Dappa Dan

Playing tall... I would argue that the player that "plays tall" the most out of those is Petterd. Dunn still struggles overhead and gets most of his ball up the ground. Jurrah takes a lovely mark, but body-on-body seems to juggle them pretty much every time. Bate we know about. Petterd takes some great contested marks out of position, in packs... Jurrah crumbs where a FF would bust a pack. I don't think "playing tall" is that big of a deal anymore. The Pies seem to be smashing it, and their talls aren't that great. Cloke plays up the ground, Leigh Brown is... well... Leigh Brown. Dawes is the only FF type there. If Bate takes the ball outside fifty more often, then shows the capability to kick them from outside 50 pretty regularly... Who cares how tall he plays? Ideally we'd like Bate as he is + the skill to go deep and sail over packs, take big marks, and kick bags. If Bate was this player though, he'd be the only one of his kind in the side. As it stands it's only a dip in form, coupled with increased competition for that HF spot that's taken him out of the side. Classic case of rigging stats to suit your point. - Bate has played 24-36 good games out of 82 @ 16 disposals and 1 goal. He's a KP forward who's under 25. There's nothing wrong with averaging 16+ touches as a forward. Averaging a goal a game gets you 22 goals a year. Nothing to scoff at. - He has 61 games with 1 goal or less, 74 with 2 goals or less. Since when is he required to kick 4 goals in EVERY game. His last 4 rounds of last year he averaged 25 touches, and only kicked 4 goals in that period. - Looking at your own take on Bate, a <66% percent chance on 'good' game isn't a great endorsement. So what you're saying is he has to kick X amount of goals for it to be a "good" game? Many of those games he kicked no goals in, he would have played well. I remember early on, he actually played some time in the midfield. Also, who else played better during this time? We've been incredibly bad during the last 3 years (the majority of these games), and I reckon if a forward can get anywhere near a bag in this time, they're doing ok. Some other stats for you: Dunn has played 15 less games than Bate, and has averaged about 3 less disposals, less goals, less marks, and no Brownlow votes. In his career, Bate has kick 3 goals 5 times, and 4 goals 3 times. Dunn has kicked 3 three times, and 5 once. It would take me a fair amount of time to go through the possessions stats, but I'd suggest Bate has cracked 20 touches many more times than Dunn. I'd also love to see assists. My point being, stats can be useful at times. But if you're going to just gloss over them and quote goals kicked, without a comparison to another player, without any mention of how the midfield was going during that time, without mentioning whether or not he was competing with other forwards, or was playing up the ground... then they're just useless. We watched Fevola and possibly even Riewoldt this year win Colemans in bottom placed sides. Why is this? Because these sides have no-one else to go to. Bate has played only small amounts of times inside forward fifty, and when there he's competed with Miller, Robertson, Green at times, Jamar, Neitz very early on. I agree that he's been inconsistent. His form seems to peak and trough, but then so does most players. So did Green's for the longest time. For a KP player who's only just turned 23, surely you're not expecting him to average 50 goals a year, 25+ touches and look like Nick Riewoldt? As far as I'm concerned, if he's been good at all (despite the patchiness) it's absolutely worth persisting with him. I'm not kidding when I say many outside the club rate him highly.

I went the boring 30-40. 37,777. :D

Aaaah, [censored].

What is it with demonlanders? Are we watching a different blood-nut here or something? He may be inconsistent, yes, but his good/bad patches seem to run for 6 weeks at a time. ie, once he returns from injury, he frustrates for a few weeks, dominates for about a month, then drops off again. Saying you can count on your hands how many good games he's played. How many hands do you have? The guy has played dozens of good games in the red and blue. Saying he's had only a few... It's not an opinion, it's just plain wrong. On ANY level. he's a very highly rated player in the AFL. Has been for a while now. Unless your definition of "good" games requires 30+ touches and 5+ goals. If that's the case, then fair enough. But then there are NO players on the list that can boast more than 10 games like that, so what are you complaining about? I just don't get some people sometimes. That much is true. But then Petterd has shown he's one of only a few who can reliably take marks and kick goals inside 50. Bate doesn't play this role, so it's not really fair to compare the two.

