Demon Dynasty

Watts taking a couple of big contested grabs that would have been too much for him last year.

I believe he did this in a few games last year as well, this isn't a new occurrence IMO.

The Good

The pre-match tribute, especially the banner. One of the best i've ever seen. Congratulations to all involved in the cheer squad. Robbo's MC'ing. The number of younger people from Reach who came along and to those who paid tribute on the field. Seeing a chic in a Roy Boys jumper pre match (along with a few other teams) coming to pay tribute.

Finally seeing some semblance of a forward press being implemented with a degree of success. Pretty sure we may have kept the ball in our forward line a fair degree more than i can recall in previous games this year (percentage of time in forward line will be an interesting stat versus previous weeks)

Seeing our boys fight it out in the 3rd for a change and trying to make a fist of it.

Stoppage work: Improved somewhat (again the stats will tell the tale i guess). Moloney after a quiet first quarter found the pace of the game (and Jamar) and created some time & space for himself and the team (disposal efficiency/effectiveness STILL needs some work lol) and had a stand out 3rd, Jones at many contests in an under (work rate was great), Mckenzie had moments and tackled quite well, Magner had a couple of moments and will only improve. Bail added something to the outside which has been missing till now, apart from the Jones boys' efforts outside (when he wasn't in and under as well lol).

Watts when up forward added something with his mobility and positioned himself well (1st half).

Davey gave us something up forward early.

Morton improved his game on previous efforts and lifted to at least provide some run and carry around half back.

Howe's attack on the contest early (including his hangers!)

Clark's attack on the footy and hard pack contests. Courage unquestionable. Appears to have picked up some excellent habits and hardness from his mentor, John O' Brown. We finally have some structure/options when he's on the park.

Tom McDonalds 2nd half improvement (marginal but still an improvement)

Jamar's tap work and link up (on occasions) with Moloney, particularly in the 2nd and 3rd.

Moloney's movement at the stoppages in the 3rd quarter and a few odd displays during other quarters. Finally someone hitting the ball ups with momentum! Thank you Neeld & FD! Just need more than 1 quarter of this happening and more than one player applying it, although i have a feeling Jones and McKenzie were also trying to apply this method on a few odd occasions, maybe without the success Moloney had a few times in the 3rd.

Clark getting up and showing plenty of guts after the crunch

Bate gave us something and a bit of run & carry at times

The Bad

Forward Press: Davey unwilling to close down on his opponent (i think it was Murphy) early in the match when we didn't have the ball and the ball was still in our forward zone (hard press can't be hard if even one player continues to allow their opponent 15+ meters when the opposition have the ball in our forward line)

Set shots, especially a few early from almost directly in front.

The move of Watts from up forward to HB when the game was there to be won.

The move of Jones into the forward line (probably resting) late in the third (i think) and Morton into the middle which cost us momentum and potentially any chance of hitting the front.

The lack of a replacement for Jones (late in the 3rd, assuming he was moved up forward to be rested) and his mobility/agility around the middle and stoppages which left too much up to Moloney and McKenzie. Couch???

The lack of a decent back up ruckman which might have seen us take the momentum away from the doggies with Minson clearly wilting/tiring in the last but Jamar also tiring/struggling a little.

Some of Jamar's tap work to the doggies' advantage in the 2nd half.

J Macs disposal by foot at times...not AFL standard

T Ms disposal by foot at times in 1st half....not AFL standard

Wattsy's efforts off HB in the 3rd. Not AFL standard. Time for a rest in the 2's if we can afford it.....which we probably can't or play him up forward from here. Alternatively move him to FB, Chip out to CHB....dump Garland for now (form is shot for now).

No true small forward crumber to sweep and score off the spillages up forward and chase down the odd opponent when they did so.

Dahlhause's game. Pretty darn impressive for a 14 game rookie.

