The Chazz

Joins a select group that has received 2 nominations. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/gysberts-wins-rising-star-nod/story-e6frf9io-1226070687386 If he plays like he did the other night for the rest of the year, he'd be in with a chance of winning it surely? Some tough opposition this year though.

No worries DC, I'll make sure I delete my line that said "we will win premierships like Geelong", and replace it with "We are ticking similar boxes to Geelong when the were developing, but it remains to be seen if we can achieve the heights that they did". Would that be less getting ahead of myself? Bugger, I can't find where I said we will win premierships. I can see where I said I think we can, but you're right, they are very hard to win. Silly me for gushing all over the place.

Doubtful. Hammy's shouldn't be rushed - strict 21 day policy/rule. Watson didn't play Friday night and that was day 20.

I would really love to know what the KPI's are that Bailey has to receive an extension. So far, it appears that everything he has said he has achieved, and also everything that the Club has told us we have done. At the risk of being shot down, not that it phases me, what about another name that hasn't been mentioned...Denis Pagan? Firstly, it's nowhere near as stupid suggestion as Dean Laidley, plus, he won 2 premierships at North, took over at Carlton when they were in a similar state to us when Bailey took over, with the main difference that Carlton couldn't handle how long they had to bottom out for and in the end gave him the a$$. He is still involved in coaching - is in charge at the Northern Knights. He was a very tough coach, had a very good record (think he's around the 62% mark, even after 3 years at Carlton). Just throwing it out there!

In terms of the gushing, all I'm doing is looking at the trends DC. The road we are travelling, and the point that we are currently at is very similar (almost exactly the same) as Geelong in their path to glory. This isn't getting ahead of myself, this is just stating a fact. However, there's stats out there that can support any arguement. But what it is also showing people is that there will be a lot of ups and downs along the way. Hopefully our final destination is the same as those that I'm comparing to. I understand the contradiction call. What I was trying to say is that while people are saying Bailey isn't a premership coach, they have just as much to go on as those who say he can be. Everyone has an opinion, but in reality, no-one bloody knows! Until either a) he wins one, or b ) he gets sacked/contract not extended, the answer will remain unknown!

Don't think Nicholson replaced Fitzpatrick did he? Thought Nicho and Evans replaced Grimes and Spencer. I could be wrong. You're correct about the point in the season when we can elevate one without the need of a LTI, but by then, I doubt we will be needing Campbell, as currently Martin is more than a sufficient replacement for Jamar, and Gawn did ok last week (well enough to play thins week). In a week or two Russian will be back any way.

Why do they?

To bring in Campbell would mean we add another player to the LTI. Do we have anyone in that situation? Calls for Petterd to come back aren't logical. Petterd has been sub-par all year, he plays one reasonable game in the reserves and people are calling for instant selection? Give me a break. Do youself a favour and watch the Inner Sanctum footage provided by Channel 7. Bailey voiced a serious concern regarding how Petterd was playing, and is obviously a reason he was dropped. He needs to do this for a couple of weeks at Casey before he gets a call up for mine.

Gush too much? What are you talking about? What part am I getting ahead of myself? The main point in my post was regarding this talk about us not playing modern football. I'm asking if in 2-3 years time, maybe it is us that is playing modern football and that other teams will be trying to copy us. It's a thought that not many have, but it's hardly getting ahead of myself? I also commented on the fact that I think Bailey is still the right man for the job. I have thought this way since his arrival, and there were clear signs on Friday night that he does have what it takes (which most importantly is a game plan that can win matches, as well as the respect from his players). Still, if it makes you feel better posting what you did, I'm happy for you to do it at my expense. I can assure you one thing, I don't get ahead of myself when this football club is concerned.

I'd be horribly surprised if Sylvia doesn't play. 10 day break, and it was only a corky. You may need to get some butter & menthols for that cough you have RR, i don't want to catch whatever you've got.

Interesting to listen to the panel yesterday on that Channel 7 AFL show comment about how Collingwood is benefitting from having 2 KPFs, and that the Bulldogs would be wishing they had an extra target other than Hall. Seems to be popular belief that having 2 bigger bodies that can play a role (they don't have to dominate) is a very important ingredient.

