Demon Dynasty

Agreed. He definitely is a strong leader, not sure if you noticed or not but on saturday i saw several times him running up to the middle of the ground yelling instructions etc. to the midfielders before each bounce and giving them a "razz up" and then running back to the forward line.

Its a shame it didn't work but he definitely has fire in the belly!

I didn't but i'm going to watch the replay if i can handle the pain again, so i'll look for it. I sure noticed that amazing effort/assist on the flank though in that third quarter when the chips were down. Team lifting stuff....at least i thought it might lift them anyway

He's a big positive so far that's for sure. I'm thinking that as a supporter in such grim times, i can take some small positives out of his effort so far (and that of Jonesy, Magner, Howe and some odd others) and maybe i just go support them as such and it'll give me some hope and i'll feel a tad better about going. Like i'm there for the individuals for as long as the team (as a collective) aren't gelling etc.

Maybe the cheer squad could start to crank up the support for individuals who are performing too with targeted chanting and specific signs on the banners (if they aren't already). Try and bolster them for the efforts they're showing.

Currently watching FOX FOOTY classic game of Melbourne Brisbane Round 3 2011.

One Mitch Clark is playing CHF start of the 4th quarter with 23 touches 10 marks 9 inside 50 and 4 or 5 scoring assists. Honestly I was under somewhat of an impression he was far better in the ruck but he has done literally everything I hope for this year. Breaking packs, bringing the ball to the ground and even more so being a presence.

Watching this really makes me feel like this yea could be fun!!

This is key to me. Particularly with a young inexperienced team and a poor mid. We need to get him into the contest as much as possible (higher up the field) and to bring others into the game with assists (hopefully) and bringing the ball to ground for our small forwards to crumb ...oops... haven't got any of those atm have we...damn it

As a former Rugby union player i couldnt agree more

Low and hard with desire can make up for strength

"Hit em hard ,Hit em low and if they get up againhit them again"

Freo, way to go!

Hit ‘em real hard, send ‘em down below

Oh Freo, give ‘em the old heave ho

We are the Freo Dockers!

No, it's nothing to do with size or strength. It's about wanting to lay the tackle (desire) and the technique to do it and maybe as others have pointed out not knowing where they should be positioned, over thinking the game.

I realise there's technique/desire etc. I also realise stats can be inaccurate lol. And i also know it depends on who's tackling who....but a stat from last Saturday's match against the Toiges FWIW.....

Team Weight (average, per player)

Tigers: 86.5kg

Demons: 88.9kg

He just might be our version of Cam Mooney. No coincidence that they eventually lost their 'hand bag' status during the years that followed. Not saying it was solely the result of Cam alone, but no doubt had a fair influence on the change.

Mitch is a natural at CHF for mine albeit i think he'd still give a fair fist of it (and has so far) no matter where he's asked to play. But i strongly feel this is where he'll shine even more for us, and be most effective from a team point of view, when played there.

One player that has the 'mongrel' in him that's for sure and would even make a good 'solo' captain IMO.

Same as Old Dee, been to the GF to see us flogged.

I was shattered this week and the week before and the one before.

Maybe you and old dee should go talk to the players and tell them what it feels like.

Doesn't seem to be much love lost on their playing mates from what we've seen dished up so far (with the exception of a few). Look at the non-response the players had when Grimes got smashed by Waters last week. So i doubt whether many are giving much thought to the supporters at this point.

Whatever spirit was at the club last year, and there at least appeared to be something there (at least up till 186)....it's well and truly gone this year from where i sit.

I agree with most of the points you've raised, but how could we possibly have overused the ball and end up with 150 less possessions?

How can Howe be the only player over 20 possessions?

How can we have 8 players with 10 or less disposals and another 3 with only 11 disposals? That is half the team who had 11 or less disposals. WTF are they doing out there?

Dr., i'm questioning this as well.

So Neeld & co. are saying learning a new game style/plan from scratch is tough. Ok. I can see that....to a point. It's going to test any players who were under the previous coach for most of his tenure sure. It would take time to get things right and make the new directives/skills/drills/set ups 2nd nature. It would take time to implement a fitness program that brings the players to a level needed to pull off the new requirements effectively, on a consistent basis.

So lets say at the very least 2 to 3 years for some who are still young, inexperienced and learning the basics of the game, let alone a completely new style/structure. Maybe 3 to 4 yars to build a decent AFL tank. And for the seniors, possibly even more difficult using the "old dog" principle. For the new guys, like Magner, Clarke who are starting afresh with Neeld & Co., maybe a little easier. Of course this is pure speculation. Every individual's reponse and ability to cope with change is no doubt different as would be their likelihood of successful conversion/change and output/performance.

