hoopla

Not at AFL level though, not yet anyway.

He has shown he has talent ... even though as a schoolboy he hasn't yet demonstrated that he will be able to effectively apply his talent at AFL level.

That's very interesting looking at the JMac Figures in here.

Most want him gone, let alone captain..I Hope the Club is making the right decision.

I Love Junior but i hope he can keep up with next years game.

As Captain he Must play well, & not just make up numbers.

If you play well next year junior you will be remembered as a true Legend of the Club.

I'm sure he will play well

Junior's role has been well discussed on several threads - and the debate has completely overtaken these initial views. The fact that these dated results are shown without challenge is a very good reason for the moderators to kill off this thread

IT master stroke to delist meeson and newton, meeson might not play until later in the year,and newton is a fringe player, as a rookie he is a very good backup if a another tall gets injured, and we dont have to promote jake,to cover meeson unless its the last resort, meeson will get promoted, same time next year, and newton might get delisted. why wouldnt you use pick 34 in the ND,and pass on 50 for the PSD. it makes perfect sense

Well said Vince

The first tactical decision in the draft will be whether to use picks #11 or # 18 to get Ball

Last week Bailey said we won''t take him if he doesn't want us ... today Harrington said we may use #11 to gazzump the other clubs. Was Bailey bluffing to try to get him to the PSD? Is Harrington bluffing to get another club to use an early pick?

We are in a great position to play cat and mouse over the next couple of weeks

10th-12th with around 8 or 9 wins...

We'll definitely improve. Big question is - how many teams will slide?

Who'll be below us? Port ( still some good players?); North and Richmond( the new coach factor?) Freo (Home ground advantage, Palmer back, Pav fit ?)

I hope people don't make the mistake of expecting too much from him. But I'm not holding my breath.

Ditto

Jack is several years away from his peak.

If he had been pick #25, we'd all be salivating at his obvious potential... , boy's light frame, soft hands, good balance, agile for his size, quick off the mark, poise kicking for goal, understandably a bit shell- shocked at the pace of the game.... at #25 could be anything.... exciting .......go Jack...

But as pick #1... easily brushed aside, hesitant, lacks awareness... mightn't get to 50 games........ jury's still out....come on Jack, p.y.f.o.....

Same bloke!

Give him time everyone

I reckon it's 8 spots as McLean has obviously freed up a spot also.

No, only 7. Bruce's nomination as a veteran ( in Robbo's place) does not create an extra spot on the list

Ok, so can someone explain this to me.

Both players, as mature-aged rookie, have only the one year on their new contracts? Is that right?

This would require a ruckman and KP forward to be badly injured for them to be able to play ANY football next year, LET ALONE enough to be able to retain a spot for 2011.

This is tantamount to the both of them being delisted at the end of next season. Essentially we have gotten both players as close to being delisted as we could given theri current contract situations...

Or did I miss something?

On the evidence of the last few years,we'll have more than enough injuries to keep all our rookies pretty active.

'Extended their contracts'...? So, now they are due to expire end of 2011?

Logically Cheney and McNamara at 19 will get 2 year deals. I just hope Bartram has accepted one year

Hoopla

We know that you got Meeson delisted! Have you given up on Juice?

Juice on the rookie list is OK by me.... as we still have access to his potential

You'll be pleased that Meeson is no longer a challenger to Blake's title as the worst player on an AFL list

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get rid of Bartram and Hughes. Hughes may not be the weakest rookie in the AFL - but at 23 he is 'lay down misere' as the rookie least likely to make an impact at AFL level

GC17 have the first 5 picks in the Rookie draft.

Pick 50 in the National draft > pick 6 in the rookie draft.

This is great list management.

Newton and Meesan both are very outside chances of becoming quality AFL players. Meesan more likely, but he is injured with stress fractures.

Drafting them in the rookie draft means we still these the possibility of them making it and the demons benefiting from that! Plus, now we get 2 more picks in the ND

Thanks for this ..... must agree that it is clever list management ( except for my two cloggers!)

The site does not give the terms of Bartram's , McNamara's and Cheney's contracts. Hopefully Bart's is only one year

Great result... I'm delighted we now have 7 picks in the main draft - although its disappointing that we have no scope to rookie a young tall

I will have to accept my two "list cloggers" ie Bartram on the main list and Hughes on the rookie list

Agree.

2 things I struggle with here - a) how can it be legally sound? b ) why would the AFLPA accept it?

Under the terms of the contract, the club has the option of paying a player out (just as the player has the option of retiring). As the player still gets his money - there is no reason for the AFLPA to reject it

strange in a manner that a kid whos major downside was apparently attitude is displaying much of the right type in having a go.. Chalk and cheese isnt it

Yes ....I know exactly what you mean ( though it is chalk and cheese !)

Does anybody know if MacDonald has nominated for the national draft?

If he was 22 (as reported in error somewhere) I'd look hard at him. But at 25 not sure that he has sufficient upside to warrant a spot.

1858's analysis tends to confirm that he is not really the type of player we need, particularly when you add to his list names like Green and Morton - and bear in mind that Davey and perhaps Blease may spend time as running defenders.

I don't understand why some are still throwing Bradshaw's name around.......

I think we should assess taking him when it is our turn to call out pick 18.

I would think he is good value at 18, he'll want to play for us if he gets drafted by us.

This thread was prompted by Caro's article in the Age this morning . St Kilda has said nothing - and the Hun has said nothing. It's just possible that we are all jumping at shadows.

