Slartibartfast

Glad to be of service.

You can continue to bicker about the fact the heart surgeon didn't fix your ingrown toe nail when he performed the triple bypass operation that saved your life. I'm glad we've got men running the show now instead of the boys you supported to the end claiming they were being undermined. Hopefully you can now see the difference or do you still pine for the old crew?

I see you still blame others for our predicament. It's the AFL, it's the other clubs, it's the draw etc etc etc. It's comforting to know it wasn't our fault which of course begs the question as to why we got rid if Neeld, Schwab, McLardy and Connolly. They should be suing for wrongful dismissal. And while you snipe at Demetriou just be thankful the AFL wasn't run like the MFC because if it was we wouldn't be here.

You may think that but you're quite wrong. It was the view of the AFL that we shouldn't get a PP. Vlad has overseen such a powerful and successful competition that the AFL have had a chance to support basket case clubs who in normal circumstances would now be in the hands of the receivers. You can snipe at the little issues all you like but the reality is he's been exceptionally successful in growing the brand and he's saved our club.

Not possible, Ben doesn't rate him.

I do too Nasher but I thought the segment on OTC was less than impressive. The relationship between Roos and the Swans should be good, both parties were very good for each other. The fact it has soured benefits nobody. Something has obviously gone on that has upset the Swans and IMO the best thing to do would have been to resolve it away from the media. Roos should have rung Colless and if possible sorted it out. Sending an email demanding an apology doesn't strike me as the way friends who respect each other would go about this if there had been a genuine misunderstanding. Once you get past the macho beating of hairy chests only harm has been done. The spin off of the "tiff" is that Dew seems to be out of the equation for Roos assistant and the chances of sensible trading with the Swans is more difficult. I can't see how we win anything. Roos has handled this poorly by escalating this situation by using his privileged position as an OTC panellist. I know I'll get howled down for this view and I fully support Roos but it won't stop me critically evaluating things he does. This was a mistake IMO where we have gained nothing and perhaps lost something.

Oh dear, three more years of Ben telling us nothing hard ever came out of Brighton Grammar........ There will be sadness in the Hur family tonight. I'm thrilled BTW!

If the Eagles have promoted him to the senior list he has clearly earned it. He was developing ok under Bailey but failed under Neeld's regime. He's not the only one. Has all the skills. Has application. He could easily make it when he matures. Steven Motlop at Geelong was taken in the same year three picks later and had the advantage of a wonderful culture, surrounded by exceptional players, 4 years developing in the VFL and very good coaches. He's really only made it this year. With the same benefits who knows where Bennell might be now and I suspect if Motlop has been at MFC he'd be nowhere and accused of the same things as Bennell is now. I think he will be a fine player but he needs to be 24 years old to succeed in AFL footy not 18. Neeld made so many mistakes. Petterd, Rivers and Moloney stand out but Bennell could be another.

I know the AFL was instrumental in us getting Jackson and that Jackson was instrumental in us getting Roos. But of course you are free to believe that or not. WJ's last sentence astounds me and it's what I hate most about being a MFC supporter. That comment depicts us as the downtrodden, only in the position we are in because of others and the inequities we face. It's rot. There are others in our position like Footscray, PA, NM and Saints who are in a similarly "disadvantaged" position. I reckon until we stop looking for and making excuses and start being independent and thinking independently we're stuffed. Schwab, Connolly and McLardy went to the welfare bin and it failed miserably. Jackson and Roos won't. It's time the supporters stopped doing it.

I also think the AFL may believe we are not as bad as we appear. Bailey coached us to a 37% winning rate in his last 38 odd games and we now arguably have a much better list with Clark, Dawes, Hogan, Viney and Toumpas on the list. Roos himself has said that we just need a midfield to be competitive. It might be the AFL will defer a decision for a year and see what a competent administration and FD can provide. Remember they don't want us to succeed, just not fail. Webber I don't think anyone faults the logic of your position, I think what some think is that it ignores some realities and politics of our situation. PP or not, I'm now quite optimistic about our future.

Thanks. Done

I think that moaning about journalism and their level of understanding of the situation misses the point. What they are doing is showing us how the rest of the footy world is thinking. They have not spent the hours, days and weeks thinking about our issues and how it fits together and they are not doing it from a obsessive MFC perspective. Their reaction, whether you agree or not, is how we are viewed and how the footy world see our entitlement. I fail to understand why people took so strongly the comments of CW during the tanking enquiry and Barrett now because mostly what they say is either opinion, which they are entitled to, or mostly right. We were a complete rabble, we lost the respect of everyone, we had a CEO who lost the respect of journo's, we behaved badly and we've been nothing but a drain on the competition for 7 years. If it had been Footscray or North or PA who had done what we'd done over the journey I'd be saying "they don't deserve to be in the competition" and I'd be questioning how much help they should get. Thankfully we have a benevolent dictator in Vlad who is doing what he can to help us. He's given us millions,he's given us Jackson who got us Roos who in turn will give us plenty. Thank heavens for Vlad I say, without him I think there is a fair chance we'd be gone. I understand Webbers logic and I understand Paul_man's attitude. Most of all I want to stop thinking like a victim and start acting like someone who can make something of their situation and gain some self respect. It's why I struggle so much with the "but others did it, it's not fair" attitude and the passionate demands for additional welfare (PP's). That attitude will keep us on the bottom forever because it's an excuse, it won't be what Jackson and Roos are thinking. Roos and Jackson will apply for a PP but if we don't get one it will be dismissed with a one liner and never mentioned again.

