Grapeviney

I went last night and can't recall a game where there have been so few Melbourne supporters at the ground. It was a crowd of 17,000 and I reckon at least 15k of them were North fans. Thankfully, the cheersquad was in full voice and flying the red and blue flag. They were sensational, chanting and cheering at the top of their lungs virtually the whole game, not just when we scored. In contrast, North supporters had to be told when to make noise by the scoreboard, which literally carried the message "Make Some Noise" after Kangaroo goals (to the accompaniment of some ridiculous rolling crescendo music). What a lame and artificial gimmick to create atmosphere. Have we really reached that point in the game where we need to be told when to fire up? Anyway, the point of this thread was to acknowledge the awesome work of the Demon Army, faithful to the cause to the very end !

More classic BT: "He went into scientry first." I tell you what - not even scientry can explain that kind of nonsense.

Makes me long for the freewheeling days of '94. Lyon (79), Schwarz (60) and Jakovich (51) - that's 190 goals. Throw in another 78 from Lovell (29), Pike (25) and Charles (24) for good measure. Boy oh boy wowee!

I don't accept the notion that good chemistry on TV necessarily translates into a successful partnership in the coaching box.

The accompanying pics of Hawkey in his budgie smugglers were gold. Thirty years later and our PM is still in the same attire. Keating can't really talk though - when he was PM he used to skip Parliament and stay home at the Lodge listening to classical music in his pyjamas.

Wonder whether Saty will go. Saw him at the game last weekend and he looked pretty grim..

Elite probably is a stretch (that's why i qualified it with 'near').. I'd settle for improved significantly though

Which book are you talking about here? The Latham Diaries? It's been 10 years or whatever since I read it but I recall it as a bitter and spiteful book which blamed everyone and everything else for his failure. I haven't read any of his subsequent books, maybe that's what you're referring to? There's a new one out now I think.

No amount of touches will stop you from finding stats that seemingly prove how good other draftees are in comparison to our own kids.

The disappearance of the torp has been a real loss for the game. It was a thing of beauty, and could change a game at the right time. Gaddy Lyon was a great exponent; will never forget the one he dobbed from inside the centre square at Waverley against Carlton in the '88 Preliminary Final. Massive. On kicking more generally, Todd Viney is the best proof that someone can improve their kicking - he was pretty ordinary for most of his career but became near elite in the latter stages.

Pretty much. Good government requires both good policy and good politics, and this is the combination that eludes most. Latham had some good ideas but lacked the temperament to be a disciplined and stable leader. By his own admission, he wasn't mature enough when he got the job.

By the by, for those interested in politics and power, get a copy of Paul Kelly's new book, Triumph and Demise: The Broken Promise of a Labor Generation. Definitely the best account of the rapid rise and epic fall of the Rudd / Gaillard Governments.

Nope. Does it bother you that some people need to see more than 'good intentions' to be persuaded to pay for things which they believe in but don't benefit from materially?

I just dislike the implication - mainly from the left - that people who vote conservative are only interested in 'short term material gain'. I don't deny it's a big factor when people go to the polls, on all sides of politics. But look at asylum seekers and border protection; these were huge issues at the last election and they're virtually completely removed from 'hip pocket politics'. Hawke, Keating and Howard all succeeded in introducing crucial economic reforms - deregulating the economy, floating the dollar, cutting tariffs, implementing GST - which involved a measure of short-term hip pocket pain in the interests of longer term national interest. The nation as a whole was prepared to accept this hardship because it was convinced of the case for change, something which Hockey and Abbott have so far failed to do with their own Budget. I'm not sure why you would think I was being disingenuous. You're the one who said those listeners are not his demographic, even though you now say they are.

Hmmm not so funny, and they missed the most obvious one- you've got the little red and blue sticker on your car. The Coodabeens used to joke that they were removable.

Agree on all counts Jaded. As for Clisby, hasn't he had an injury interrupted season? If so, he might get another crack. I thought he missed some of the pre-season and also some games during the year.. maybe I'm making that up?

What makes you think that you're not an average punter? Somebody comprises that group, and if it's not you or me, or others on this board, then who? And what are you doing that makes your behaviour so much more virtuous than somebody who votes according to their hip pocket? The implication of your post is that you are acting in some sort of national / international interest while others cannot look beyond their own self interest. He's Minister for Education - they are exactly his demographic.

As I wrote in the post-match thread, I booed at 3/4 time and I only stayed to the end so I could boo them again. It's just another form of expression; as Gonzo says, we all yell or sigh or shake our heads at various stages of the game. Individually, shouts and remarks can't be heard, so booing is pretty much the only way we can collectively communicate our displeasure. I like the anonymity of it - I would never lean over the fence and do it as the players are walking off, I think that personalises it. edit: I've been going to the footy for more than 30 years and I can only ever recall it happening twice - last week, and in round 1 against Port Adelaide last year IIRC.

Don't worry, I spent more than enough time on the reality bus before I abandoned Neeld, but that's beside the point. The general perception with Neeld was that he was implementing the Collingwood '10 'kick it long down the line' plan - it certainly seemed that way. Maybe he, too, had other offensive strings he was trying to add to the bow, that we never got to see. Clark was certainly one part of that. Of course the Roos plan is also rooted in defence. But don't the stats say that we're getting a lot more i-50's this year as opposed to 2012 and 2013 ? Even on Sunday, we had so much of the ball in the first half, plenty of action in and around 50m, just couldn't buy a goal to save ourselves. I reckon the addition of Hogan will make a really big difference. No, I'm not expecting a bag of goals in his debut season. As much as I hate the word, I think he'll help with our 'structures', straighten us up, and perhaps enable some of the other cogs in the forward line to contribute more, Dawes being the obvious one.

I think you're mixing up what you're seeing with the gameplan - they're two different things. I suspect the real gameplan bears little resemblance to the turgid rubbish we've seen in recent weeks.

I'll confess - I only stayed to the end so I could boo them off the ground.

BT, getting a bit Freudian: "We had the tape going just in case you made a fraudulent slip."

Hats off to you Saty - we're at the ar*e-end of another crap season and you're still going to training and providing reports in mid-August, when most of the rest of us have switched off. That's nothing if not dedication.

.. except they've never actually won a match there.

It will be bad for membership if we finish last again. Die-hard Demons like us appreciate the improvements that have come this year, but for most of the punters who have yet to sign up and don't follow the footy media religiously, they're far more likely to view 2014 as just another sh*t season indistinguishable from the previous 7, than as a stepping stone to recovery. If we pick up the spoon this year, we can kiss goodbye to 40k membership.