At what stage were you in between Bailey and Davey to know what was said? I'm sure if DB put his arm around Flash and said only 1 word, "unacceptable", that would have had just as big of an impact as going off in front of the playing group. Anyway, the biggest question I have is in regards to the way "modern football" is played, and the fact that so many think that Bailey's team aren't playing that style. My question is, "What will modern football look like in 2014"? Will it still involve this forward press? Did Collingwood play the modern football in 2007/2008/2009? I don't think they did considering Geelong's style was "modern football". It wasn't until last year that Collingwood had success with their game plan, and now it's what every other team wants to play, which has given it this modern football tag. Do I think Bailey has proven that he is a good coach, good enough to take this team to a premiership? I honestly believe so. I think the similarities between us and Geelong are frightening. The early Bomber Thompson years and the early Dean Bailey years are very similar. The way the team is developing, the results that we are achieving, albeit inconsistent this year, are almost a carbon copy of the Geelong team 2 years before their premiership. Then I have to look at the game plan to give me more evidence to use. Our losses, well, there are a number of issues when these occur, which of course Dean Bailey has to have some responsibility for. The issue I have is most of our losses is pressure and hardness. The players have it, so why don't they do it on a regular basis? Is Bailey incompetent in getting them up for every game, rather than just certain ones? I think the rest of this season will possibly answer this question. The players skill errors are things that I'm not so sure if you can question Bailey's ability over. We've seen what they can do when the skills are high, is that inconsistency a coach issue or a player issue? One thing is for sure, it's definitely a coach killer. But then, you need to take a look at our wins. Generally speaking, when we beat a team, we smash them. Why? Admittingly it's against interstate teams, but why do we [censored] the crap out of them? Is it the fact that the game plan is finally being played how it should? In closing, I don't think anyone in here can honestly say if Dean Bailey is a potential premiership coach. We aren't seeing the success and consistentcy that we'd expect, or is it that our expectations are just too high at this stage in our development? The last couple of powerhouses (Collingwood and Geelong) didn't happen over night. They both took a good 4 or 5 years of inconsistent results until it started happening. They also didn't come from as far back as what we did. As it has been pointed out before, the midfield is a vital part of success, and the "midfield that Dean built" has only played 2 games together as a unit.

They aired it on Friday night at half time, and it reignited the confidence I have in Bailey. I thought it showed that he has great belief that his game plan works, but only when the players actually execute it well. I can't remember where I heard it, think it might have been Nathan Buckley on that Channel 7 footy show on a Sunday morning, it was mentioned about Malthouse going elsewhere to coach, and the general comment was how it takes even the best coaches a minimum of 4 years at a new club to get the players that they want, playing the style that they want, as well as the off-field personnel. So, even though Malthouse is at the top of his game now, he would struggle to walk straight in to a lower team and achieve instant success. When he took over at Collingwood in 2000, he got them up to the Grand Final in 2002 (which is in his third season), and didn't win a flag until 2010. While it has been a tough year for players, coaches and us, the supporters, seeing what Bailey is like behind the scenes gives us great insight to his coaching ability. It was pretty clear on Friday night that he has the respect of the players, and when everything falls in to place, he has a very strong team that is going places. We just need the players to be consistent, which will come.

Good post Juzz, but I have an issue with the above highlighted part! You should wear something "Melbourne" win, lose or draw. I went to a BBQ last weekend (the day after the Carlton game) where I knew about 19 of the 20 people there barracked for Geelong. I wore my Melbourne polo, and copped smart a$$ comments all day. When asked if I were embarrassed to wear that, I replied with "I would call it PRIDE more than anything". Every person should know you are a Demon supporter every week. The opposition supporters that annoy me the most are the ones that I know what team they barrack for only after a win. I even have a mate who barracks for Melbourne, he too only shows his colours when we win. When you show off your colours after a loss, it makes it sooooo much sweeter to show them off after a win. Then I love comments from randoms about coming out of the wood work if we win...

No change. Why make changes for changes sake? This thread is always a frustrating one! IF Bartram is 100%, which I'm doubtful he would be, he would be considered, and maybe Evans would be the unlucky one. Bennell could play on Cracker, so the need to rush Barty back isn't drastic. Strauss may get Sidebottom.

Just re-reading our conversation Artie, and we are actually agreeing, you need KPF as targets. Where you are quoting me incorrectly (or maybe accidently), is that I never said they have to be dominant. And your above post proves my point - 2 KPF tha taren't dominant. However, in your obvious statement about the rest of the team, of course we need ball winning mids and a ruckman and FB, but a team wont win a flag with just those areas alone, they need bigger targets. No team in the last decade has won a flag that doesn't have 2 big targets up forward - reagrdless of those forwards ability. Maybe Sydney is the only exception.