On the plus side, unless I'm mistaken, the last year GWS can exercise this right is 2012, am I right? It's going to be good when drafting returns to normal. I for one am all for the priority pick.

I think you'll find the regular posters don't always warm to him. ??? He's kicked bags, and has won games off his own boot enough to make that statement a bit off. And while he doesn't look silky smooth as a mover, does it really matter when you can kick as straight as he does over 60+ metres, and can run as fast as he does in a straight line? The end result is the important thing, and he has those results. He's not good enough as a FF because he's not a FF. As a half forward he would get a gig in all but the Cats and Collingwood lineups. He's dominated games over and over as a mobile CHF. He's a sensational lead-up target and link-man. Mobility is precisely what makes him a good player. Not sure who you're watching. Agility? You may have a point there. He's a bigger lad than most realise. You can't expect him to be as zippy as Davey when he's that tall and that heavy. Not sure why people mark him so harshly on his "turning circle." Many of the best KP fowards aroud have the same problem. Fast? - Check. Skilled? - Check. Agile? - Maybe not. But it's not so bad it can't be worked on. With all due respect mate, I always feel like slitting my wrists after reading your posts. Not in a million years. You couldn't be less right. The only things Bartram does better than Bate are, defensive matchups including spoiling and tagging (Barts is superb in this), and agility as above. Neither of which Bate is expected to excel in majorly as a HF. Bate has a 60 metre kick on him, an engine that goes all day, pace in a straight line to burn, marking prowess, though not through the air. A massive body that can withstand all but the hardest hits... Oh... And red hair. To put it in perspective, if you were asking another club for, say, pick 25-ish in a regular draft, and you said Bate... they'd jump at it as he's a KP forward, or large HF with what must be nearing 100 games, and a lot of good footy on his resume. If you said Bartram, you'd be laughed at. No disrespect to Barts, but hard working pacey defenders with bad delivery aren't as hard to find. Open your eyes, STMJ. Bate is a super AFL footballer when he's on. He's done it over and over. No-ones asking for a leap of faith here, or for you to look at his potential. He has the runs on the board. Who says he needs to do this? He's played some very good footy as a rangey HF. Why do you suddenly insist he has to be the next Fev? Unfortunately due to Jack looking so damn impressive as a HF link-up man, we now have 3 very good HF targets, but no big bodies inside fifty. This isn't Bate's fault. Famous last words. The minute we have a crisis in the forward line (you know, like the one we were having up until 3 weeks ago?), these boards will be begging for a Matty Bate target.

Yeah WYL, that was actually the reason I gave it a minute more thought than I would have otherwise. Had you asked me after round 1, I'd have been wholly against it. Given that it seems Bailey is as secure in his job as you could imagine, he's actually a sensible candidate for an ex-senior coach as an assistant, should he be open to it. Like I say, just an idea, and you wouldn't just appoint him without getting Dean's 100% approval. In fact, you'd probably hesitate in floating the idea to him if you were Stynes, or Schwab or whoever. You're right of course. No reason to change a working recipe.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/100247/default.aspx Now I'm not advocating recruiting Dean... Mostly because of the questions it'll raise in the media. But it got me to thinking. Let's assume for a minute that all coaching appointments in Victoria have been made already for 2011. If Dean, as he says in the article, is looking to take another senior job in the future, he's going to need another place to work for a year. Would being in the box on match day with Bailey help the club? Or help Bailey in some small way? Much as I love me some DB, I have questioned on a couple of occasions his match-day decisions. Would it tear at the fabric of a working model too much? Confuse/dilute the message? My feeling is, if it 'aint broke... But you have to admit it is interesting to consider. On the other hand, Laidley could end up at a Geelong in 2012, and have insights into our side that no other coach enjoys.

