nutbean

He had some off field trouble last year unlike Sylvia,Moloney,Ward,Ox etc.

Martin for Trengove

Darling for Cook

Mckernan for Strauss

Hurley for Watts

Hannebery/Beams for Blease

Dangerfield/Rioli for Morton

When we drafted who we did,those to the left were available,OUCH!

I'd take all those right now

While you are at - tattslotto numbers for tomorrow night please

Nutbean naively suggested that the recruiters are prepared to share info with journalists without being specific, yeah right I’m sure they do.

I'm glad you agree - but please leave out naively and replace the word suggested with stated - two articles quoted in this thread do in fact show exactly what I stated - that recruiters do talk to journalists and give informatation with varying degrees of specificity. ( never like to say the word fact but how can you dispute this when the two articles here clearly quote recruiters sharing information with a journalist???). Just google afl draft and recruiters and see the dozens of articles where recruiters are talking to the press. Matt Rendell (Adelaide) spoke on the radio for 14 minutes on different players and what might be available at Adelaides pick 13. One of the recruiters with later picks said that all the early picks in the 2009 draft would be midfielders. There are articles stating that clubs think that Darling will slip down the order and also John Butcher from the previous draft. methinks it is not me who is being naive.

My concern is not as to whether they are recruiting correctly as there is ample evidence provided that we are paying the right currency for our draft picks ( with a couple of exceptions ). My main concern lies in whether we are developing them properly. We have not had a genuine superstar since Robbie Flower. Why is that ?

There are plenty of "you tube highlights" available for the journos to get their "big wraps" from, I certainly don't think a Recruiter is going to let these parasites know who they are going to pick and in what order.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/mark-stevenss-draft-predictions/story-e6frf9jf-1225794866053

As you can see from this article written by Mark Stevens he has talked to every recruiter and whilst you are definitely right in that none would divulge their strategies on the upcoming draft you would expect that innocuous questions would be posed to the recruiters so the journo can put the jigsaw together. For example for the 2010 draft we know that Geelong/WB/Port would not say who they wanted to pick but they would be quite forthcoming on who they thought the order of the top 6 picks would be considering they didnt have a pick inside the top 12. Do you think that the Geelong recruiter would have had a problem nominating the Scully/Trengove/Martin as 123 considering their first pick was at 17 ! Ask enough questions of all the recruiters and you can form a good pattern as to who should fall where.

This is not just about Morton, who by the way i happen to like, it's about the rest of the selections we've had over the last 4 years. And btw which clubs are Quayle and Ralph recruiters for? My question on Morton was, what position did the recruiters recruit him for?

You seem to think that because the media considered Morton to be a top 4 position that justifies all the other unsubstantiated crap you've produced. Mat Burgan has Maric at between 10 and 25 with 4 other clubs interested, 3 of whom passed him over, very scientific.

I've tried to get it through your head that I don't care what Burgan, Quayle or Ralph think they just get unsubstantiated rumours like you and take them as Gospel, do you really think the recruiters are going to tell them who they are going to take? I know you probably don't understand this but they usually keep these things close to their chest and the last thing they want to do is share it with the media, hence the media, like you speculate and usually get it wrong. Have a look at the phantom drafts. So back to my question to you; who were the recruiters that had big wraps on some of the players we selected?

There is of course some sort of order that even I can understand, and there are some players that stand out, but it's up to the recruiters from each club to cut through the crap and work out who will best fit the club and has the mental and physical toughness to make it. We have recruited some of the softest players in the competition and that falls back on the recruiters and whether you agree or not is of little or no interest to me because I've already figured out you haven't got a clue.

Firstly - recruiters only come out in the press AFTER the draft and divulge what and who - and usually pretty sugar coated -" happy we got so and so with pick so and so - a bargain " - but again i agree with Titan.

Do you believe that the journos go to all these under 18 games ? ( any of them ? probably only the championships if that). Where do you think these journo's are getting their ideas on where the draft picks will fall. Whilst the recruiters wouldnt give definites to the journo's as to who they will pick they are certainly giving background information to them on who is who in the zoo. Journos never had an original thought in their lives - so when you are seeing who "ralphy" thinks will go top 20 where do you think he is getting the information to form his opinion ? From the copious under 18 games he has been to ? no siree - they are jsut plagiarising what they are getting from the clubs, recruiters( and probably big footy lol)

Yes we are on the right track, absolutely.

A few Observations...a lthough nothing new I thought I'd list my thoughts.