But then there's attitude, intensity at the ball and ball carrier when you don't have it. Personal pride. Pride in the jumper, passion and self motivation that comes from within, regardless of what might inspire some.

I just want to know where that's gone? Were the wins last year a fluke? The players must have gotten themselves up somehow in order to win, especially some of the thumpings we handed out where we put our foot on the neck of the opponent and didn't let up till the final siren (ok only a few occasions...but it WAS there).

So are we talking here about the ability of the coach/coaching staff to motivate, inspire....incentivise?

I know Neeld says our moral is fine. But really, apart from a fair effort in the first half against mediocre opposition in Brisbane and Richmond, i haven't seen any fight, spirit or ferocious attack on the ball in a "team" sense. Individual efforts sure, Clarke, Jonesy, Magner, Howe (this week) along with a few reasonable camios from others.

But to win Neeld needs the support and backing of the entire senior group. And to this point, at least on the surface viewing it as an outsider, i would have to say Neeld has possibly either lost them OR....a few are refusing (or unwilling to this point) to back him/his teams' direction either individually or collectively as a small group.

Maybe they have their noses out of joint from the "young captain" announcements? Again pure speculation. But the degree of sub standard performances from most within the senior group (at least those that have hit the park) is bewildering. Jonesy, Rivers the exceptions to this point.

I have no doubt our list is poor as it now stands, but there's been some pretty average lists over the years (in many a team) as judged by the pundits, but in some cases, they still manage to get themselves up for a match and at least make a fist of it. They might go down, but they go down fighting and never give in.

I haven't witnessed this fighting spirit in a team sense so far this year, in what should have been 2 very 'winnable' matches (at least prior to the season starting anyway).

Maybe Neeld IS on the right track and just needs plenty of time and clever recruiting/list changes.

But IMO one aspect or sign of solid coach is his ability to inspire and motivate the playing group and get them playing hard nosed, competitive, desperation football across all lines and play a game out right to the end, no matter where we might be on the scoreboard or what we're asking of them game plan/style wise.

So far i haven't witnessed this for more than maybe 1 half of footy, and that against mediocre opposition.

When i start seeing this from the "team" (not just a few individuals) for close to an entire 4 quarters against teams who sit outside the 8 (and the same but maybe with less effective results against the top 8), i'll start believing that Neeld & his team are at least moving this club in the right direction.

It's only my view, and nothing i say will make an ounce of difference to what happens at the MFC, Neeld or the players, but if you don't have motivation, inspiration, desperation and the team playing for EACH OTHER and the jumper....then i don't give a toss what game plans, styles, structures, fitness regimes (new rookies) etc you put in place. You'll still get a sub optimal result against quality opposition who find this extra "intangible" almost week in and week out even IF you are successful putting in the new regime and the players are generally able to stick to it.

Sure, top teams become top teams as a result of the best structures, fitness regimes, coaches, facilities, recruiting and development staff etc. But even with the best pre-match training and preparation. a coach still has to motivate them and make sure they (and he) find a way to win on match day.

It's my view that Neeld might have to water some "ideals" and expectations down a tad (time lines etc) that he started off with when starting his career in order to find some success with this group in his first year.

My challenge to Neeld (and the playing group) for what remains of the first half of this season...

FIND A WAY TO WIN

or at the very least, fight our matches out to the final siren and never say die!

The most embarrassing will come in Geelong.

I'm not so sure NSC

Kardinia Park (Simonds Stadium or whatever they call it now) is one of the narrowest grounds in the AFL if my memory serves me right. So at least the boys wont have to run as far around the boundaries. Might last 2 and a half quarters or even 3 on this ground!!

Nice, Sloonie. I did have a chuckle at that. I knew that statement would bite me in the ass. I think Bex and a couch should come with a melbourne membership.

A bottle of Jim Beam and a blindfold mightn't hurt either. Can someone wake me up when we've uncovered or recruited a gun midfielder or two please. The losses might not be quite as painful if we aren't gettin smacked there pretty much every week, especially against mediocre opposition. I think they refer to it as 'hope' or somethin

I let you work through the vagaries of crud vs spud Rusty. Never the let the real issues cloud your focus on the periphery.

Well when you've got about 1/3rd of the team that consists of that level of player.....i guess it/they will come under discussion once in a while. But thanks. Happy to cover all aspects of sub par performances when it raises it's ugly head around here...which unfortunately is quite a bit of the time lately.

