The Chazz

This is the bit I'm questioning Rogue - it's good of the Club to support its players, but what have the players given in return? It's good for them to hear Bailey sticking up for them, so tomorrow night will determine if this means anything to the playing group or not. I'm not saying you said that it was designed to lift the players. But I'm wanting to know are you satisfied with the response from the playing group after they feel "supported"?

If us supporters are desperate to keep him, which I am, and so should 36,000 others, what's the issue? There is a possibility that we could lose a player who could be the best we've had in 20+ years. Isn't there a saying "desperate times call for desperate measures". I think it could be used in this scenario.

What did you hope they would achieve by appealing Trengove's suspension? You'd expect the players to lift? They did for 1 quarter against North, 0 against Carlton, which was 2 weeks after the North game. It will be interesting to see what sort of performance they put in tomorrow night after DB's words this week.

So you think by the crowd letting out a "skull" when he gets it will be enough? I actually do that already when he kicks it, because generally I know he's creating something. I still don't know why you are questioning this desperation. I have clearly explained my opinion about how we desperately need him to sign.

Didn't inspire the players to lift the following wek against North, or last Friday noght against Carlton, did it?

Sat up the big screen end. Considering the grandstand is in a horse-shoe shape, and behind the goals up the end I sat only has 15 rows or something then the big screen behind it, it was quite impressive. The atmosphere was terrific, which was probably helped by the Gold Coast playing so well in the first half, as well as approx 5,000 Geelong supporters flying up from Vic. I have been to a fair few games at the Gabba in recent times, and can honestly say that it has nothing on the Gold Coast stadium in terms of atmosphere. It's also great for families, especially up the end I sat, as there were many grassy areas directly behind the big screen where you could kick a footy, as well as auskick-type activities. Food was as expensive as normal, and the beer was cold. Casino was busy, but the black jack table was paying (oops, I don't encourage gambling in any way). All in all, it was a very enjoyable night for all the above reasons. Don't get me wrong, nothing compares to the MCG at a Demons home game. I can't wait til we play them there next season, looking forward to it more than playing at the Gabba.

As I am the person that contemplated it C&B, I will, for your benefit, explain my reasoning, so that you can question my methods further. The OP was talking about an idea that would show the football world that he is ours. The idea of shouting "Skull" as he kicked or when he was in possession; I just couldn't see how that would achieve the objective. However, I think it is quite important that we get behind him, and make him "feel the love" from MFC supporters. To be honest, I think his re-signing with the Dee's is bloody near critical. What would happen if he left? The ultimate professional, who has been at the club for 2 years, decides to leave. What sort of message will this send through the playing group? Ok, they may use it for motivation, but maybe they'll just start questioning certain aspects of the Club. Scull leaving would hurt us a lot more than any other out-of-contract players this year (pretty sure Sylvia is there). By the end of the year, we as a footy club would have had over 12 months notice to try and make sure we got our sh!t together so that he didn't want to leave. If we can't secure his signature, it will be a very dark hour. So, as I asked earlier, who is responsible for Scully to make the right decision (right being that he stays at Melbourne)? The Club is of course the most significant factor, and one that us members and supporters obviously have no control over. However, as supporters, how can we ensure we do as much as we can to make sure he is wanted by the Demon faithful? My idea of the banner to hold up in my opinion is one way this can happen, and as I said, for 1 game, our last home game in round 23. I acknowledged that it had a certain level of desperation to it, but that is because I strongly believe we should be desperate to keep him. He is the first player that we have had on our list for a bloody long time that has that potential to become the best in the game. I owuldn't even put Stynes in that category, I'm talking Robbie Flower. Now, when I grew up as a kid, Flower was my hero. I can assure you, if there was a chance that Flower was going to leave Melbourne, I would've made my own sign requesting that he didn't. Is this begging? I'm not so sure. If you don't agree with the idea, of course you are going to put your own spin on it, but to be honest, I couldn't give a toss what you would call it. Me, I call it creating awareness for Tom that he is not only sticking it up his teammates and Club if he leaves, he's sticking it up 36,000 members and we will never forget it. On the other hand, if he stays, welcome to the family.

