat every opponent exactly the same way...and by 10 points. It is like pulling teeth to watch. We are told it is 'built for finals' but when we get there and watch the inevitable calamity unfold it just drains all enthusiasm.

I think deep down nobody trusts what this club is going to do so they don't want to make too much noise fearing the inevitable ridicule.

5 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

Hmm, if we hadn't finished top 4, and only lost one game to be knocked out, would that still count?

West Coast - knocked out of elimination finals by 6, 8 and 7 goals in 2002-2004 before then playing in consecutive grand finals and winning a premiership.

Port Adelaide - 2001 knocked out winless, then 2002 and 2003 won only semi-finals for a 4L 2w record. Then won the premiership in 2004.

Richmond - 2013/14/15 knocked out in elimination final each time, including once against a team that didn't even finish top 8! Were a definite laughing stock with an old stale list. Reset in 2016, recruited aggressively to supplement their mature list, and played in the next 4 grand finals for three premierships.

Essendon - Top of the ladder on a seven game winning streak, coincidentally, massively choked and lost by a point against Carlton in 1999, then came back and had the best single season in the AFL era in 2000. Also, just for fun, please remember that Essendon have now lost six consecutive elimination finals with an average losing margin over ten goals. Not sure if that is relevent but it always cheers me up.

Geelong - in a four-year run from 2016-2019 they finished 2nd, 2nd, 8th and 1st on the ladder, yet never won more than one final in a season and clearly were far too old to go on.

Hawthorn - Unexpectedly won a premiership in 2008 then slumped horribly, missing finals, then knocked out in an elimination final in 2010 before 2011 coming into the 2011 prelim final the long way via a semi-final. Led at every change before choking out by giving up the lead in a five goal to 2 final quarter when the opponent had only kicked five goals in the entire game to that point. Hawthorn then played the next four grand finals for three premierships.

Brisbane - 2019/20/21 Brisbane entered finals in the top 4, including twice earning home finals, and played six finals for a total of one win.

Now, Brisbane are the only example from this set who has not gone on (yet) to win either one or three premierships in the following years, and it includes a full range of age profiles.

We finished this season in a miserable way, with injuries and poor form stacked in the particular area of the ground where we were weakest to begin.

Along the way, these last 8 days have done real damage to my entire 'relationship' with Australian football.

But there's no reason to believe Melbourne won't be up in the contenders again in 2024 and with just as much a shot as any other top-4 side.

Meanwhile, I'm glad our women's team is stomping everything in sight because I don't know if I'll even be bothering to watch the rest of the men's finals. It's all just damp ash.

I'm sure there's a way we can outdo Brisbane on that list. Top 4 next year and 2 more choke jobs and we'll be the standout anomaly on another list!

3 minutes ago, BDA said:

Trac has been the biggest disappointment for me this finals series. He has no composure. just blazes away. he's a much better player than that. I hope he can learn from this and come back stronger next year.

Also gets the fumbles way more than other elite players in the comp.

I think he's a great club man and shows great passion for the club, but he's overrated in general and also can be very poor defensively. 

1 minute ago, everythingsablur said:

There’s a real unhealthy arrogance in our group. They all think they’re superstars but they are just mostly average footballers who prefer playing golf. 
 

The culture needs a massive shake-up. And goal kicking practice. 

Agreed. The club in general was arrogant coming out of 2021 including proclamations of the 'changed culture'.

Did the stuff about aiming to be at peak fitness on preliminary final weekend come from the club or from Demonland? How about just winning a single final before worrying about preliminary final weekend.

1 minute ago, mauriesy said:

So you're saying that Brayshaw instead of JJ, Petty instead of TMac, Melksham instead of Spargo, and JVR instead of, say, Chandler, wouldn't have helped? At the very least they would have kicked straighter.

 

Not saying they mightn't have helped, but I'm suggesting the reason we didn't win is because we are chokers and it wouldn't have mattered who was out there. We generated so many chances to win and once again we shrunk.

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

Also I know we want to soften the blow but I don’t buy the “Brisbane would have killed us next week” stuff. 

If we held on tonight, got the monkey off the back, and then got to get on a plane and galvanise as a unit against a side we hate, but match up well against, and who is the only other side in it who has anything like the pressure that we have, I genuinely would have backed us in. 

Who knows what we might’ve served up next week. You'd have thought after the Petty controversy last year we'd have been fired up to take them on in a final ON OUR HOME GROUND. Yet once again we sh@ the bed.