P.S. Looks like you're enjoying some brain numbing Jim Beam (or wateva ur poison) as much as i am atm!

So you take a potential midfielder out and put in a forward. Good thinking.

You are really splitting hairs between Morton and Dunn. But to be fair Dunn did more up forward in 1 qtr in junk time than Morton did for the game.

If the sub was the problem to our performance I would be rapt. Its about issue 40 that we have to deal in the list of priorities.

Yep. You got the 40th issue right. But to be the best, even when fielding a sub par team like we did today, you still gotta leave no stone unturned....in any area...in any aspect of the game!

As to that first part about Morton being a "potential midfielder". I didn't put Morton in to start with and nor would i under any circumstances ....ever....unless half the list came down with a case of chicken pox or somethin. And if we had a few decent options, i would pick them above Dunn also. But I reckon Dunn would probably do a better (albeit still crappy and only marginally better) job if he was in the middle if asked in a head to head with Morton (Lucifer forbid!!).

And one more thing....i'm going to forgive you. It's Saturday night so like me, you must be on the [censored]. You'd have to be to consider Morton as a "potential" anything, let alone a potential mid fielder....

Bottoms up Rhino!

I just want to see him get seriously mad..and scare the bejeezus out of this bunch of nuff-nuffs.

Im curious as to what spin will eminate at the weekly media love-in.

I write this as I watch the Suns play decent footy....god we're in trouble

And just hit the front!!!

It's called inspiration. they're playing hard running, risk taking, play on at all costs, contested footy. And that's all you can ask at such a young age from most of the GC boys with such inexperience. McKenna's had more time than Neeldy i realise. But unless Neeldy wakes up in the next 6 to 8 weeks, realises our limitations (as we now stand list wise and keeps persisting with his plan to fit a square peg ie., our playing list, into his round hole).....then the future with this current list (until/unless he can radically change it to bring in the personnel he needs to fit into the square peg)....looks pretty f*%n grim.

P.S.....GC....led by an absolute super star. The cake...and the mid field icing all in one! What a fricken star.

Or hope that GWS delist Junior...

I had a dream that Gold Coast delisted Junior!!!

We exempt Neeld from blame for the debacle but we bake Royal when he has absolute dross (excluding Jones) to work with.

Demonland at its best.

Who said we've totally exempted Neeld? Haven't seen anyone say that on this thread till you. Are you a mind reader now Rhino??

The argument's more complex than "Just Neeld" and i can't see what's wrong with putting the spotlight on the individual charged with job of looking after the area of the game that we've failed in severely so far this year, especially against middle of the road opponents in Brisbane and Richmond.

From what's been dished up so far, it appears we've gone backwards in this area this year. Should've been capable of at least maintaining the mid field at some level of competitiveness for 3 to 4 quarters against mediocre (or sub par) opposition.

Rhino....at his best

What rubbish. We needed to do more in the midfield. Morton had his chance and failed. Dunn has spent nearly 8 years on the list doing that.

Don't get your knickers in a knot Rhino. Of course the mid field was crunched. Even blind freddy (and you) could have seen that.

What i'm talking about is a decision to play Morton in the starting 21. Hasn't played all year. Was the obvious sub IMO.

Without a quality mid field of course the forwards don't get the feed they need and nor do our mids contribute to the score board as often as they should and as often as you would expect from a quality mid field (if we had one)

I didn't choose the players on the list, i didnt choose the team today and nor am i saying Dunn's a gun or something. Just saying, with what we served up on the park today, Dunn should've been in the starting 21, not as sub.

I'm not the only one to question how we've managed the sub this year either.

6. Howe - great presentation, effort, run and disposal....with one minor error where he should've steadied from 50 late in the 2nd to have a better chance of getting a crucial shot on goal through the middle...keep it goin Hurricane!!

5. Watts - stood up today under fire.....still 2 pre seasons away from having a potential match changing impact though IMO...just needs the frame and enough games.

4. Clarke - made a few clangers but with the limited forward options he made a decent fist of it and showed some great leadership, particularly early in the 3rd, providing a rare goal through an assist with some guts, leadership, grunt and poise. Just might be our version of Cam Mooney! A potential A grader Super Star [no Cam wasn't quite that....but Mitch can be!!] for the Demons IMO...IF we can get the ball down there often enough

3. Grimes - started a little shakey but was in everything afterwards up till his TKO

2. Jones - Solid first half through the middle and pushing up.....not sure what happened thereafter albeit he was still trying his best

1. Trengove - doesn't have the AFL tank or frame at this point but keeps showing us glimpses of what will make him a very solid player and leader in a few years...potentially our version of 'Jimmy Bartel' if we can get the best out of him. A long way to go get there to reach that level but you never know. Shows glimpses of something special to come.