Totally agree Sylv, but imagine our forward line without Watts and Cook/Jurrah. Teams with only medium size forwards do not win premierships.

Is this in reply to my post Artie? If so, read what I wrote; What key position forwards do in finals footy is provide a secure structure. Is it coincidence that at Geelong, they don't really have a dominant KPF, but their mids kick most of their goals? A KPF gives their mids a target, they kick it to them but get down there to crumb becuase they know that the KPF most likely wont mark it. It took the Western Bulldogs years to realise that they would not win a flag with Brad Johnson as their main forward, hence they went and got Hall. He did a job, but I think it was 2 seasons too late for them. I'd almost go so far to say you need 2 bigger bodies at FF/CHF in finals. Again, I'm not saying dominant, but players that can bring the ball to ground for the crumbers/mids to turn in to scoring opportunities; 2010 - Collingwood (Dawes, Cloke) 2009 - Geelong (Hawkins, Mooney) 2008 - Hawthorn (Righead, Franklin) 2007 - Geelong (Mooney, Ablett) 2006 - West Coast (Lynch, Embley/Hanson) 2005 - Sydney (Hall) 2004 - Port (Tredrea, Lade) 2003 - Brisbane (Lynch, Brown) 2002 - Brisbane (Lynch, Brown) 2001 - Brisbane (Lynch, Brown) 2000 - Essendon (Lloyd, Lucas) Want me to keep going on? Anyone that says you don't need bigger bodied KPF is kidding themselves, even in todays game. Again, they don't need to be dominant, just need to play their part and allow midfielders to kick goals. It's this view that continually is calling for me to see Stef Martin at Full Forward, especially when Jamar comes back.

I'm of the opinion that some players, mainly the senior guys (what's left of them), will have to come out tonight so that their career wont break. I;m not saying that a 40 possession game by Brad Green will make his career, but if he is seen to be pulling out of a contest, especially after a week where we were labelled with the most offensive term a football club can receive, this should/could break his career. If tonight it doesn't break, then next week will too be a test. We will be watching to make sure that it isn't a one off, so next week can potentially be another stepping stone in making this a successful team. However, if he has a great game this week, but next week does those "soft" things, then again, it has the potential to break him as a leader. This is one example of why I think this could be a make or break game. Another example could be if Strauss can replicate his good form from Casey, and put it on the big stage. While it wont break him if he doesn't, it could be a big step forward in his career to making it. That's what I mean by working out what your definitions of make and break.

It depends on what one's definition of make is, and what one's definition of break is.

Artie, I normally like your posts and often have similar views to you. I fully realise that this is a public forum, but mate, sometimes unspoken words are better. Of course tonight can be make or break. If we come out and play soft footy, it'll bloody near break any chance of the coach getting a new contract. Next week will also be make or break, and to be honest, every game for the rest of the year will be. The entire football world will be watching our games more closely than ever for the rest of the season.

Tonight might be make or break for the rest of the season, but it might be "make" for the years to come. We will have a paddock full of kids, some amazing junior talent (Scully, Watts, Trengove), this could be the game that sets up not only the future of this playing group, but everyone involved at the club. Bailey has basically got what most would cosider our best team in 4 years time, if he can get them playing inspired footy, doing those 1%ers, and playing as a team united, who knows what might happen at seasons end.

The big thing I will be watching tonight will be the attitide of the team, in particular, the senior blokes. Imagine, Howe kicks a goal within the first 5 minutes, he'll be pumped. I know Trengove will get around him, I know Watts & Jones will, but I want to see Green do it, Moloney do it, bugger it, I want to see a heap of them do it. Think back to KHunt's goal last week, they had blokes on the bench wanting to run on. That's what I want to see. I don't care if Green has to run 70 or 80m, I want him to get in there and encourage these kids. Confidence is an amazing thing, it has no ceiling.

Totally correct. I posted at the start of last year I think it was that for us to improve, our midfield need to kick more goals. However, name the last premiership side that didn't have a bigger key forward. You need them, they don't need to be influential (ie kicking bulk goals week after week), but it's almost impossible to win a flag without one. That hasn't changed for decades, regardless of what era you live in!

Also kown as living in denial. I hear that water's cold in Egypt, so don't sty in there too long. If we can have the same desired impact by not going to the desperate measures, then I'm all for it. I don't want to risk the statement not being made. BTW - my idea could have a positive effect too you know?