1 minute ago, mauriesy said:

Put Brayshaw, Petty, Melksham and JVR into tonight's side and we win.

We didn't lose because we were missing those guys...we lost because we produced and epic choke job for the 4th final in a row.

2 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

The first team under the current finals system to lose in straight sets in back-to-back seasons.

Melbourne break another record! Woohoo!

 

 

Another great record for the fans to be proud of.

When we're a bad team, we're absolutely diabolical, but that's ok because...insert excuses.

When we have a good team, we are world record choke artists.

Thanks again MFC.

2 minutes ago, BoBo said:

If we don’t win it next year, that could be the window closed and we’ll be surpassed by other clubs. 
 

We need to worry about winning a single final...not about winning it all. On the evidence you've seen, what makes you think there's any chance whatsoever that we could win 3 finals in front of big crowds at the MCG? There's literally no chance with this group, who have proven to be massive chokers.

We're going to need to reload and hope that the next generation that come through have some bottle.

We are an out and out joke. Just a club that has no idea how to find a way.

I have no faith in these guys whatsoever. What's the point of us scraping into top 4 again next year? Seems like we all know what's going to happen when the pressure really comes on.

Strangely I feel that if we lose tonight it will only reinforce what an extraordinary feat it was to lead this club to a flag in 2021.

I mean, if we lose 4 finals in a row (on our home ground) then I guess it's enough evidence to say our players just aren't that good. And yet he managed to organise pretty much the same guys in a way that enabled us to grab one when the stars aligned.

I think Carlton are a better side than Collingwood so we are going to have to make this hard for them.

I generally love everything that Max says, but hearing him on breakfast radio earlier in the week scared me when he said the group discussed their start last week and felt they were just a tiny bit off. They were way off and it was home and away intensity (barely) and it cost us the game. Any period of the game at that level tonight and its curtains for us.

This game won't be won or lost at selection. Like almost every other game of professional Australian rules football ever played, it'll be won by the team that can apply and absorb pressure for the longest.

Like it or not, as a club we've spent the best part of 60 years (bar one) finding ways to lose. It's up the players now to just find a way to win.

7 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Last week's loss and incident has given Goody a golden opportunity to galvanise this group, harness all of that emotion from players and supporters alike and attack the rest of this finals series as if we have a point to prove. 

The question is whether or not Goody and our leaders have what it takes to go there and be fuelled by it. 

Now if we really are club with a strong and changed culture and a team stacked with competitive beasts, then we will see that come Thursday night. 

I think this game is one of the most important in defining us as a club going forward. We're up against another juggernaut of a supporter base. Do we have the resolve to overcome their raucous crowd and execute? Reputations are made this time of year. 

If people want to play the 'woe is us' injury card, then you may as well pack up bags now. I'm sick of that rhetoric. Every side has experienced injuries and both Collingwood and Carlton were able to persevere and win games despite the fact. Injury will not define this game. Our attitude will be the only thing. 

If we win this, we have a shackles off free hit against Brisbane and we can carry this emotional wave through to a grand final. Clearly not the easy or desired path but gold is to be found in the places you least want to look. 

I just really hope Goody and co are using all of what has occurred this past week as motivation. 

Because if we make a Grand Final against Collingwood in a couple of weeks' time, they will be absolutely [censored] themselves. 

Goodwin is apparently quite a measured and calm coach, doesn't lean into the emotional side as much as imploring the group to follow the process.

If the coaches can get the players to start the game with say the kind of intensity that Collingwood started last week's game, we may be able to get on the front foot and not be chasing tail all game. It's a big if though, because we haven't seen many 4 quarter efforts at that intensity level over the last 2 years. So which quarters will we choose?

Also, if we happen to see manic intensity to start the game, I think people will be surprised to see just how well our forward line can function when the ball is coming in quick off turnovers forced around the middle of the ground.

What a great contribution he has made to the club. An outstanding 1 on 1 competitor and never once saw him shirk a contest in the red and blue. He is the embodiment of where this club needs to get to with his relentless competitiveness.

He might not have been the most naturally talented player to take the field, but to me he is just about the finest example of what I'd like my kids to aspire to in their sporting pursuits.

10 hours ago, Nairobi_Demon said:

This is the biggest conundrum for me - where was our pressure? 
 

This is our pressure for the KB game. It’s not super high but I remember us all discussing that it felt higher and it was also period of loading for both teams):

Here’s pressure from Thursday. We didn’t win one quarter and we never got above 182, in a final after a bye!