The Ugly

Our ability to pull a clanger out of our bum when you would least want it and under average or little pressure, assisting the opposition to score too many cheap goals

General speed of ball movement around the stoppages and a lack of a classy outside runner, who can break away AND finish with a effective disposals into the 50 to a hit up target, the hot spot or a long shot at goal!

Garlands' decision very late in the 3rd to go ring around the rosey outside 50 from his deliberate boundary free kick in, instead of the percentage play (at that point in the game) and go to the hot spot.

Dunn's general forward play. Sub par, particularly his lead up decisions which (on the odd occasions they occurred) were mostly either poorly timed (or just unable to get to the contest ...poor i5o delivery probably contributed) or heading in the wrong direction when team mates were under pressure up the ground.

Our i50 delivery....again

Our disposal by foot...again

Our lack of handballs and our inability to link 2 to 3 quick handballs together most of the time without fumbling, or just unable to do it quickly or in succession consistently or successfully.

Poor options in the back line at times (eg., Rivers going wide in the last, instead of straight up the guts ....with player/s free and being well behind on the scoreboard...no game to save...we were losing....take calculated/clever risks and try and win or at least get closer and put scoreboard pressure on your opponent!!)

Watty's 2nd half drop out

Garland's impact & general play

J Macs impact & general play (effort not questioned)

T Macs 1st half (poor/panic disposal)

Tappy's impact when subbed

Trenner's form (1st half)

Our inability to shut down Dahlhause (commendable effort from Bartram (Moloney's attempts to smash him) & others but we just didn't have any answers/cattle who could do the job in the end)

The fact that we couldn't quite get ourselves up against such sub par opposition.

Looking at what lies ahead in terms of the how far away we are from finding enough "cattle" to just become reasonably competitive and win a handful of games. Some tough times and years ahead....again.

Melbourne Demons vs Western Bulldogs Round 4, 2012 – Team Stats

Total games played

Demons - 1,529 (Last time they played, Rnd 15 2011) 1,274

Bulldogs – 1,965 2,178

Games Average

Demons - 69 58

Bulldogs – 89 99

Height Average

Demons - 188cm

Bulldogs – 187cm

Weight Average

Demons - 88kg

Bulldogs – 87kg

Number of players by category

0-49 Games

Demons - 9 / 23 (number of players/average games played)

Bulldogs - 10 / 19

50-99 Games

Demons - 7 / 81

Bulldogs - 3 / 73

100+ Games

Demons – 6 / 125

Bulldogs - 9 / 173

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

3 matches is not enough data to make it meaningful for now but FWIW....

We're ranked 5th (on average) in Contested Marks so far versus the rest of the comp. In comparison to our other stats at the moment , then yep, at first glance we're looking pretty good here.

But one problem is, this stat doesn't tell you "where" those marks have been taken on the field. For example, we might be taking most of them in defense with our defense under such intense pressure every week, having a reasonable backline that defends ok with a fairly high percentage of our "contested mark" stats happening down back. Can't be sure of course. Watching the game with the naked eye i agree it does look like we're doing ok here.

The only stat that tells you where marks in general are taken at this point is "Marks Inside 50". And on that count we're ranked equal last with Gold Coast. Although Sydney aren't doing too badly so far this year and they're ranked equal 2nd last with GWS. So go figure.

Again, i think the source data, although probably quite accurate, isn't robust enough at this early stage. Might be best to revisit this after round 11 when most teams would have played each other at least once. Would be interesting to see along with a few other key stats.

If Bail is delisted at season's end I will be very disappointed. I think he has the goods and just needs to deliver on a consistent basis.

Same goes for Petterd. And as much **** as I'm going to get for saying it, Morton. They're all still quite young players, and a change in coach could create a major change in attitudes and output. Give them all at least one more season and see what they can do.

I will save all comments on Jurrah until after his court date.

By "One more season" i'm hoping (re: Morton & Petterd) you mean the remainder of this season, which is pretty much an entire season

I've got to admit that i've got mixed feelings about Clark's performance to date. He's done just as many things to annoy me, as he has to please me.