Bate has been tried there, and I know it's early, but I really don't think he's up to it.

Mind you, he's not alone.

Webjet.

I even saw Morton in there at one point. IF that's a "Royal Decision" ...to me that's an automatic termination of services. We got smashed in the middle in the 2nd half, just as we did against Brisbane.

Both mediocre opposition at best and we rolled.

And to leave Couch out today is just unforgivable. As much as i admire Tappy, he aint no mid fielder....yet. Certainly hadn't earned his place in the team ahead of Couch to this point and seemed off the pace. Not saying Couch would have made a massive difference to the result, but FGS Demons, reward performance where its been earned would ya!

On your bike Brian!!!

'Fix the problem and the blame will fix itself.' (That is, don't waste time blaming anyone.)

First, look at the playing list and assess its strengths and weaknesses - IMO the list consists of predominantly attack oriented players (compare Geelong with Collingwood for example).

Second, look at how to get the best out of the current playing list.

Third, invent a game plan to suit the list at the moment and then evolve it over time - don't try to enforce preconceived ideas or copy others as there is never enough time to do this and MFC needs to be ahead of copying which never works anyway.

In short, be flexible and make the most of what you have got - the great Norm Smith created the ruck-rover role to find a position for a member of his playing list who could play but didn't fit the conventional positions of the time, Ron Barassi!

This is spot on IMO Hard.

With a great team or at very least a solid one (from the previous season or two's form), you might be able to make such a major change overnight. Not with what we have on offer list wise.

Part of this is a marketing excercise in the short term as well. The club needed to at least win a few early games (Brisbane at the very least....and possibly this one!) in the short term to at least give "potential" new supporters/decent sponsors some hope as well as encouragement to jump on board and get more $$$ coming in.

Serving up this crud week after week is putting the whole future of the club (in the medium to long term) in jeapordy i reckon. Like you said, observe and analyse first, make necessary changes (with this team....ever so slowly), including list changes, thereafter. Rome wasn't built overnight and to me this is what Neeld is asking from a team (overall, some individual exceptions) that just can't go there (as the list stands now).

Such a massive change so soon, seeking the holy grail, is very bold and may well provide a great pay off within 2 to 5 years IF it was a different list. Unfortunately i can't see it with this one, not without a huge clearance sale of some existing stock and some very nice purchases the other way anyway. As you said, he just doesn't have the cattle to step up to his standard and style, which is such a change of direction from what most of the existing list were trained for in the last 3 years or so.

IMO It's no coincidence that some of the new players, who weren't in the team last year, seem to be standing up ok (eg., Clarke, Magner) versus some of the existing NQRs under the Neeld regime.

If MFC are in any way accountable then I cant see how Neeld can avoid the burners.

The opposition was ordinary, we were soft and crud.

The coach must wear.

I feel for Neeld give the Mifsid incident and other off field issues but his honeymoon is well and truly over for the on field.

Very much so.

This is no great opposition we faced today and we failed as soon as they turned up the wick a little.

And one bizarre decision for me is Neeld & the selection committee's decision to have Dunn on the bench as sub. To have any chance of winning, or to at least stem the damage in a loss, you need multiple avenues to goal and at this point Dunn is one of those few avenues/options (like him or not) that we didn't have (early enough) today. Mitch Clarke doing a solo act, no matter how courageous, isn't gonna win us many a footy match other than against GWS and GC....maybe. Morton should have been the sub. HUUUUGE error IMO. Basic stuff guys. Lift your game. Fast becoming one of the worst teams i've ever seen open a season for the MFC and crap decisions like this aren't helping.

I thought he'd been okay until "that" moment on the HFF. I detest the vitriol that gets said about Cale on here, but I will say that if that's his idea of a second effort, his stay in the senior team will be short.

Morton has "moments" pretty much anytime something's asked of him in a contest. I wouldn't be so forgiving as to single just that one out. His decision making, even when given gift balls well in the clear, is atrocious. Rarely lifts his head above what's directly coming towards him in about a 30m zone and even kicking to that contest he often just doesn't kick to the advantage of team mates. The Cale experiment is well and truly over. Time for the MFC to discard stick figures and relics that play 80's style VFL level football (at best). And by 80's style footy, one classic example is the amount of time Cale takes to decide on a disposal once he's marked. He rarely moves the ball on quickly enough which is a key aspect and basic skill needed in today's fast flowing game. Doesn't have it upstairs either. Not alone here though.

