nutbean

"Paul is dead."

You are way too old Tony. So am I - you beat me to the punch on this exact post by about 30 seconds

Mooney was never afraid of a serious contest. Very little ball left his area easily.

Nailed it in one - There is where we differ and there is a gulf in opinion on this site. I do see Dunn playing in front and making the contest and working hard defensively ( except against Hawks where the whole team was insipid for periods of the game). I dont think he has recaptured the highs of his 2010 season ( as havent a few others) but I see him working hard. This is the way coaches are reading it ( if you place any store on their player review).

Its obvious others see it differently.

so you agree dunn doesn't do enough since he doesn't average two goals a game like chris dawes?

So if you are happy with Dawes like I am - Dawes 30 goals last year from 20 games, Dunn - 26 goals from 18. This year both have played four games - Dunn 7 goals and Dawes 11 goals. Their 2010's were remarkably similar. Dawes output this year has been much better as opposed to Dunn's especially in his tackling.

(Would rather have Dawes as I think he will be a genuine A grader as opposed to Dunn who still has the potential to be more than handy)

hey old man... just explain where what i said was wrong instead of glib remarks...are you capable of that in between taking your meds ??

Give and you will get ...capische

How about this

There is far to much emphasis placed by theorists on forwards playing a defensive game.

I am figuring if you ask 17 coaches of AFL today they would comment

We place great emphasis on forwards having a strong defensive side to their game

I just think that your football 101 is football 101 circa 1980. The two powerhouses last year (Saints and Pies) both had demands that their forwards were defensively minded and Essendon great start to the season is being put down the defensive mindset of the whole team that was missing under Knights.

Persisting with Dunn is persisting with mediocrity and we won't win a Premiership doing that.

Say hello Cameron Mooney - twice ! ( well actually thrice). Coaches see different things in players then obviously we do.

He's done a good job covering both Swan and Shaw at the same time!

Agree he's important as a defensive forward, but he's badly out of form and not finding the ball enough.

2010 Dunn would be nice to have back. If his drop in possession count is due to instructions, then the instructions are wrong.

You corrected me because I was wrong ! (glad I put the disclaimer in).

He certainly has a purple patch towards the end of the year which is what we should judge him for - if you compare his 18 games last year against his 4 this year - he is tracking about the same ( two less disposals but a slightly higher mark and goal rate). The interesting one is his tackle count is down so that does indicate that he is not going hard enough as he did last year.

Dunn has all the physical attributes of a mature bodied AFL footballer...just doesn't do enough...like miller never did enough....miller was only ever any good when we had neitz around.

Glad you brought up the big Neita - perfect example of how the game has changed and why Dunn is in the team. Over Neitz's 300 plus games he laid less than a tackle a game. Fantastic player and goal kicker but would have had to add another dimension to his game if he was to play now - defense. My only criticism of the big boy ( and dont get me wrong - most of the greats of the time - except Jason Dunstall) is letting the ball out of the forward line with way too much ease - different time - different game.

To me Chris Dawes is the new breed of forward - almost averaging two goals a game and ferocious defensively.

Ricky Petterd offers much more IMO, especially as an attacking threat. If Dunn's best ability is to keep a tight rein on an opponent, I'd suggest that Ricky Bobby being a continual threat (which Dunn is not) more than occupies his opponents time.

I will take into consideration that Ricky has played half the games of Dunn ( 37 as opposed to 74) but they are almost identical on goals kicked per game and that doesnt take into account the amount of time that Dunn played as tagging midfielder and Dunn being better defensively. So whilst Ricky still is establishing himself, to suggest that he offers more as an attacking threat doesnt stand up to scrutiny (at this stage).

What I do like about Ricky is his kamikaze approach to the contest ( boy's gonna get hi'self killed)

oh...and btw....for all the new age football scientists... teh best thing a forward can do is...... kick goals...

ALl this crap about being offensively defensive or defensively negating or impacting the rebounding bloke all forgets the primary role of football....to kick goals....to assist in kicking goals and so on.

The ideaof a forward is to worry the scoreboard and worry the opposition...not worry about the oppostion...its their job to worry about you !!!