1.9. Davey needs to work a hell of a lot harder. Look at Daisy Thomas, similar size, similar role, similar skill set, very different output.

I agree with you on Davey working harder - but if you want to be surprised look up Thomas's statistics - not a similar size at all

its the trumpet mans fault

OK? So there was a general perception in AFL circles that Cale Morton was a top 5 pick. Satisfied yet?

I agree with Titan and there is a hell of a lot of hindsight that constantly goes on every time we talk draft.

I think that there is a fair degree of certainty almost to pick 20 - 25. Yes, certain players have been known to slip for various reasons Rich ? Darling ? and other players make go one or two picks off what the general concensus is. But generally the likes of Morton was always a top five. I think what is sometimes falled to be grasped is recruiters are being asked to crystal ball a 17/18 year old playing against his own, and come up with a clear picture of what he will be like at 22. Does Morton do that much less iron work than Frawley. Who was to know that skinny Frawley would end up the hulk and Morton would be unable to put on the pounds. Certainly Mitch is not skinny so it is not genetics.

I think the mark of the recruiters is how well they do with the speculative late picks/rookie picks and we havent done too badly there.

I also think about WYL argument - I'm not advocating a coaching change - but I do pose this question - do certain clubs/coaches develop up youth better than other clubs ? I pose this further question - why havent we had a genuine superstar since Robbie Flower. ( The ox may have got there if not for the knees). Why do certain players flounder at one club and then flourish when they move ? (Leigh Brown - just ok at North/Freo and now at the pies?)

You wasted 30 valuable seconds of his time that he could have spent running or handballing or saying no to pies and chips.

Nutbean, I am blaming you personally if he doesn't get a BOG this week.

I take full responsiblity.

what does it become when you relay a twit in a forum ?

I resemble that remark !!!! ( its a tweet not a twit ).

I just thought it interesting that we constantly hear the boys say what they have learned.

When you keep doing the same thing contrary to what instructions you are given you have obviously not learned anything.

I thought i would "constructively" vent to Cale Morton when he declared that he has learned.

Ugh. Twitter...

ummm...As opposed to football supporter forums ?

Same addiction - different drug.

(I'm tragic)

It has been mentioned a few times here that it iritates us to hear that the players have "learned" after a loss.

Cale Morton tweeted yesterday " Have learnt a fair bit individually so far this week from the loss to WC. Hopefully its a turning point for us moving forward".

I took the opportunity and tweeted back to him - "you havent learned anything. You have only heard. How you play going forward will dictate whether you have learned or not"

To my surprise I got a reply !

"thats a good point . I may claim that off you haha."

Lets hope what he has heard this week translates into a learning that we can all see.

Herald suns article today states this plus Scully, out top 4 for tackles last year jordie, mcdonald, moloney and scully, only one has played this season.... effectively costing us 15+ tackles a game, when players like jones and sylvia dont tackle.....

I must be a mind reader - didnt read that article.

So with our top 3 tacklers out - it means that coaching department would point out "our top 3 tacklers are out - others have got to step up" - it shouldnt cost us 15 tackles a game - it should mean that others pick up the slack ( maybe not to the same extent - but we should have not gone from first to last) thats what happens at good teams - Rocca retires - Dawes steps up.

Ro Bail - hard as nails

Steven Icke - 5'11" centre half back with 7'4" arms

AFTC

Appetite for the contest

The trouble with the critique is it is an exercise in futility.

Tell it like it is or dont tell it all - which means dont tell it all as I cant imagine any club being honest publicly

on player by player performance. (Honest to the extent of what is said behind closed doors - or what I hope is said behind closed doors)

The major contributors to us being no 1 in tackles this time last year are none other than McKenzie and Junior.

No coincidence that when you take our top two tacklers out of the team that stat MAY fall away.

I say MAY because as a coach you impress this KPI on the team at the start of the season and say "last season we were number one in tackles and we want to be the same season. (then state the obvious) Our best two tacklers arent playing so who is going to step up ?"

Good teams have players to fill the breach. Good teams have players who step up - we aren't good.

There is also the school of thought in all clubs that some players come back from lay offs ready and raring to go and some need time to work back to acceptable form

Can anyone recall a "cleaner" first five games ?

you are perfectly to happy to contribute every 2nd post to the thread with an "OMG LOL AND THEN THERE WAS AN ALIEN AND IT WAS TOM SCULLY' utterly dismissive type comment, while you humbly admit you have "zero" clue what you are talking about

that's exactly what I mean, I didn't say "every game" I said "any game" you have substituted your own words for mine and changed the meaning dramatically. This makes a mockery of the discussion.

