sue

Come on RL. I was obviously referring to the current team and the focus here on Watts. The reference was to the comment "At some stage these blokes need to get over themselves and step into the real world. Watts included." The use of the phrase 'Watts included' struck me as ironic since the discussion has been more like Watts 'exclusively'. And yes, I know why Watts is the current centre of attention.

It seems Watts only.

Don't think that has been in question. It's whether his going is neutral, a black mark against Watts and/or a black mark against the FD for letting him go. Take your pick.

Reading Binman's summary one post back of what Roos said, I'm amazed that so many on here think they know better than Roos who just has a smidgen of more inside knowledge than we do (though is honest enough to admit he 'doesn't know what's going on'). For me it raises a worrying question mark over Goodwin. I just have to hope he knows what he is doing.

1. A large part of the team, regularly criticised on this forum. 2. & 3. No idea. Don't see how it bears on the issue. I was referring to posters on this forum, not the FD. 3. Quite likely he was spoken to more than once. It seems clear that at least some of the FD are at the end of their tether or similar, did I say they weren't? Demonlands can rant all they like. But why the FD did it in public? And no, I'm not reposting my reasons why that was not a good idea.

umm, to ask is one thing. But it seems the Club said yes. Doubtless some will say the Club had already given up on him and couldn't care less what he did. I'd hope the Club is not that dumb given he was put back in the team. Assuming any of this is true of course.

I respect your views, you have not engaged in the sort of comments I was referring to. I have already said that I only was finally moved to vote 'keep Watts' in response to some of the downright nasty things others had said (lucky I'm not in the FD then). As for your 3 points that you 'know', only the first is clear cut, the significance of the other 2 are still subect to speculation until we leanr otehrwise form an authorative source. As for others not being subjected to the same standards, I was merely pointing out that there are plenty of disappointing players other than Watts who have not been subjected to the same level of scutiny and criticism. Why they are underperforming is another matter.

While many of those who think the club is better off without Watts can be seen as pro MFC, there are certainly some to whom the label of anti-Watts is more appropriate. Eg. those who apply standards to him they don't apply to other under-performing players and act as if every speculation about his behaviour is true without any evidence just because it fits their mindset about him.

Genuine question: Is there any basis for this claim or is it a speculation by the anti-Watts brigade that gets accepted as fact?

Of course if Watts is seen touring other clubs the MFC has to say something. But it could have said something like "The Club and Jack Watts have decided to explore options other than him completing his current contract at the Demons." Say no more, let others who want to speculate on why to speculate. No need to list Jack's faults (hardly a good bargaining position since making it clear he is 99% gone is information even well-informed clubs may not know for sure). Just refuse to comment further. Listing his faults publically is not good people management. If the club wants to send a message to the rest of the players, they can easily do so in private. The message sent now is that if you don't live up to expectations you can expect to be publically humiliated. Now some may think that is a good management style to motivate the team. I don't.

I'm not criticising Goodwin, but you could easily put that 20% down to the recrutiment and development in the previous years.

Many of the 'get rid of Watts' brigade here would appear to disagree since they harp on about things which are on-field.

Yes I can imagine it and it would mean SFA. Once you go down that road you are under pressure to comment on every wild rumour or alleged personality clash.

possibly but it avoids the goose-look if he stays at the club and the focus on him is distracting to the club for the entire year. Tht is why BB is right. Say nothing in pubic until a path forward is agreed. Yes, if they kept a trade under wraps until after it was done there would be supporters lambasting the club. But that would be the end of it (assuming not many head to the microwave with their memebrship cards).

Yes there would have been rumblings, but so what. What's more important, pandering to noisy impatient people or running a tight ship on these matters. I know which I'd choose however much I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the Club.

Some of the nasty comments being made about Watts here are totally over the top. I'll take the lead from the amatuer psychiatrists and suggest that a lot of that reflects some supporters taking out their anger and disappointment at the frustrations of 2017 and the fact that Watts just turned out to be a naughty boy rather than the messiah. Lots of other players need a kick up the bum, but it's always Watts Watts.... I started reading all these posts feeling pretty neutral about a trade (though sad) provided we got something good in return. But all the hate swung me to vote 'keep'. Sorry to ignore your 'facts'. But I'd feel guilty if the Club took any notice of that vote because I'd pity Watts if he stays and dares to put in a single cruddy performance. Luckily the Club will take no notice.

Yes, but reading many of the posts here you'd have to think that the other clubs which are after Watts have a model deliberately designed to ensure mediocracy for years to come and pain to their supporters.

Seems surprising that there are several other clubs who think he does. Obviously they don't read Demonland and are happy to have a player with all of Watt's defects in their team.

What a load of baloney. Anyone playing AFL is working hard. Maybe not as hard as you want, but certainly knows what hard work is.

I haven't heard the radio, but I see nothing in his comments reported here where he blames anyone else for anything. Or do you consider him saying he was surprised as a criticism of the FD? That can be read in all sorts of ways which have nothing to do with him blaming anyone.

What would some of you people want Watts to say? "I have been a slack bastard and so I'm off to a slacker club than the Demons", or "I have been a slack bastard and will mend my ways at the Demons". I reckon too many people interpret anything he says to reinforce their own opinion about him. Let's just see what happens.

What would he mean by good times other than getting to a flag? Give him a bit of slack for goodness sake.

Sorry to prolong an off-topic post, but the things you list (bolded above) as to why it is critical for GWS to succeed are why many of us think axing it and cutting losses may make more sense. But it will of course not be considered for a microsecond.

While I won't disagree with any of that, I don't see how it counters any of the arguments I made to keep Watts unless you had concluded "therefore axe him because he is such a bad influence on the rest of the group and the coach is incapable of working with/around that". Perhaps you mean that. I find that not credible. I'd add to what I said earlier, that Watts is likely to be out of contract around the time the team is GF ready (however much we hope it is in 2018) so why the rush (unless we get a really good trade deal)? Also, I don't see that his playing in the VFL would have any significant negative effects for the club as some have claimed.

If the FD/Goodwin believe Watts is, and will continue to be a bad influence on the other players, then I guess it makes sense to move him on regardless of what we get in return, or even if we pay for him to be at another club (god forbid). But what if that bad influence is not true or exaggerated? While Watts may not have the attributes to be in a GF winning team, who is he keeping out of the team that does? We have several other players who lack both GF-standard pressure and skill and are unlikely to improve in the next couple of years even if we make the finals (as we almost did this year with Watts and lots of other problems). Also, it is unlikely that some random draft pick will have those attributes in the short term, and even if they did there are plenty of other 'list-cloggers' they could replace. So unless we can swap him for a GF-style player, why not keep Watts in the team until we have more players with those GF attributes? It only makes sense to axe him if you believe he is a seriously bad influence whose effects on the group can't be minimised by a good coach. I find that difficult to believe. (I know others think otherwise.)