And whilst you are at it - lets get rid of all taggers - lets let Swan run free - just make our mids get more kicks than he does so he has to worry about us. What is the difference between the Bombers last year and this year ? The emphasis on defense.

Sorry to disappoint but it is not new age football science - it is the way the game is played. So much attack is now created from the back half that all teams at some stage use a defensive forward to try and shut down that drive. Correct me if I am wrong but didnt Dunn play on Heath Shaw twice last year and negate his set up play from the back ?

dunn is a shocking kick at goal...i don't know why you would say he's a better kick than miller...not even an argument.

I said he is a better kick than Miller. Miller has played 134 games for 90 goal and 61 behinds, Dunn has played 74 games for 69 and 51 behinds so you are right - on the statistics Miller was more accurate ( but never kicked enough goals ) - My observations tell me that I would rather have Dunn kicking from 30 metres out than Miller but thats just opinion ( again its opinion but Dunn takes quite a few shots from long distances - look at Millers easy misses on Friday night). The most interesting stat and why he is in the team - Dunn has hit 200 tackles compared to Millers 161 and thats in half the amount of games.

We talk about being a strong man which Miller was perceived as for the first two thirds of his career - he didnt lay nearly enough tackles.

GWS are strong on Martin, with his ethnicity, tough way about him and his tatts. The thinking is the locals would really relate to him. They've dangfled the carrott. If the Tiges were likely to lose Martin with AFL sanction, they would love to pickup Scully (a dyed in wool Tiges supporter) from the roundabout. GWS were into Viney in a big way and were looking at ways to get him, or ontrade him for another Deal with the Crows at one stage.

If that did happen, (Martin > Scully) then what would be the Dees payout?

Martin is contracted until the end of 2013 - happened late last year - takes him out the GWS window of opportunity. GWS can dangle anything they like - can only happen with Richmonds blessing - so the question remains - do you think that Richmond would trade out Martin for Scully ? I don't.

I also put on the record that it really mean squat who you barrack for growing up as a kid - The Ox was in the Hawthorn cheersquad and Judd was mad about the Demons. Means little

Yeah, so If he was picked up by GWS, then ontraded to Richmond,,, for Martin to GWS???

I think Scully will be an absolute gun - but do you seriously believe that Richmond would trade Martin to GWS to get Scully ? It like trading Judd to get Hodge. Never happen.

anything at all, like sitting in the stands with his teammates watching us play, for example. That would be a nice indication that he is interested in being part of the club. I saw Jordie at the ground the other day, didn't see Tom there

Serious question - And you know that he doesnt attend the games ?

Zing.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Normally Scully calls me every week just because he knows I supports Melbourne and thus want to know what he's up to.

I disagree with you again C&B - this is a SUCCESSFUL attempt at humour

pft. we don't know what this business trip is all about so let's put that aside for a second

if he's in the membership ad that's good, but its just game footage to sell memberships, its not showing his face right now is it.

you know what I mean

Actually I don't know what you mean - so please tell me - what exactly would you like to see Scully doing ? What would you like him to be saying.

dunn is our new brad miller.

it's interesting to note both bate, dunn and pettard are averaging around a goal a match for us. which just isn't enough

I think the call on Dunn is harsh and the three players you mentioned are all so different.

1/ Ricky Petterd plays the mid size forward role - he can take a grab but I dont see him competing with Dunn or Bate for a position

2/ Bate - I am concerned for his future - he seems to be treading water ( and taking in great gulps of sea water) - when he is on he can be good but he doesnt create enough defensive pressure

3/ Dunn was settled in the forward line to be the "defensive forward" that has become fashionable. Since so much drive is created from the half back line teams want a shut down forward to take out the creatives that set up play in the back half. Whilst he hasnt been as good as last year I think that Dunn has done his job ( would like to think he was a 25-30 goal per season goal kicker)

Comparing him to Brad Miller - firstly Dunn is a better kick at goal, Dunn is not as one dimensional and has better defensive skills a a forward.

Demons wind up football review

It looks like there certainly is some rumblings from within....

how did we reach that conclusion ? this process started in the summer before a ball was even kicked.