To me, he could be that monster forward we need, but he doesn't yet play like a forward. I rarely see him using multiple leads to put himself in a position of advantage by out-maneuvering his opposition deffender. Rather he just makes one or two leads or just expects the ball to be kicked long and high to him. I'm not sure if that's the gameplan or just him though.

With that said, I do feel better about the team with him in the side, but I also believe he need to work on his ability to play as a forward. I can actually understand why Matthews ranked him as only an average forward based on what I've seen to date. He could be so much better.

Big men take longer to learn and mature PM as you know. Don't forget, apart from Jake & Gawny, he's the tallest player in our team and unless Jake gets a run, maybe the tallest for the remainder of the year.

Give him a few more seasons (at least 2 more after this anyway) and i'm pretty sure you'll find he'll play the percentages better, his running patterns will slowly become 2nd nature and better timed etc. I agree he's far from top line at this point but at least he's having a red hot go and giving us a decent target. In addition, the whole team is making a serious number of clangers at this point right across the park (including Clark), as well as some pretty average delivery i50 much of the time....so we need to cut Clark (and our other permanent forwards) a little slack until everyone improves across the park (Clark included).

Bottom line, he's a work in progress but just might be a super KPF for us all going well and given enough experience/time.

I have a strong hunch he might end up being a great leader, either spiritually or officially, as well.

No! he has not made Any changes to the Culture at Melbourne. Not yet. And it would take up to ten years to get the culture ingrained enough to become a legacy.

He is just starting, to TRY To Change the Culture.

IMO, it will really start @ the End of this Year, with the broom, Brushing away... Let It Bristle...

A nice point re the legacy. And no doubt a very hard task for the whole FD really on the culture change, especially after so many years in the wilderness. Hopefully we can also play a reasonably attractive brand when we do start winning in order to attract some new fans and build the membership base. No doubt success will breed success on that front to some degree.

Trenners at FB? Much prefer him in the midfield. He's not big enough to be a FB. He would get dominated by the Riewoldts, Clokes, Waites, Hurleys, Goodeses, Tippetts...need I go on?

No no. Not Trenners at FB GTG

Wattsy!!

He'll get dominated at times too...and i'm not saying permanent. Just this year as part of his learning till he builds up his frame and tank. Good learning experience. The better forwards can show him the way ....running patterns, body work etc.

P.S. I read and responded to the thread from WYL as Jack... for Jack Watts...he was of course referring to Trenners....my bad

Fully Agree...has been out of the radar so far this year on the field....We need a Big Game Jack "If it is to be...it's up to me...."

Played allover the shop. He'll end up being "Jack of all trades, master of....." if we're not careful.

Time to give him some set roles and ask him to learn them. One example might be.... Play him at FB for remainder of season and get him to learn off the best forwards in the game by trying to shut them down and run off them/be creative when possible.

Move Chip to CHB....Garland out.

Just a thought.

As the great Barass once said to Healey.... "You give me possessions and i'll shut up"

It's time the boys just got on with getting on...and Find a Way to Win!

Over and out!!!

Martin in the main rucking role ....or Jamar. Can't see Martin anywhere else other than ruck in the middle. Will see him in and at the contest more often. See what he's got to offer. Nothing to lose given where our season's at.

Can't afford 2 ruckmen off the bench though (and Martin not very convincing up forward or elsewhere so far). So for the remainder of the season.....

2 to 3 weeks Martin as the main ruck.... 2 to 3 weeks Jamar. Lets see how they (and the team) perform in this role going solo. Review them and our requirements at the end of the season maybe.

Just like to see how he rolls through the middle again prior to season finish without Jamar as back up. Seemed to do it quite well last year when we asked him to step up.

If only ...