I stuck up for Strauss the other night at Metricon Stadium. I was sitting right behind the point post, 3 rows from the fence. In the 3rd quarter, I let Campbell Brown know that I thought he was by far the worst player on the field. I know he would've heard me as a bloke a few rows behind me got his request for a Scarlett wave honoured while that player was about 25m out. It felt good, means jack $hit, glad he didn't recognise me after the game! B)

Ok then, so for us supporters to ensure we do everything we can to make him feel a part of the club, what are your suggestions? We can only assume the Club is doing their part, what is it that we need?

Aussie has taken personal leave and Fev isn't on our list - try again. Just kidding. Is that Howe wearing 48? Very similar style to Robbo, not sure if that's a + or -.

Is this from the Club's point of view or us supporters?

Wow, each to their own. I knew it was a cheesy idea but didn't think it was cringeworthy or being seen as having a defeatist attitude. Oh well, play on.

Yeah, I was. I think HT was saying that if Strauss can consolidate, it should free Bull up to move forward.

I know he's only played a handful of games, and he looks to have a long career ahead of him, but geez I'd love to see him on a half forward flank/rotating through the middle, rather than playing that kick-out role in the back line. Be patient little one!

Back in the 90's, there was a particular game where signs were given out to the crowd with 2 very strong words - "NO MERGER". Maybe the Club should arrange for something similar, but usine the words "PLEASE STAY SCULLY" or "DON'T GO TOM". The other side can be a simple Blue with a Red V. Is it going to far? Maybe. Does it have a sniff of desperation? Yes. But I strongly believe we are desperate to keep this kid, and while I don't think we should offer massive dollars to him, if he is made to feel part of the Demon Family, he'll find it hard to go anywhere. Maybe it's an idea that we should look at in Round 23 game against the Suns (our last home game for the year). I just hope he will be playing in that match becuase I'll be there!

Watts is definitely a big positive this year. Now, before the sceptics jump up and down saying that we are accepting mediocrity if we are excitied abouts Watts' games, all I wanted was to see improvement from JW this year, and that's what I'm getting. He's probably improved a little bit more than I hoped, especially over the past month. For the first time in his career, Jack has the right to go in to the preseason with great confidence and knowledge that he belongs. If he can have a big preseason, increases that weight/muscle, I think the 2012 season will be quite an exciting one. I love the kid, and watch him very closely. The one thing that has stood out for me over the past month is his potential to be a true leader, and the possibility of the Captains Tag quite realistic. On another topic, it's amazing the amount of individual players that have been listed in this thread, and how many people are saying that they didn't expect player X to take that next step. Natural development or good coaching? The biggest issue of the coach for mine is the fact that we generally have 22 individuals running out each week, and when they play that way, the team breaks down. When the 22 run out with a team mindset, the slaughter their opposition. I've said it 100's of times, I'm not fussed about our game plan (or lack of press as some would prefer to highlight), I'm confident we can create our own premiership winning game plan, and will have other teams copying us. Not playing for each other is inexcusable.

Nasher, I don't think that is entirely correct. Apart from last week, Warnock has ben playing some very good football. He is the typical big bodied full back. He is the ideal match up when the oppostion play a bigger, staty-at-home full forward (could also be known this year as the resting ruckman). In the game against Adelaide he did an excellent job against Taylor Walker, against North I'm pretty sure he played on Petrie, and against St Kilda he mainly played on Kosi when he went forward. I think you will find he won each of those contests, and quite convincingly too. As I said, last Friday night was a bad night, but I'm more than happy to give him a couple more games given his previous games performances. To say he has an inability to play as a pure defender is totally incorret. He does seem to struggle to give us that run out of the backline (compared to Frawley), but to me that must be a confidence thing or the fear of making a mistake, as when he plays at Casey, he is often complimented about the run out of the back line that he gives. With Garland out, and Frawley not at the AA form of last year, Matt Warnock stays in my team any day. I understand we have Kkey position defenders developing at Casey, but our backline is our strongest part of our team, and at the moment, having Warnock's maturity and experience down there is vital.