And I thought WJ was just joking, Connolly style, about the faceless men!

Webber I'd like you to accompany PJ and PR when they present to the AFL. You're presentation of our position is persuasive and logical. I hope it prevails because IMO it's nonsensical to agrue we don't want one - sorry Paul_man, i enjoy your posts. But the suggestion that we could go lower with the receipt of a PP doesn't rub with me. We are/were rock bottom this year. If we can get one just say "thank you so much" and move on quickly.

Those that wanted better than Schwab and Neeld did want the best for the club. Those that argued against those changes were just blind to the very obvious damage that was being done. I do want priority picks but if I was in the AFL's position I'd need persuading. There are some good arguments here and Jackson is good.

WJ has suggested that a past employee "ratted" on the club to the AFL. I'd be surprised if it was only one. The AFL would have got a good insight into what was going on. Just because it isn't public doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I always argued for a dignified exit and argued that we "could do better". I don't hold a grudge against them, I just saw that they were less than effective in their jobs and wanted better. I didn't convince many here.

Good interview. I had a chat with Brad Green at the end of last year. He dispelled any notion that Trengove has a groin injury. He also said that Neeld was playing him totally out of position. He said he was a natural ball winning inside mid but Neeld was playing him as a high half forward which was a position that he didn't have the pace for. I'm interested that Roos has already endorsed Trenners as a centre square mid. If he's successful in that position we could improve more quickly than we think.

Webber you present a very good argument for a PP. It's logical and I hope it prevails, but will this type of argument convince the AFL? Jackson is good! RPFC to a large degree I agree with what you've said about past servants of this club. But when those like Hazy and myself were raising the alarm bells years before our situation was dealt with we were attacked and you were in the first row of those denying our arguments and questioning our motives. It's very easy to be wise after the event which so many here are. Whispering Jack has a "like" against your post, but he continually reminds us that to ignore history is to repeat mistakes. And it's very hard to have a forgiving attitude to Schwab and McLardy after Connolly was awarded a contract extension after the investigation which has now to be paid out. Anyway it's a very good discussion with points well made and has provided food for thought. FWIW I agree with you if you define tanking as narrowly as you have, I think everyone does. But I just don't agree with your definition of tanking because I think it goes to motive, not just actions. But that's past history.

In post 11 I've argued that it's in most other clubs interest that we be given pick 1.

Don't disagree with this view. It's quite likely, we'll find out soon.

The AFL want to see us competitive. They don't care if we don't win many games but they don't want us with a percentage of 54. They may believe that with Roos and a competent administration we will achieve that. I think they may argue that having been given what we've been given we won't be a disservice to the competition and they've no interest in giving us a further leg up. I think that those that believe it is as simple as "number of games won" are not looking at the whole picture.

See above. I think we have ultimately been rewarded for bringing the game into disrepute.

Fair enough, I didn't know that.

I can understand that view. On one level it's right but in my view only if you look at our performance in isolation. Trouble is we aren't isolated from our past. I'll try and explain my position. I believe we tanked to get draft picks, that's the basis I come from. I believe the AFL know that, I believe the public believes it and I believe that the finding of "bringing the game into disrepute" was designed to save everyone a huge amount of grief. The finding of the AFL was pragmatic and from that POV correct. But given that we bought the game into disrepute in order to improve our draft position the most obvious penalty is the loss of draft picks. You cheat to get draft picks you should logically be penalized with draft picks. Now there are numerous reasons we retained our picks and high among them was that the club is on its knees and draft pick penalties would nearly put us out the back door and hurt all clubs. No Jackson, no Roos, no hope. Our penalty has been nothing from our cheating. Connolly gone, Schwab gone, McLardy gone. the fine offset by the $2.7 million grant and an AFL appointed CEO who has won us tattslotto with Roos. You could raise an argument that tanking was the best thing for us. Not for draft picks but to restructure the Club and save us from our own incompetence. IMO in the last 12 months we've had so many get out of jail free cards expecting another is improper. If we get PP's then we've been overpaid for our crime many time over. We've benefited on nearly every front. From a neutral persons position we've broken the rules, had our administration fixed, our coach replaced and a divisive figure in Connolly removed all funded by the AFL, given a lifeline to employ competent people and now we are asking for a PP. I think most of the footy world is sick of us not paying our own way and I reckon the AFL will probably think the same. The AFL are not interested in us being successful, they just don't want us to fail. So in isolation we should get a pick but I reckon given everything that's happened it's hypocritical of the AFL to give more. "You broke the rules, now have a PP".