You got more posts than me so you can't be short of a few yourself mate

And next time....bring it on if you feel like havin a go....no need to feel so shy and limp wristed

Agreed. Although don't mind Tappy staying as we need more games into him and he isn't going to do a little nugget in his pants when the ball comes near him. We need more players like this.

I forgot to mention Davey. How is this guy getting games? Am I watching a different game? Getting a little sick of this conservative approach to match selection. Hey, MFC selection committee- It is broken, fix it!

Agree re the nugget ....albeit its not the most pleasant thought lol. He'll probably be running around picking up someone else's nugget though .....think tall, skinny and ....well u get the picture

As for Davey....the team is so far behind the money in terms of speed around the contest and quick ball movement.... i reckon Neeld is just praying for Davey to grow his old third leg again. When Davey gets it, he generally uses it well if he isn't under too much pressure (like some others)....the problem is that atm he's rarely getting it and we have no obvious (better) replacements with leg speed and decent disposal skills by hand and foot. Jetta probably if he was fit. Bennell probably if he could play better than Davey (but he doesn't). Blease if he could be bothered playing lol.

Let the coaching panel work it out anyway. That's what they're getting paid to do...i'm getting a headache just thinking bout it

Final Bench:

I/C: Cale Morton, Lynden Dunn, Joel Macdonald, James Sellar

Wow..... ring in the amazing changes Demons. Honestly, how we can't find a place for Couch, assuming he stays as emergency....but we can find one for J Mac and retain Morton...words fail me. Bate, Morton staying? Even Tappy who i'm sure will be better for the run...IF he's played down back somewhere....but still....hasn't earned it based on last weeks performance (or any other in the VFL so far). Common guys. This is such an uninspiring plodding club right now, even off the field (selection wise). If we're gonna keep rewarding under performance then IMO we get what we deserve on the field....and eventually it'll come back to bite our arse off the field too!

You'll find decent goers (even though they might not be up to the required grade in the wash up) like Couch & Magner......will be off elsewhere pretty quickly once they get a sniff of this BS. Then we'll be left with the cream...like Morton, J Mac, Bate, Davey, Bartram etc ....who'll play for as long as we keep giving them a go....UFB MFC.

At the moment, I just want to see us nail the basics. Win the clearances. Win the hard ball gets. Higher tackle count. Defensive pressure all over the ground. All the urgency stuff.

And I want to see us unearth more players who can find the ball themselves, and then use it properly.

We're not a top 4 team. Unfortunately we're the complete opposite. Let's concentrate on nailing the basics for now.

And cop a tip - Ross Lyon, as good a coach as his is, wouldn't have this list scaring the likes of Carlton, Hawthorn, WCE and Geelong at the moment.

It would take Lyon TIME too.

I doubt anyone would really. Took Mick 12 at the Pies to reach the ultimate, and 6 after moving into the Westpac centre and having the kitchen sink thrown at him and the team. Hope it doesn't take anywhere near 6 years or more for us, but i think i've now woken up to the enormity of the task ahead. And that's just to make us competitive against the middle rung teams. Ughh

And thats why I left Jones out. You are right he aint quick but he aint as slow as the others.

Hec....had to have a Jim Beam and lie down after that one. Was expecting a classic RR bake prior to opening

Watching this mid field, especially versus some of what else is on offer in the 8 etc, i dunno. I reckon we had it better when Wells and Alves were running round there in the 70's lol. Probably my memory is shot... but it just feels real bad atm. Can you remember a period when we were in such a state yourself? Not saying we've ever had amazing set ups but jeez.... pretty soul destroying atm,

There's life in the old Demon yet! Reckon our membership would've surpassed last year by now if we had won a few of our early ones or at least gone down fighting tooth & nail. Anyway, fingers crossed for Sunday. Off field that's another piece of good news at least. Keep it goin fellas.

I think Dunn positions OK when the ball is coming into the forward 50. But he appears to me to have no idea where to go when the ball is on its way out. Once again, a player who doesn't read defence. Whether it's his own deficiency or that of his coaches I remain unsure but I think it's the latter, because he's not alone in that regard.