P.S. Much of the blame here lays with Neeld & the selection committee though. Morton should never have been a starter in this contest. Dunn on the bench (at worst and definitely not sub) to provide a 2nd avenue to goal. Morton as the sub. HUUUUGE error IMO. Basic stuff guys. Lift your game. Fast becoming one of the worst teams i've ever seen open a season for the MFC and crap decisions like this aren't helping.

WInning the contested marks at this point. 6-1 One big positive so far and something that stops the run and carry of the opposition for the time we have it and allows us to set up (offensively & defensively) and direct the game a little more to our advantage. Need to start winning more out of the middle obviously....losing this contest yet again although we started to turn this around towards end of quarter....nice to see finally. Martin into the ruck from here for the main Neeldy! Need his leap, mobility and better work at ground level through the middle. This is critical for mine. If he's in the middle for most of the game we have a chance, if not we're toast i reckon.

Richmond vs Melbourne Round 3, 2012 – Team Stats

Total games played

Tigers - 1,566 1,287 (Last Time They Met, Rnd 14 2011)

Demons – 1,354 1,356

Games Average

Tigers - 71 59

Demons – 62 62

Height Average

Tigers - 187cm

Demons – 189cm

Weight Average

Tigers - 86kg

Demons – 89kg

Number of players by category

0-49 Games

Tigers - 9 / 23 (number of players/average games played)

Demons - 10 / 23

50-99 Games

Tigers - 7 / 72

Demons - 8 / 77

100+ Games

Tigers – 6 / 142

Demons - 4 / 127

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Richmond vs Melbourne Round 3, 2012 – Team Stats

Total games played

Tigers - 1,566 1,287 (Last Time They Met, Rnd 14 2011)

Demons – 1,354 1,356

Games Average

Tigers - 71 59

Demons – 62 62

Height Average

Tigers - 187cm

Demons – 189cm

Weight Average

Tigers - 86kg

Demons – 89kg

Number of players by category

0-49 Games

Tigers - 9 / 23 (number of players/average games played)

Demons - 10 / 23

50-99 Games

Tigers - 7 / 72

Demons - 8 / 77

100+ Games

Tigers – 6 / 142

Demons - 4 / 127

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Moloney out with Groin soreness again this week so we should see Tom Couch get a run.

I can see us dominating the clearances this week but it's the ball use which needs to dramatically improve.

I think Mitch will kick a bag on Saturday and we'll get up comfortably.

Not just should have. He was equal top possession getter last week against Frankston and he's been in the best players in every match for the Scorps this year. Then we have Morton, who's also been doing fairly well but nothing spectacular for a more experienced AFL player, and Davey severely out of form and no time spent downstairs. Then Tappy, who was not mentioned in the best players by any review that i've seen to this point. And no, this is not a witch hunt on any particular player, just calling it as i see it.

So if we're basing our selection criteria on "Effort" and "Form".... and necessity ie., 1 player down in the mid (Beamer) with a ready made AFL sized frame to replace him who's racked up the most possessions in the VFL the week before, also playing through the mid, and who's also been in the best in all 3 weeks so far for Casey ....the most deserved and logical choice is.................................

COUCH!!!!!!

......Ummm.....Nup....sorry mate....this is the Melbourne Demons here....we don't tend to reward players who've earned their place....there's other more important and complex factors at play here including match ups etc that you supporter plebs would never get (Yeh, THAT'S YOU Rusty...you know nothing about this modern game....so just go back to playin poker!!).

That's right, we're going with past performers, one of whom has spent no time trying to find his form downstairs (Davey), and another who's really only had 1 full VFL game since injury and didn't show all that much and probably could have done with at least one more in Tappy (who i'm sure will be a great addition when he's had a little more game time and fully earned his spot and gained some form etc...a big Tappy fan here if he can get and stay fit).

And then there's Morton, who based on his performance at Casey, could be argued has at least earned his return. But hasn't Couch also earned his place ahead of Davey and Tappy at this point?

It's my belief (and just my op) that rewarding performance, rather than reputations, should have a more positive reinforcing impact on the playing group in the short to medium term where it counts....on the field!

Oh well, WTF do i know....

Anyone for cards??

B)

So true .. time to take a breath and post some positives on this site .. FWIW JW has been in our best both weeks in what have been disappointing performances

<<< That's my favourite Melbourne Demon logo ever Weedster....i think...Lets bring it back and stick it on our flags it's a beaut!!! (source pls....wouldn't mind sticking it on a jumper lol?)