I'd take Bate in a second over Miller. Bate's a good player. Out of form sure, but say what you like about him, the kid can play, and would stroll comfortably onto any list in the AFL for the right price... no matter what the sookie know it alls on here think. If we got anything lower than 25, it'd be a loss. And considering they were only going to offer a couple of picks in that range for Ablett, you'd have to assume we'd cop a loss here. But whatever. Worry about it when it's official.

Good post. It's not POSSIBLE they won't fit. It's a certainty they won't. What I like to consider is that no team is made up solely of these 5 A-grade players. A bunch of B-graders will achieve nothing of note without their 5 big names (Daniher era). Likewise a bunch of highly paid superstars need a team around them or they will be the bridesmaids every year (Saints under Thomas). I reckon if we say we need 8 names for a starting midfield with rotations, then we're kidding ourselves. I reckon we need to recruit 16 serious names... of Jones' quality and up. Some will start promisingly, and drift away to mediocrity. Some will start with no hope, then surprise everyone and show a lot, like Bail. You gave 14 names above, all who have shown plenty, or have plenty of promise. I would add Maric (up until recently) as another long shot. Tapscott might possibly play a forward/midfield role. And I remember Bartram played some ok footy out of the guts, though a return there seems unlikely (hard tag maybe?). Let's not forget we will likely land a few more midfield names next season. I hear me might be turning over our rookies completely too. But I digress... Personally, I'm pleased with where our midfield is headed, and how we've recruited as a whole. I think we have just the right blend of hard working inside mids like Jones... and the class outside players. I can't help but feel we need one more Scully/Trengove quality youngster... but for all we know Blease and Tapscott could be that. I don't reckon there's any need for concern to be honest. Jones more than has a place in the squad. And at this stage of development, we're not asking him to show he's a Brownlow winner. Just that he can play his role week-in-week-out. Which he does.

I don't buy THIS for a second. I used to think the same thing, until I was shown some information by a poster on here. I did some research into body types at the time and found something like this: http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/bodytypeinformation.html I remember studying it at school, and Cale fits the "Ectomorph" type to a tee. Also, I hear that since he's been a the club he's done nothing but eat and train. He's just making very, very slow progress. He should talk to his brother, who actually played pretty well on the weekend and is actually pretty damn big these days. You are right about his defensive skills. I hear rumblings from good sources that Cale has gotten a bit ahead of himself. Take from that what you will.

Did you look at the game analyser link above? It'll give you the fix in the meantime. Just thought of another one. Leading into Jurrah's last goal, Bennell got a kind bounce and then burnt off Webberley like he was a ruckman. At that point Jamie had been moved to defence as he was just about our only player that could keep up with Hicks, who is just about as quick as I've seen in a straight line. If pace is the new must-have in the AFL, Bennell will go far.

I didn't watch the replay on Foxtel, but is it possible they take away certain non-plays to cram 2 hours and 10 minutes of footy in to just 2 hours?

Beamer nearly missed one early, didn't he? Got off at the tribunal I think. Or at least got it downgraded.

I've missed a lot of our footy this year, but that was the goal of the year that I've seen us drill. I've noticed that in the last month or so, we've won games but not had the highlights that other teams have enjoyed. Which is neither here nor there, of course. Other highlights: Bail's 360 and run full tilt drill it to Watts who goals. Dunn's 55-60 metre goal that was never going to miss, halfway up the goal posts. He never looked like passing it off. Looked every bit the mature 100-game CHF for about a minute there. Dunn's non-goal. And Watts goal that wasn't paid. PJ not being awarded an obvious mark, then getting up after the spoil and slamming a Tiger into the turf.

Welcome to the darks side. :D That's my feeling. And even if we're wrong, which very well could be the case, you HAVE to give a player who works as hard as he does, never misses a game and has shown improvement, albeit only steady, every chance. You just have to. I would put my house (if I had one) on the fact he'll play 200+. I reckon he'll play 250. Who's glass half empty now? Just having some fun. As always you make good points. At the end of the day we can see what he is as a player. What he's going to be, no-one can say to a certainty. It's all crystal ball gazing, whichever way you look at it. He's going to be interesting name in a few years when the stakes are MUCH higher, and the pressure for spots is immense. And in that respect, your original point that his dropping is a good thing, is probably shown as being absolutely right.