Agreed. The opposition has to be pretty close when they take possession....or of a similar pace for Dunn or pretty much anyone in our forward 50 to lay a tackle lol. Not too much closing speed around them there 'Demonland' hills atm in a general sense eh

I could be wrong about this but I have a feeling within 5-7 years there will be no way to differentiation between inside & outside mids - you will have to play both roles on demand by the coach or you will struggle at elite level.

Just a thought.

I guess anything's possible given the way the game evolves now days, although i think the likelihood of finding them in a numbers sense is pretty slim in order to offer dual skills to all clubs through the middle. In the genre' you're talking i'm thinking elite such as Mitchel, Ablett, Judd and maybe Chappy. Probably a few other elites (who are both elite inside and outside) you might think of but i'm guessing they most likely wouldn't be gifted in both areas in the way these four are. So i guess what i'm saying is, you might be right, but whether there would be enough gifted players offering both elite skills inside and out, i'd have my doubts at this point (based on past experience anyway).

Dunn was pick 14 and has had 8 years on the list. I guess you were done playing players on potential arent we?

Take it up with the Club on Petterd. They might learn something from you or conversely....

Its a hair split.

Playing Magner, Couch and Moloney together gives me an impression of ssllooww.

Here's a thought Moloney pulls up sore pre match and they play Couch......might be insurance.

We are slow .....or bumbling....regardless of who we put in there ATM....with the exception of Jones maybe. You've left Jones out and i realise he's being used on the ball a fair bit as well but i feel he can offer us something of a pace change up if used well. Not saying he's super quick but his agility, burst speed and quicker/more precise decision making (ie., quick kick into the forward 50 if needed) is a rung or 2 above the other 3 atm.

I'd rather hit the opposition hard with tough hard nosed mids through the middle anyway at this point (given what's on offer for us as an alternative right now... ie., pretty much Zilch!) and stick it to them in the body on body with these three plus Jonesy rotating, than get smacked both on the inside and outside as we are at present having hulks like Morton running through there or Tappy/Trenners who have absolutely no idea in the middle (lost sheep). We need someone with genuine pace/agility/speed/clean/quick ball handling for sure....but until we uncover them, we gotta stop the bleeding and give our boys a slightly better chance to stem the flow....and give our defense a bit more time to set up....and a decent rest once in a while. Our defense is getting pummeled every week due to our crap performance in the middle (among other crap performances around the ground lol) atm.

1. But Dunn and Couch play the same roles? Hardly mate. Pretty sure Dunn runs along the wing alot as does Morton, difference is Dunn is not scared of the ball, the opposition, the crowd, seagulls....

2. Ahhhhh he leads the way when you compare him to the rest of our players at the moment though, still our best chance of laying a tackle anywhere in the forward half

Totally agree. Doesn't lay many but he's one of the few that does....and not only that....when he does he at least sticks a decent tackle, unlike most others in our forward line such as Green, Petterd, Davey, Watts and Martin (when they're in there) who often get brushed aside in the tackle or lay a neck high tackle (which doesn't involve too much body on body.....soft way out IMO). Maybe Howe the only other who's able to actually get his hands on the opposition and stick a decent tackle in the forward line recently.

Not only that, if you watch Dunn's bodywork and positioning in the forward line, he has an ok read on the play and a very capable contested mark using his body pretty well in the contest. With the exception of Clark, uses the limited opportunities given in our forward line reasonably well compared to our other non-existent/inconsistent forwards. And no i'm not saying Dunn's the answer up forward long term, nor a stellar performer for us in a comparative sense to other club's top forwards by any means. But, until we find someone better....he's a must have. And as i've said many times before, one of the few players who can kick a roost goal from 50 or just outside in the team from a set shot. There's few others who can apart from Howe and Jones. He also doesn't take any crap....which doesn't make anyone an automatic "in" i realise, but at least he gives back as good as he gets. Downside is he's pretty slow paced and sluggish as forwards go but then he has plenty of mates lol.

