Slartibartfast

Thanks. I've always thought Atley was fast but it puts the Trengove 20m in perspective. He shouldn't have any trouble with pace but I've never thought him quick watching him. I really hope he explodes this year, he's been dealt a terrible hand in the last 12 months with a premature captaincy and then all the issues the club had to face after that decision. He's clearly a really good quality person.

OK, let me put it another way. The definition of tanking has been discussed, debated, dissected and regurgitated so often that having another discussion about it here is just plain boring. My premise is that there is a significant chance that we wanted to finish third last in 2012. Called it "Advanced List Management" if you like. Happy? If not don't read my posts. Simple.

Is that fast for a mid? I don't know and I'm not sure where to get the information. From memory BH talked about 2.98 but I stand to be corrected. Jack was never fast but he has an ability to find the ball and use it. Basically he's an inside mid who can mark. Even in his first few years his major contribution was the big mark. IMO Neeld played him out of position last year when he spent the majority of the time as a high half forward. He is just not quick enough to play that position when the ball gets into space and we saw that time and time again. And he wasn't injured last year. I hold hopes but I have a high degree of concern and have since his first year.

Well we've had a bit of practice. Most dismiss it out of hand but I'm quite serious. Having decided in March 2012 to exercise our two comp picks and knowing we had serious deficiencies in our list as well as knowing we were committed to Jack Viney it strikes me as very fortuitous that we won, with a better FD and a better list, half the number of games we did the previous year. TBH I certainly don't think we intended to lose at the beginning of the year but we had a very hard draw in the first half of the season and once it panned out the way it did, well........ And what a lovely way to stick it up the AFL. Want to investigate us for tanking do you? Well watch this........ I won't get into a debate on what tanking is because that is a personal interpretation but I believed we tanked in 2009 and I believed many other clubs did it before us.

Redleg I agree that tanking is the players not trying. Do you think any penalty should apply to a team who manages their list, trains their players and selects teams with the intention of reducing the chance of winning and thereby gaining a benefit at draft time. Hypothetically of course.........

I think it's a very harsh judgement. He was a no name director on the Szondy Board and put in a lot of time and effort (albeit Szondy's Board was the worst in my memory). He then picked up the pieces when Szondy did a runner and worked extraordinarily hard. I'm sure there were a number of things that influenced his decision to take the position but I think to claim it was for "his own self aggrandisement" is quite insulting really.

It depends on why you're playing/not playing them. That's the issue.

Same argument for Dean Terlich. I was impressed with him the couple of times I've seen him.

I think we might have tanked last year. I raised it with some other supporters and I was serious. If we did all power to the Club, we benefited from it and got some terrific young kids in. Maximizing the value of our Scully comp picks made a lot of sense. No point tanking this year until we know if we've got any picks.

What makes you think you can attribute "motivation" to Paul Gardner? Have you discussed this with him or even met him?

I've just pressed on the little star by the topic title which takes you to the last post you read. It took me to P47. Could someone quickly summarize what's been said?

I don't agree unless I've missed some things along the way. It tells me that 8 members of the 2009 Board have been interviewed and have denied any knowledge of an intention to lose. I find that very interesting. It also confirms that one of the journalists who is covering this story and getting leaks has no smoking gun and his continued focus on the last three minutes of the Richmond game puts the investigation into keystone cops territory. It's a good article from our point of view.

OK, I get your point. I tend to hold onto things once I've decided but I think Watts will be a very good player for us in the future. I don't really care what position that is.

Well you maybe right and he may have found it easier in the backline with a simpler job. As the OP says, there is plenty of competition for spots so he'll have to play well to keep his.

You also judge and you've judged him against a 600 goal power forward. I sense a strong disappointment. Who are you disappointed with or aren't you disappointed?

Do you blame Watts?

Much will depend on the game plan. Last year we asked kids to play man on man footy and kick it around the boundary. It was so easy to defend against as we only used one third of the ground and the bigger opposition just picked us off. Not only that but I think last year we saw the competition as a whole move away from the 2011 Collingwood game plan model and use the corridor significantly more. Players like Nicholson and Macdonald are terrific competitors but turn the ball over in uncontested situations far too often. Dunn is a poor decision maker. If you're going to play those sort of players it's necessary to play boundary line footy because you can't afford midfield turnovers. But if we want to use all the ground we need good decision makers and good kicks coming out of defence. Watts will excel at this and players like Strauss and Terlich would be well ahead of Nicholson and Macdonald. I think it's time we developed the offensive side of our game and gave the younger kids who don't have fully developed AFL body strength the chance to use their strengths as well as learn the defensive side of the game. I'd favour Strauss and Terlich given that their form is good but I recognize the considerable strengths of players like Nicholson. It will be interesting to see how it develops over the season. I'm also a believer that Watts should play an outside midfield/quarterback role, perhaps similar to Goddard. Give him the ball in the midfield 20 times a game and our forwards will have a much easier time of it.

For those that have been regulars at training, are we starting to use the whole ground in end to end drills or are we still looking to hugging the boundary?

Their job isn't to have a strikingly good football knowledge, their job is to ensure good governance. It's what many don't understand. Good footy knowledge coupled with a misunderstanding of what the role of the Board is can be a fatal mix.

Yes, good points DJD. I'd imagine there have been significant "informal" discussions between the Commission and the senior AFL execs. What puts the AFL in the best light: 1. Demetriou says "NCTA", 2. Referred to the Commission who says "NCTA or 3. Commission imposes penalty. I don't know, I'd think 2 but I can see 1 has it's advantages.

Spirit it's a hypothetical and not related to any particular situation.

My understanding was that Demetriou would decided, once he'd received Melbourne's response, whether MFC had a case to answer. If he decided we don't then there is no referral to the Commission. Is that not right?

It was. The walk started on Friday at 8.00am from Wheelers Hill and finished on top of Donna Buang, it was 100km. People walked in teams of 4 and there were a number of checkpoints along the way. The team couldn't continue if more than one person dropped out. I saw Paul that day and said "I'll see you at the footy tomorrow". I made it because my team finished by about 9.00am Saturday but Paul's didn't finish until 8.00pm that night. I doubt Paul's absence influenced the result but he received plenty of praise from the community and plenty of angst from the supporters and I reckon our sponsors loved it.

Let me present to situations: 1. At the time did anyone think Carlton tanked in 2007 and did you think it was appropriate? Did you call them Carltank? 2. What would you think if a team announced that at the beginning of the season it had no hope of winning the Premiership and accordingly it was going to make it the objective of the Club to finish bottom to obtain the stand out player in the draft? Would your view change if they had that objective but keep it in house, not even telling the players but selecting teams and playing players in such a manner as to significantly increase their non competitiveness and ensuring the outcome they'd identified.

My understanding was that Caro had the story but checked with MFC and found it to be baseless.