While a lot of that is probably correct, there are things about it that I have issues with. Yes, we have injuries, and with the personnel that it's hit, was always going to make it hard for us to overcome. But, just becuase these guys are injured, doesn't mean they are out of the game. I'd dearly love to see Grimes sitting in the Coaches box one week, I'd love to see Davey around the brothers in the rooms at half time. I want the players/leaders to take ownership of what is happening. The culture is obviosuly questionable, so I want that group of players that I listed earlier to roll their sleeves up and start building a better one. Scully is in a lot of ways a role model to the young players. While his training is not normal, he should also know where the line is in terms of what is acceptable and what isn't. While I'm not saying that all the young players have to train like he, they should know from day one that the is a difference between being an AFL player, and being a MFC player. If you don't want to put in hard, then you will find it tough. We draft blokes based on maturity and leadership qualities, they are not too young to give some form of responsibilites. The point abouth the rest of our players being average is true, but again, this can be changed. If our core 8 can lift as a unit, and ensure each of those 8 players play a t a consistent level, it will also help these average players get involved in the game more. If the 8 can get the respect of their fellow teammates, these average players will grow with confidence, knowing they are going to be part of something. I think our best 22 will, in maybe 18 months, have the ability to make top 4, and stay there for a number of years. Outside of my 8 "premiership leaders" are players such as Green, Davey, Jurrah, Jamar, Garland, Bartram, Tapscott and Gysberts. That's a total of 16 of 22 that are certain starters in our best 22. If we have 16 players playing top footy, the other 6 will naturally grow, especially if there is more competition for there spots. That's not saying that those 6 aren't average, it's saying that I'd expect an increase in performance levels. I'd like to think I don't overate our players, to give you an idea, I'm still totally unsire about Gysberts! But you're right, a lot of supporters do.

A team of 22 players, not 22 players alone.

I'm glad my post was seen as a positive! The attitude I want to see changed WYL is this "leadership group" thing. Reality is, unless someone does something unacceptable (like Moloney), the leadership group will not change for an entire season. The Captain and Vice Cpatains will still be there at the end of the year. It's not until next year when these titles may change, but there is no guarantee that they will. Sadly, 4 of the blokes I mentioned above are already in the leadership group. Of the other 4, Watts has ben trying (especially over the past month) to have an impact on the game, Scully hasn't played at all this season, Trengove has missed the last 3 weeks, and Frawley has had an up and down year. Those 4 blokes that aren't already in that leadership group need to take on leadership roles without the title - very similar to Moloney's attitude. It may require them to include Green and Davey in this entire process, which in turn may help to reignite their desire to succeed. My ideal scenario would be for those players I mentioned (Frawley, Jones, Watts, Scully, Trengove, Moloney, Sylvia, Grimes and Rivers) to be proactive. I want them to organise a meeting with Bailey, Green and Davey, and propose to them how they are going to take this Club forward. Then, once the group is formed, every player in the group is always involved, especially on match day. If a player from the group is injured (ie Grimes at the moment), that doesn't mean he can't play his role. I would like to see that group of players get together at half time and go through their indivudual and group targets. Would only take a 2 minute discussion (ie. Beamer, you're down on your clearances, so we need to work as a unit to make sure they increase over the next half). It is the perfect time for the likes of Watts, Frawley, Trengove and now Scully, to take responsibility and raise their voice. I want to see Watts show a controlled level of frustration if a teammate is letting the team down. This can only be done though, if that group know their roles, and are executing it consistently. I'm not fussed that we don't have a press like the other 16 teams. This is the game plan that the players are instructed to play, and it's what Dean Bailey thinks can win a premiership. If players don't believe in it, and therefore, don't give it any respect, how do we know that it isn't a premiership winning plan? Everyone (players and supporters) needs to stop reading about how good a press is, and give this style a go. If they can walk off at the end of the season knowing they have executed it 100%, and we continually get flogged, well, then you can say that Bailey isn't the man. This group needs to go to Bailey and give him 100% support for the remainder of the season. They then need to ensure that the rest of the playing group feel the same way. It's a lot of hard work, and it will take a fair chunk of time to get it to its most effective, but it will ensure we have a Geelong-like culture at the Club for decades to come.