I would have thought that neither yourself or Nasher would really need it pointed out to you that Scully is the controversial figure at the moment, not Trenners or McKenzie

just seems to me that the club would be putting Scully in our faces a bit more if they were confident we are keeping him. I know if I was in Schwab or Bailey's position I would be looking to hose down some hysteria by showing the kid participating in the club in some way.

The club is taking a business as usual approach. Scully is in the "let out your demons 2" advert and he is on this "business trip" to Sydney. He is not the face of the Demons, he is not in the leadership group. He may be interviewed a little if he was playing but he ain't. The club by not pandering to hysteria is sending a message - "nothing to see here - move on".

It might mean he's a 19 year old footballer concentrating on his rehabilitation.

Now that you mention it, we haven't heard from Jack Trengove himself much in the last few weeks either. Uh-oh...

(yes we have !.....)

but there ARE a lot of threads to this story and they SHOULD be looked at in conjuction

for one I am surprised that more people haven't noticed we have seen/heard very little from Scully himself in the last few weeks and what that might mean. It's like he's not on our list at all right now

Conjunction, conschmunction - there are threads and there are facts - Two facts only - he hasn't signed with us and it a fact that he says he hasn't signed with them. Everything else is speculation without foundation.

A question - Where do you want to see him and what on earth has he got to say ?

(We havent heard or seen McKenzie either)

I didn't see what you did.

Dunn gets his couple of goals, does his couple of chases, shows a couple instances of false bravado, but I also see the short steps, the skirting contests, the chases that never were, and the bravado he doesn't show.

His drop in application from the end of 2010 to the start of 2011 is marked and Petterd will take his spot before too long.

Especially now that we will have a ruckman permanently in the square.

I must be marking too low ! I know the player review can paint too rosey a picture but I actually thought this week that the review took some shots at a few players - Frawley, Garland, Davey. It described Dunn as performing a team role and thats what I saw. I would be surprised if he is dropped - if he is then we need to question the player review that they put out every week. (which is a given - it should be questioned !)

no man you just don't get it

the idea of scully leaving is so ridiculous that the correct way to discuss it is with absurd and unsuccessful attempts at humour

I thought the attempt was successful but thats another story.

I disagree with you - the idea of Scully leaving is NOT ridiculous.

The piecing together of threads of information and loads of disinformation and applying illogical and unfounded assumptions to the information/disinformation that cannot be reasonably be argued IS ridiculous.

On the basis of what we have been told by all parties and the set of circumstances at hand you can logically argue he may stay - you can even argue that you will dismiss all information at hand and what we have been told and suggest he may go. To state as Freak has done that he is categorically gone has no foundation in fact.

Hence my attempts at humor (still a bit miffed that you think them unscuccessful)

trying to be funny, but no

Seriously - Cale Morton did tweet that about them going up for a business trip. What business could these five possibly have in Sydney ? Until all five are signed on contracts for life ( and their offspring under the father/son/daughter rule) I am assuming they are gone.

I have now watched Sundays game twice. Is Lynden Dunn having the same impact as the second half of last year ? no. Is he worthy of his place in the team ? I think so. He pushes up hard. He does create pressure and he is on using his bigger body to the teams advantage. I like that he plays in front. I thought he did ok on Sunday. People are calling for Ricky Bobbie to replace him and as much as I love Petterd, Dunn plays an entirely different role and I think we need what he offers in the team. The players review gave some pointed comments regarding some players but seemed happy with Dunn's performance so maybe they saw what I saw.

OMG - Cale Morton just tweeted that he is off to Sydney with Chip,Trenners, Jack Watts, good times grimes and SCULLY for a business trip.

I heard from the hostess serving drinks in economy, who told the ground crew, who told baggage handling that found my lost suitcase from 1974 that Chip having signed a four year deal is acting as the lawyer for the other 4. Chip is getting a spotters fee for doing a package deal. Scully to GWS next year, Trenners the year after and in 2014 Grimes and Watts in a straight swap for Josh Fraser solving our much vaunted second ruck problem.

Book mark it !