Nope. 57 point belting. Why? Because that would mean we're 1 point up on them this year, AND we'd take over their spot in the 8. The winning margin needed for that is 53 points. Oh... And find the footage of Hutchie's comments on Youtube and put them in the pre-match promo. Just to hammer the point home. Time to be ruthless. Only way to win at least pride. Say what you like, when they're up they're a devastating footy side.

Garland to Buddy. Buddy gets doghnuts. JMac 28 touches. Jordie 11 tackles.

That's my feeling too. Why do you think I bumped this three weeks before the season is over? I think that "time on his side" thing may apply, but only relegate him to the bench. At the same time, its gonna be hard for them to ignore the stat I read on here the other day, that only two players have kicked 3 goals on him this season. I think Riewoldt and Fev. That's pretty compelling, considering he's actually known for his run and rebound from defence. I would like to see what stats the other defenders have in comparison. Lake's had an amazing year. Scarlett's missed a lot of footy. Grundy has dropped off and is behind Chip now. Who else?

I said it in another thread. In just half a dozen performances he's gone from depth player, to probably behind Frawley and Grimes, our third most important defensive player. Maybe fourth depending on where you place Garland. I reckon it's a testament to the coaching department particularly. The way I see it, he's a fantastic story to show the kids coming through on what to do when confronted with weaknesses in your game. The first thing: Prepare religiously, which he has a reputation for doing. He's a hard worker, a serious career footballer, and one of our more desperate competitors. This is the first thing to look for, and it's easily identifiable. The second thing, hope you have a coaching panel that can identify his weaknesses, inform him of them, and then explain what he has to do to rectify them... and if he can't rectify them, explain what role he has to play to work around them, and hope he takes to the role with some sort of excitement and adrenaline. ie, Dunn was a forward who couldn't seem to confidently take a contested overhead mark. His kicking was iffy at the start of the year, and he drifted in and out of games when he played deep. But he has pretty good pace and balance for a big man, and his kicking range is superb. So what do you do? Bravo to the coaching department for identifying both an area the team had a deficiency in, and a role that fit Dunn's skill set like a glove. In terms of supporters, we'd do well to look at Dunn as a cautionary tale. You could count on one hand the players on the list who don't have weaknesses. In fact I can think of only Trengove and Sylvia who don't have glaring holes in their game to overcome (injury aside). All the other guys, who frustrate the armchair experts, should be given the chance over the space of a few seasons to find a defined role. Players like PJ likewise should take heed. PJ has strengths, like running, pretty sound kicking for goal and in the field. But he can't mark and is variable in his tapwork. I have a sneaking suspicion the footy department have stuck fat with him because, like Dunn, they see a defined 15-22 game role for him in the side. This probably goes for a dozen players on the list. I love that the club is sticking with kids that show something, instead of crucifying them the moment they disappoint. It means players who come to the demons through draft or trade KNOW they'll be given every opportunity. Another feather in DB's cap.

Hmm. I'd say Trengove it's only a matter of time. I would say earliest 2012. But certainly before 2015. Watts we're going to have to wait a number of years. Scully... I may have to beat you to the punch here and say 2011. MAYBE. Also. Grimes, had he not gotten injured, would be in the squad this year and will be knocking on the door every year for the next 5-8, injury permitting.

Yep. Just out of interest. When you say you predicted it, was it off the cuff? I predict half a dozen Red + Blue AAs every year. In this case though I felt it was necessary to start a thread. You know. For posterity, and because clearly I'm a bit up myself. Someone has to fill the void since Y_M got booted.

Get your own thread! Steal my thunder why don't ya...

Whoa. I completely missed that. 4 in a row, our best since 2006, and beats the three in a row from early in the season.

Big, self-serving, up-itself bump. Saw Hutchy on Footy CLassified last night say that Frawley is an absolute certainty for All Australian. HA! The first part was right. Could happen... :D