If Caro is right _ and I think she probably is - then we've got to forget him. There's no way I'd sacrifice a good young prospect at pick 18 for a 25 year old who can't even be bothered talking to us.

The door is now open for Thorp - if he displays the right attitude at training

A bit of alarmist nonsense being perpetuated on this thread.

Yes, the AFL has to be smart when negotiating a form of free agency with the Players Association. But the fear that the league will degenerate into a Premier League style farce, is without basis. Dont fret people, it wont happen. The AFL wont let it happen.

People in the industry eg Bailey and Malthouse - and Mark Stevens - have made public statements recently that free trade is not alarmist nonsense but a real threat.

I hope you are right - that the AFL won't let it happen. But it hasn't rejected free agency yet - and I wouldn't get complacent

Please, I implore you, explain how exactly Meesen and Newton can be demoted to the rookie list...

Can't wait to hear your explanation.

Is a two step process (1) delist ( with a guarantee to re- rookie at the same salary) ;(ii) select in the rookie draft.

As stated in the thread on the new mature age rookie list ... its difficult to understand why both club and player would do it - but surprisingly it is possible this year for the first time

Unfortunately - with Hughes already listed as a mature-age rookie ( for some strange reason) , the move would limit ( or eliminate) our ability to rookie some fresh blood

Been watching some highlights on the AFL site and so far my favourites are

1. Callum Bartlett

2. Kane Lucas

3. Daniel Talia

4. Levi Casboult

5. Myles Pitt

6. Tom Scully

7. Jack Trengove

8. Ben Cunnington

I know our first 2 picks are locked but if we pick up any of the others with our next 3 picks I'll be happy.

Great list..... hadn't heard of Callum Bartlett before but he looks sensational

Given our need for talls ,the one who really interests me is Levi Casboult - big boy with very strong hands

If he had a valid contract how can he have no choice?

I guess he may have had the choice of taking his money and running ........ (Other than that I agree with you)

Just to add something to the mix.

Luke Ball is a strong intelligent young man. Why is he taking so long to make up his mind about his future? Perhaps he's working with the AFLPA to make the first legal challenge to the draft on the basis that it constitutes an unreasonable restraint of trade.

Perhaps Mick's comments are designed to cover the political ( anti Collingwood) fallout that would follow a successful challenge.

Luke - I trust you are not sufficiently disillusioned to pull a destructive stunt like that

That is only ever an option in extremely rare circumstances, the belief that this can be done whenever the club feels like it is a complete myth.

There is absolutely no incentive for a contracted player to volunteer for a demotion to the rookie list.

I'd love for Mark Stevens to be right, I cannot see how the AFLPA would accept such an arrangement though.

Got to agree with this

The only reason a contracted player might accept it - is if it comes with a guaranteed second year on the the rookie list. But why would a club already concerned about a player's progress do that?.

I kind of understand what Little Stinga is saying, and I admit that I tend to agree with him.

It's all about perception, not about what we really will do which is almost irrelevant in this case. Ball has been presented a way out with his negotiations with us, publicly even. It's not the right way to go about it, well not my opinion anyway. We should be presenting a situation where if he leaves the Saints he will end up at Melbourne regardless of whether he goes via the psd or the Nov draft and then we should sell our club going forward.

I'm not having a Bailey bash session here, I like him as a coach and think he's doing great things, but in this situation we're coming across as the 'nice guys', we need to be more ruthless than that.

The other argument is that "we have standards". We're not so bad( and so desperate) that we'll stoop to pick up someone who doesn't want us. "We are on a winning path - and if you don't like it ( or are too stupid to see it) that's your bad luck "

Ball's value is not just tied to his ability to get his hands on the footy. Much of his potential value lies in his ability to mentor the younger players . A reluctant recruit who is not naturally switched on to the challenge of climbing the ladder, is less likely to be an effective mentor - in his first season at least - than someone who has let it be known that he is not interested.

With this I mind, I think DB is quite right to say that a reluctant Luke will not be good enough for the MFC.

As long as YOU think that, thats all that matters.

OK , I'll restate it then to remove any ambiguity.

The MFC is not a fully fledged subsidiary of the MCC. The MCC will not therefore transfer funds through an offset arrangement

The idea of free agency can work in the AFL, although it depends on the system that is used.

I acknowledge that there is free agency and free agency - depending on the system used. I have some sympathy for a player who wants to finish his career in his home state - and perhaps a "free return home" option ought to be considered. Other than that - leave it as it is

In any event the AFLPA are committed to free agency in the literal sense ie after a period of service (presently 7 years) a player is free to go where he wants.

To me it is a nonsense to argue that the salary cap will preserve the evenness of the competition. The reason Luke Ball has not yet committed to Melbourne has almost nothing to do with money. He wants to play finals footy next year - and he wants to be part of a premiership team next year. Put in 7 years service - and if your team is not there or thereabouts - go to a team which is!! Free agency is effectively a feeder mechanism for the stronger clubs. How often would a good player at a strong club use free agency to get to a weaker one?

How quickly would 'dyed in the wool' supporters become disillusioned with players freely swapping clubs? " Don't exaggerate" , you say, " you'll find that players won't take advantage of free agency very often". Well then - don''t compromise a successful system for the sake of a rare exception!!

I just can't believe that so any true supporter would want James McDonald out of the side.

He is the most decorated player on our list - our only All Australian - and one of the top ten in the most recent season (per last year's B&F) despite injuries.Yes DB loves him - but so do the players. He was the standout in our democratic captaincy selection process.

He has the respect of those in a position to know - and those who think they know better - from their vantage point on the other side of the fence - need a radical change of thinking