Would have thought Dunn would keep Morton out not Couch

Without question....

Although, this is the MFC we're talking about. So i'm pretty sure Dunn will still keep Couch out...with Morton offering such 'potential' amazing closing speed, sure handling, super agility and great tackling skills....as well as brute strength in the contested footy stakes, he can't be overlooked and should be given as many chances as needed to prove himself i reckon

Agree we are far too slow with moving the ball on with decision making compared to the more experienced teams.

Guys like Bate and even Grimes are slow to hit up a teammate on first option. Indecision helps opposition teams close down our options. And adds to the pressure and turn overs.

You see the Cats, Blues move on quickly and deliver on the move. Time and again we seem to take the mark, go to ground, get up, get distance from the mark, then decide.

It's one of the many aspects under the heading "nous" that our team lacks.

Lets not go there! I realise all teams turn the ball over...but jeez....sure made some bad clangers lately. Hate to be a forward looking for decent delivery into our forward line too

I guess the only way is up from here given the inexperience factor....gulp!

Another comment he made during that interview rings true for us and it was about Freo getting a win against the Cats helped with player buy in to the new approach he brings. The loses we are having must make it harder to get buy in from our players, it's human nature and will make Neelds task all the harder. Let's hope a win this week get's things moving in the right direction.

Yep....i think he was asked something along the lines of "what was the main focus for you when taking on the new team?". And his response went something like "The biggest key for me is without doubt get a few early wins on the board to fuel the belief factor".

One of the reasons we desperately needed the win against Brisbane first up IMO, especially given the trip that was up next. Freo have the luxury of 'genuine' home games to ensure they're at least a reasonable chance of winning a few early ones anyway, plus a much advanced/more senior playing list of course which showed up against the gritty win against the Cats.

One of the most honest interviews i've heard in a while from a senior "rated" AFL coach. Of course he wont be giving away his most guarded philosophies over the airwaves but it's still quite a good listen for anyone wanting an insight from an experienced AFL coach.

Ross just calling it as he sees it. And he's actually a pretty likeable funny guy to listen to.

Says he has given Mark Neeld a bit of support as well.

Now nothing i say is new to any footy punter out there, but a very interesting point ,and where i think we have failed this year big time so far, "move the ball quickly or die versus the press" or just in general. An aspect to St Kilda's game he says he started trying to improve on last year and no doubt realised after seeing the Pies enforce their press in the GF...twice lol.

Another point he makes note of is the play on percentage. Many other teams are playing on much more often than we are (obviously). Moving the ball with precision and using pacey outsiders as well around the clearances. . 2 to 3 lightning handball gives/receives (or a short pass if in the clear following first 1 or 2 handballs) until they find an outside player to run and carry or belt the ball forward (quickly) to a contest.

We are basically the opposite from what i've seen so far. We don't play on much after a mark. We're unsure, UNSKILLED and SLOOOW (both in decision making, ball use and pace/burst speed) around the clearances and pretty much any congestion. Not to mention the fact that we look lost/disinterested and very slow (or just physically incapable) in pressuring our opponents when we don't have the ball.

I just hope the doggies aren't as quick with their ball movement and leg speed as they once were (generally) around the ground. Otherwise we're more than likely in for a world of pain on Sunday (again).

List needs a pretty big injection of highly skilled quick ball users (generally) and an injection of outside pace with similar ball use skills IMO (among other requirements like a top line mid or 2) if we're to see any substantial improvement inside 5 to 7 years. No doubt Neeld & co. will be addressing this as part of their filtering/planning etc.

The Interview

Part 1

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Fremantle-Coach-Ross-Lyon-Part-1/4347

Part 2

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Fremantle-Coach-Ross-Lyon-Part-2/4348