Our game style is built on pressure and finals demand high levels of pressure.   I can’t see how we can win if we can’t increase this from the start of the game. Thankfully this is something the team should be capable of rectifying for next week - only this (and some reversion to the mean on goal kicking) gives me hope. 

Absolutely damning for the players that we've just played a final with that level of pressure. Everyone lamenting our F50 entries are still not ticking that it is pressure up the ground that causes turnovers that allow the ball to come in faster and more dangerously.

Fritsch, who's improved physicality in the 2021 finals was key has been called out for his softness on Thu by Luke Hodge.

I guess we might get a response on Fri night from the players...but it's scary that we have a whole game plan built around contest and pressure yet we can dish this up in 3 finals in a row.

Still just feels like when push comes to shove and things get really hard, our club is the one getting the shove. I think that given we are still prone to drop off in effort at this stage of the year, we're out of the hunt this season. But if we don't fix this next year, this era of our most gifted midfield and backline talent for 50 years might be defined by us just not being able to go hard enough for long enough.

7 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Just got home and seen the score, considering we know Port is overrated we’re Lions brilliant or just ok?

I still think we can win it and if we don’t this year has been a massive failure.

They look very good. They are getting plenty from their young players too...not many players you can try to expose through their team.

Watching the Lions actually makes me feel better about our situation. I thought our finals efforts last year were pathetic but thought we were only at best the 2nd best team in it...didn't think we could beat Geelong anyway.

Doubt we'd have much chance against Bris this year...our intensity lapses will see 6+ goals piled on us by these guys. It's easier to move on from a disappointing end when there's a clearly superior outfit in the mix.

12 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

We got punched up, pure and simple

If we played that hard, contested, uncompromising footy, we'd be lauding the players

Full credit to the Pies

Shades of 2000 GF where we had the crafggdfgppola punched out of us

Agree with this. I don't hate Collingwood at all...I absolutely admire the way they give 100% all the time. There are no ifs or buts for them. There is a rarely a feeling of excuses like 'yeah but if we had Nick Daicos playing we would have been better'. Such great value for their fans.

I actually believe their list right now is bog ordinary yet here we are likely seeing them in another GF. Unbelievable. Compared to us with one of the most dominant midfields of the last 25 years and potentially about to lose a 4th final on the trot.

4 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

In all this a chance we could have a straight sets exit 2 years in the row yet Goody has a 3 year extension. I’m a fan of Goody but very concerning as our finals footy isn’t holding up with losses in our last 3 finals 

Goody can't go out there and kick it for them. He's given them a method that generated 26 shots at goal to 16, despite the players starting the game like under 14s playing a match against the under 16s.

Is it his job to get them motivated to start the game with the requisite intensity? Maybe, but you would think that after last year's finals debacle a bit of pride would have seen the players drive that themselves.

Just have the weirdest feeling about how it is all unfolding for us after last night.

I personally do not believe the problem was that much to do with our method going forward. We were pathetic in the contest in Q1 (really could have been down 35 at qtr time), and all game our forwards were frankly embarrassing. They were given more than enough chances to win the game and they completely sh@t the bed.

It's weird because I think we have a method and a midfield and a backline that is so dominant that I think we should make it to the GF and then beat Coll on the day...yet I fully expect that we will lose next week. I still have no confidence in this club just finding a way.

Lost in the first quarter. For a team coming off 2 insipid finals performances last year to get smashed at the contest like we did in Q1 is just hard to fathom.

How many teams have done two consecutive straight sets exits? Are we going to add another 'embarrassing record' to our list?

An absolute shambles at the contest in that qtr. Beaten in almost every 50/50 contest. That had nothing to do with umpires coaching or selection. Players need to show something or we're hobbling into a fight against back to back straight sets next week. 

Max mentioned during the week that the manner of last year's finals defeats was embarrassing for the group and that they have talked about it this week. I love that and I hope the burn from last year drives them to do everything they can to avoid it happening again.

Our last few months have been encouraging in that we've been able to ratchet up the physicality and pressure and ultimately overwhelm teams with it. That is something we had not seen for the prior 12 months (it had been happening to us in fact). It is much more like our 2021 performance. 

We are going to get hit harder than we have been hit physically during this 3 year run tonight (starting with Max who they will smash physically by any means possible). Hopefully we hang tough for those first 20 minutes and give it back to them 10 fold.