Slartibartfast

There is a way.

Maybe, but that wasn't the question.

Then enjoy the comp under new AFL leadership and no MFC. That doesn't work for me.

So, if after all the negotiations the AFL say "a couple of scalps and we'll call it quits or it's draft penalties and fines and off to court" what would you do? Taking city hall to court is a lose lose situation for all of us. The difference is city hall will survive, we may not.

I said it was defining because he basically defined "tanking". I've never doubted for a minute that this was the case.

A defining comment

This is where governance is not understood. Clearly a CEO needs to know what's going on but he shouldn't meddle in footy department decisions like recruiting selections, team selections, player evaluation or training schedules. He should of course know if players have been asked to sign medical waivers and find out why.

I reckon I want it to be the AFL themselves as that will allow them the outcome that is best for all. FM I'm sick of this!

Who's the judge (and jury)?

I agree RR that Davey is not in our starting 22. He looks great at three quarter pace in our training drills where he knows he won't get too much body contact but when the real stuff starts I doubt he can replicate. I think if he has a role it maybe as a sub where the heat has gone out of the game.

I completely agree with this but the reality is that we've debated the issue for so long we all have our positions and they are not going to change. Let's hope we just get off and move on.

Interesting, I just assumed they wouldn't want the ball contacting the foot they injured. Clark was kicking with his left and Trengove with his right.

Nut I've never been a fan of the emotive and editorial content when it's aimed at MFC. I don't like it. Yes she went overboard and she clearly thinks that "list management" for the purposes of gaining picks is inappropriate. I also think the game is better without it. Whilst I don't like her venom I do like the fact that as a "political" football journo she publishes a lot of stuff that is on the ball and does so either uniquely or first. And while she continues to do that I'll continue to read her because I like the information she provides. So yes, I'm still a fan. And I'll bet that if she starts publishing political stuff to the detriment of Collingwood everyone (well you know what I mean) here will read it and inwardly at least will applaud.

Got to training at about 9.30 while the boys were doing a slow lap. Spencer, Jamar and Fitzy were doing a marking drill alone on the side and Stark, Clisby and Barry were doing some special lighter training in a separate group at the beginning but all joined the main group after the simulated match practice moving the ball from one end to the other. Terlich was running a few slow laps early and then disappeared. Gawn, Bail, Trengove, Clark and Tapscott were in rehab group and didn't join main training. Tappy just ran a few slow laps and I didn't see him after that. Trengove and Clark ran part laps at about half pace, not a jog but a reasonable pace. They then did some handball drills and some short gentle kicking over about 20m with their non injured foot. No sign of any discomfort from either. Gawn ran lots of 40 metre lengths carefully timed and did some other exercises with Bail. Gawn looked stuffed at the end of it all but there was no sign of a limp or any discomfort other than the effort required. The main group only trained for an hour and a half and finished just before 11. It didn't seem to be an exhausting session from where I sat but I think it's easy to overlook the effort put in. There really isn't much to add to what's been already said in the training reports but I can say that Toumpas looked great as did Viney. In one drill they were broken into three groups with one group at each end and one in the middle. It started with the ball being given to the group at one end and the group in the middle had to rush down to them and stop them having about 10 consecutive handballs. If they failed they had to sprint to the group at the other end for the same drill. If they stopped 10 consecutive handballs they then stayed down the end and the other group sprinted from one end to the other. I was interested in the players who were first to reach the other end and pleasingly Blease and surprisingly Fitsy were at the head of the queue on a number of occasions. I know much has been said about Blease and his repeat 300m runs but in match simulation today he didn't looked stressed at all. He looks like he's now taking it all very seriously and if he stays injury free this year will be a bit of a stand out in the Lewis Jetta style I'd think. He appears so much faster than those around him when he has the ball. The normal players looked good and not surprisingly the experienced heads got a lot of the ball - Grimes, Jones, Frawley, McKenzie. Happy to answer questions.

If we didn't tank why did you call this the "Tanking" thread. BTW I thought we were arguing that there was not rule against tanking? It's all getting very confusing.

I feel for you Maurie. Trying to present a view along these lines had one poster accuse me of being "the leak". The "agenda" word was used. Robbie wanted me out of the Club and most others got their nickers in a knot. FWIW I think you are spot on but it's so far outside the groupthink of this forum a contrary view can't be tolerated. Hell, when this discussion started in August we tanked but we implemented it badly. Carlton were known as Carltank. Now tanking doesn't exist. Any reporter who mentions that we are under investigation for tanking without putting in a full defence of our position is a hack and there isn't and never was a case to answer. Forget that Dean Bailey said he had no hesitation in placing the club in the best position possible to get draft picks and a former player said we weren't serious about winning. If you take my advice just leave it, contrary views and sensible thinking is not welcome here.

Actually the club owns that game from the Board down in a way that not every game is "owned" from the Board down.

So what is your point re benchmarking? Of course the Bailey era owns that game as every team that plays owns every game it plays.

There must be a misunderstanding. You said the following. By benchmarking our performance this year against the loss to Geelong of 186 under Bailey I think you are comparing the two. I've no desire or interest in debating Bailey's history v Neeld with you or anyone really because it's been done a thousand times and we're all pretty set in our opinions. I was trying to make the point that comparing (benchmarking) our performance this year against the game at Geelong set a pretty low level and one that is not appropriate.

Baghdad Bob = Fan Still talking to me? BTW it's in my signature.

Yep, fair comment. I was never a fan of Magner or Couch and couldn't understand why we kept them on this year. They both have terrific attitudes but don't seem up to AFL standard to me and if they play we are in trouble I think. I've seen both Terlich and Jones at training a couple of times this year and both have impressed, much more so than either Magner or Couch. Terlich I particularly like and Jones M has a very big body for a mid but of course the stuff I'm seeing now is Micky Mouse stuff. We'll obviously know more in a few weeks. But ya gotta have hope!

If you think they are illiterate ADHD sufferers what does it make you when you keep reading them. Beggars belief really.

You have trouble with a lot of things I find. Ron said he's "benchmark" this year against the loss to Geelong of 186 points. Ron was comparing the two and I was saying it was an inappropriate comparison. (i've bolded the key words to try and help you) Both years were terrible, 2012 was worse than 2011, or at least that's what the scoreboard said. Frankly I liked winning games, all 16 under Bailey in his last two years where he was trying to win and not "managing our list". Feeling good 8 times a year felt better than feeling good 4 times a year. Not that either really felt good.

Be prepared for a long list of players who have come out of WAFL, SANFL and VFL and played good footy in their first year. I'm not saying Terlich and Jones will do it but if they do they will join quite a large group.