It is a point to be considered, that he seems absent from the club. Having seen some stuff today of him doing stuff with the other players in his red and blue suit that point is thankfully killed to a large extent.

The rest of the 'evidence' in combination to me still paints a grim picture and I have every reason to be concerned. I know we have all been over it plenty of times but this thread is about ANOTHER MYSTERIOUS DELAY for him returning to the field. It feels to me like there is something else going on there. Weren't we expecting a round 18 or thereabouts announcement of his intentions? Well they are edging closer to that aren't they

we now know for a fact that he could sign now and have clauses included to incorporate changes to the CBA... that takes away the best reason for him to wait, so why is he waiting?

Please understand clearly that I will in no way mock or disrespect anyone who has the opinion that Scully is leaving. As many people have stated, " Scully will not be able to resist the temptation of a very large sum of money" - whilst I dont necessarily agree with this ,no where have I ( or will I) deride this opinion as it is a reasonable statement.

However, I stand by my right to question and giggle ( and yes, ridicule) when the opinions are backed by wild conjecture that dont stand the test of reason and logic or taking preceived incidents or behaviours and use them as testiment to the "fact" that he is leaving.

You have highlighted another "conspiracy theory" that highlights the point I am making - you are one of the few talking about a mysterious injury whilst the club has actually been specific in detailing the injury - it is unusual yes, but mysterious - why mysterious ? The club has said from day one that they are taking a cautious approach with the injury and would a more logical explanation be that it is taking longer to heal than thought ? Juniors 3 week hammy last year was almost a 2 month injury. Nothing mysterious - it just didnt heal as quickly as hoped or they wanted to be ultra-cautious as to his recovery.

And again you bring up why isnt he signing now - his management made it clear in August last year that he is not signing until season end. There are umpteen other players not signed up now and some will not be signed until seasons end. Jack Watts did not sign last year until seasons end. So because your GWS ulcer is giving you havoc, unless he signs now then that is an indication that he is probably leaving ? Sylvia is unsigned - why are you not panicked about him ?

To highlight him not being in the stands ? That says to me.... ummm..... nothing ?

I will respect all reasonable opinions that are contrary to mine but you must respect my right to practice satire in its finest form when the examples given to support the opinion cannot stand the test of reason.

lol

So you post views, and then walk it back in the same post?

Why bother posting it?

President Kennedy was killed by the CIA and anti-Castro Cubans in an attempt to derail the liberal agenda of the Democratic government of the US. Or he was possibly killed by some Commie nut.

Who really knows?

I have analysed Scully's kicking style and can confirm the reason he misses so many targets is because of the ball drop - he drops the ball back and to the left.....back and to the left.....back and to the left......

LMW 281F to be precise

doh !!! ( missed it by one year lol)

definitive proof scully is leaving.

definite proof Scully is taking an ice bath to fix his dodgy knee ( I must say that he has looked better)

what will be funny is how utterly ridiculous you and 80% of others in this thread will look if he goes

if you think the chances of him leaving belong in the conspiracy theory basket you are just a stupid person, heavily in denial, simple as that

You see, I will only speak for myself and repeat again - I have ZERO idea if he is leaving or staying so I will not look in the slightest bit silly if he stays or goes. (I repeat Zero, zero ,zero)

He well may leave but what I will not do is jump at shadows and read things into tea leaves as many on the site are doing. I have heard the countless arguments as to why he will stay and they make sense. I have heard the one argument for him going ( Mt Cashmore) and that makes sense.

But in the absense of any facts apart from the fact that Scully has come out and emphatically denied that he has signed or talked with GWS I will not jump at shadows, I will not demand that he come out in the media and tap dance daily and I will not read anything into his mystery knee or that he is not in the stands eating a pie and reading a footy record at every one of our games. His management and the club have outlined the timeline for us knowing and when it is announced I will then know as much as you know.

The only thing I am 100% certain of is that he will most definitely sign a contract somewhere before the bounce of the ball next season.

edit - give me some lovin for the crop circles - thats was damn funny

double edit - C&B - apology accepted in advance for misrepresenting where I stand on this issue.

If you look at the uncropped version of that Scully photograph, you will see that Trengove is barefooted.

29if ?

I know why Scully has not been at the games - he has been otherwise engaged

( come on....its a little bit funny)