You know, I have noticed the same thing too, plus he is doing it at the other 16 clubs, probably moreso with Sydney, and he still calls it "us" when talking about the Swans. Maybe he is going back there. We aren't playing as the media expected, our coach is out of contract at the end of the year, he is on a show that talks about all things AFL, and they often focus on issues as well as highlights. Maybe Jon Ralph has been approached to be an Assistant Coach? He seems to be paying a lot of attention to the things we do. Or maybe he has been told that Matt Burgan is out of contract at the end of the year.

Far out HT, that's 2 posts in 1 day. I'm going to have a shower, I feel dirty.

Read my post again Titan. What part of my post supported Dunn coming straight back in? I read somewhere that Bailey said that Dunn was a likely inclusion, and I, like you, couldn't work out why. I know what his form has been like over the past 3 years, and I'm (scratching my head) trying to work out why he is an automatic in. The best I could come up with is exactly what I posted. I'm questioning his selection, and unlike you, am trying to understadn what the FD see in him. Put it this way, we all think he is out of form, the FD have said that he is a likely inclusion, what do they know that we don't? Would they make a very simple mistake of playing a player that isn't doing what is asked? Even though we may think differently?

So DT, is it a rumour or just your theory? In you OP, you don't mention anything about a rumour, but in you past couple, that's what you are calling it. Are you the one starting it? And also, why is it just the mature players that this invovles? Max Gawn is on Twitter, so too Tappy and JT, they don't use Tom's name in their tweets. FWIW - Sam Blease and Sculldog went for a walk in the bay yesterday.

I'm sick of hearing about this "losing culture" crap. Chip; you are sick of losing? Well, so are we. How about you do something about it. My suggestion would be to grab another 7 or 8 of your mates, I'm thinking Watts, Grimes, Jones, Moloney, Sylvia, Scully, Trengove and maybe Rivers, and make a stand. Spend the rest of the season living in each others pockets, reading the Demons Rules, so that it is in your head that there is no other way to play the game. That way, you can lead this young team to the next level, and all players on the list know what the expectation is. This group can play ceratin roles, and if they are struggling, the others get in there and help him out to make sure they walk off having achieved. Realistic targets have to be set, chances are we wont win every game, but if this core group know each others individual targets (and know how their role impacts on that group achieving their targets), they will have no option but to ensure they reach it. Having a couple of mates here and there and playing your little xbox or whatever you do in your spare time is fine, but all of you need to grow up, and understand that you have the ability to win premeierships, but it's going to take commitment and sacrifices. You need to live and breath the desire for improvement, and until such times, take away things that are distracting you. There will be plenty of time for fun along the way, but at the moment, your work/life balance seems all out of whack to me, and your priorities are in a similar state. Before any of you whinge about the players needing time away from footy, this is bloody serious sh!t we're talking about. If these players that continue to Tweet to us about making a stand aren't willing to do it, then we're in a lot of trouble. I got shot down the other day suggesting a Twitter ban, well, it's not looking that drastic measure now is it? Am I carrying on? Maybe. But before any of you get up me, I'm as bloody passionate as anyone at the Club, and I want things to change. I'm sick of my team being pathetic. Ok, Bailey might have to go, I'll leave that up to those that know best, but one thing is for sure, I want the players to take a heap of responsibility. You're the ones out there making these statements and not backing them up. It will take more than a change of coach to remove this "losing culture", so why not start it this weekend players?